Ken, are you saying you have a place on your application for race, gender, etc? now THAT'S illegal!

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys, any issue that speaks to the character of a
> player, his upbringing, family life, finances,
> manner of living, past, present and future,
> discipline, toughness, mental state, or infulences
> is a valid question. Especially with what's
> potentially riding on these decisions.
>
> In my profession, we ask potential employees many
> such questions and crawl up their collective rear
> ends during back ground checks. We talk face to
> face with everyone that lives in their
> neghborhood, look up and talk to all of their
> previous employers, refrences, teachers, and
> listed friends. We ask about, and then look at,
> the internet sites they frequent, do credit
> checks, criminal history checks, check cell phone
> records, conduct physicals, psyhological exams,
> multiple face to face interviews, voice stress
> tests and much. much, more before you ever get
> hired...and thats for a $38,000.00 a year job.
> Some would say that this much stuff is not
> nescissary or prudent but even with all of these
> things in play prior to getting hired,
> knuckleheads do get through the process.
>
> Some questions simply need to be asked even if
> they are not politically correct to ask.
>
> We also don't know what the context of the actual
> question was or even how the original question was
> phrased.
>
> BTW: I'm NOT defending anyone here but I'm also
> not saying that the question should not have been
> asked either...
>
> The question was asked, thought better of, then an
> appology was issued...that's enough for me. If Dez
> didn't think it was a question worth answering
> then he has the right not comment on the matter.

Ken

Wether or not his mom is a prostitute has nothing to do with his character. I to work in an organization that does pretty extensive background checks. I would argue the point that our background is probably a little more agressive than yours. But we concentrate on the person and not the persons parent It is true that our surroudings has a lot to do with our personality but I can't think of any instance when this line of questioning is appropiate. Let's keep the job discription in prospective here.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken, are you saying you have a place on your
> application for race, gender, etc? now THAT'S
> illegal!

Absolutely not illegal.

it is in many states, and according to the eeoc verboten. and an very good way to get yourself sued if you don't hire the person (because the reason MUST be the box they checked on that application)

Almost every application has a question perteining to race gender etc. It is illegal to force someone to answer it but it is not illegal to ask. It is used for several reasons, among them so company's can keep track of how many females vs males they hire to ensure they are not preceived as sexist and to comply with federal laws. I can list several reasons but I won't bore you. I am sure you can google it

this info may be collected but in some states it is illegal to ask the applicant about their race, etc, and even where it is collected, per the eeoc it shouldn't be part of an employment application but should be kept separate

anyway back to the original point, asking if Dez's mom is a ho is not illegal. but having a parent who may be a criminal is not a protected calss

I was not saying my organization does not do extensive background checks for illegal activities, but it only pertains to the applicant not to their family. However the applicant must allow for the background check to be done. I could not ask these types of questions in an interview process due to eeoc, nor would I want to ask such a question. The only questions I ask during an interview is to find out if they have the skills and abilities to do the job at hand. If I were to ask questions about a candidates family I would most likly be called to our HR department and either be disciplined for my actions or terminated and the company I work for could be sued for my actions.

ranger1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guys, any issue that speaks to the character of
> a
> > player, his upbringing, family life, finances,
> > manner of living, past, present and future,
> > discipline, toughness, mental state, or
> infulences
> > is a valid question. Especially with what's
> > potentially riding on these decisions.
> >
> > In my profession, we ask potential employees
> many
> > such questions and crawl up their collective
> rear
> > ends during back ground checks. We talk face to
> > face with everyone that lives in their
> > neghborhood, look up and talk to all of their
> > previous employers, refrences, teachers, and
> > listed friends. We ask about, and then look at,
> > the internet sites they frequent, do credit
> > checks, criminal history checks, check cell
> phone
> > records, conduct physicals, psyhological exams,
> > multiple face to face interviews, voice stress
> > tests and much. much, more before you ever get
> > hired...and thats for a $38,000.00 a year job.
> > Some would say that this much stuff is not
> > nescissary or prudent but even with all of
> these
> > things in play prior to getting hired,
> > knuckleheads do get through the process.
> >
> > Some questions simply need to be asked even if
> > they are not politically correct to ask.
> >
> > We also don't know what the context of the
> actual
> > question was or even how the original question
> was
> > phrased.
> >
> > BTW: I'm NOT defending anyone here but I'm also
> > not saying that the question should not have
> been
> > asked either...
> >
> > The question was asked, thought better of, then
> an
> > appology was issued...that's enough for me. If
> Dez
> > didn't think it was a question worth answering
> > then he has the right not comment on the
> matter.
>
> Ken
>
> Wether or not his mom is a prostitute has nothing
> to do with his character. I to work in an
> organization that does pretty extensive background
> checks. I would argue the point that our
> background is probably a little more agressive
> than yours. But we concentrate on the person and
> not the persons parent It is true that our
> surroudings has a lot to do with our personality
> but I can't think of any instance when this line
> of questioning is appropiate. Let's keep the job
> discription in prospective here.


Ranger: I absolutley agree with you and anyone else as far as keeping the job description in mind goes. But, whether or not he has criminal acquaintances and routine associations with criminals does speak to his character. We (employers) shouldn't get carried away with these kind of questions however.

Agree at the end of the day it comes down to the person and the opinion of the investigator.

Back to the topic, I think Ireland was out of line, I think Dez handled it well, Ireland apologized, Dez accepted. Conclusion..........dead issue.

As for the writer....Idiot he could of done so much more with the article

Dolfan1976 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was not saying my organization does not do
> extensive background checks for illegal
> activities, but it only pertains to the applicant
> not to their family. However the applicant must
> allow for the background check to be done. I could
> not ask these types of questions in an interview
> process due to eeoc, nor would I want to ask such
> a question. The only questions I ask during an
> interview is to find out if they have the skills
> and abilities to do the job at hand. If I were to
> ask questions about a candidates family I would
> most likly be called to our HR department and
> either be disciplined for my actions or terminated
> and the company I work for could be sued for my
> actions.

exactly

Guys Ireland wasn't asking for any other reason than because he was looking for some fun after the interview. Actually he was asking on behalf of Bill. That is part of Jeff's job description.

In all seriousness, admittedly it wasn't the most appropriate thing to ask, but I hardly think it deserves a firing. I would wait to see the results of the draft before doing that. LOL. Players do a lot worse and get way more chances than that. He deserves an opportunity to learn from his mistakes too. It isn't as if he killed someone, raped someone, was out drunk driving or beat his wife. He asked a stupid question. Good lord, don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

By the way, if there were a rumor that his mother was a prositute and it was getting coverage, I might want to know if it wasn't true so I could refute it after I draft you.

Absolutley...you have to look out for the legitimate interests of the organization.

“Repeatedly kicking him in the teeth once he was down” is open for interpretation, but the clause seems to evoke what would probably be intention to cause grievous bodily harm.

So you’re advocating for assault, and/or battery, and/or crimes of violence, et al. (And against Jeff Ireland no doubt).

Would you be in support of Bryant actually having murdered Ireland? You would consider it justified homicide right?

It’s curious, but, you claim that you are sure, you “know,” that you “would have” committed violent crimes in such a scenario (presumably), I wonder, just how do you suppose? Do you have empirical evidence of these reactions? Is committing violent crimes usual behavior for you in stressful situations?

It’s all ghoulish really.

yeah that's a standard interview question 'is your mom a hooker'. Ireland showed he has as much class as a swine. I see has manned up and apologized, good, time to move on.

Once again I will first state that it wasn't a very appropriate question, but hardly deserves Ireland's firing. Cut with the sensitivity crap. I am so sick of everyone worrying about someone's fragile little psyche. Toughen up people.

>eesti wrote:
>
>Quote:
>Ranger1
>Almost every application has a question perteining to race gender etc. >It is illegal to force someone to answer it but it is not illegal to >ask.

>It doesn't make it right. Is anyone naive enough to believe that there >isn't some redneck sitting somewhere reviewing these hypothetical >applications that would deny someone for "not answering" because they >might not be a Babtist or... whatever?

>What it comes down to is right and wrong, common decency and not using >your position of power to act "above the law".

You really are paranoid and I am sick of the double standard. Stop thinking white people are so antagonistic towards blacks. In fact, the race selection boxes are there for quite the opposite reason. It is that opposite reason that I think it shouldn't be there so I agree. Get rid of demographic questions. They ultimately perpetuate race issues by recognizing differences. And as for the double standard. What if I reversed the scenario. What would that make me in your eyes? How outraged would you be? With that one line you showed that you are a hipocrit.

With that having been said, I support the right for you to say anything you want, whether I agree or not. I am not too sensitive to deal with it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2010 02:36AM by Jonathan Twilley.

> The problem some of you Ireland defenders (kool-aid drinkers) are ignoring is the most basic principle of harmonious human interaction.

You’re clearly part of a mob rules mentality, all the while carping on “harmonious human interaction.” Kinda scary really.

> Is it illegal to ask the question? Who cares? It is a deeper question than that.

Who cares if it’s illegal? You don’t?
You’re smearing Jeff Ireland for a “deeper” question? Like, a philosophical question?

> What was the purpose of the question? There is only one. To solicit a response. With all their millions and background research into a multi-million dollar investment, do you think Ireland didn't already know the answer? Puhhhlease!

So you’re not really sure of the purpose of the question? You’re guessing that there is only one purpose for asking it. And based on that rudimentary guess, you’re taking it upon yourself to castigate Jeff Ireland.

> This just reflects the typical kool-aid drinking public. If you perform well enough, it doesn't matter what you do or how you do it. Give me 20 sacks a year and you can rape the janitors daughter...as long as it isn't the senators or a large contributing alumni booster.

Jeff Ireland IS NOT being charged with a crime. Jeff Ireland HAS NOT been accused of rape.

> Fix the economy and I don't care how many people you harm...as long as they are 3000 miles away... and a different color and I get my gas cheaper.

I’m not even sure what this is supposed to mean. Sounds like some political point in there. Probably more philosophy of destruction, destruction for “harmonious human interaction”

> Rebuild our team in three years and I don't care how many of my ideals or heroes you disrespect...just give me that damn ring so I can wear my jersey "proudly" again.

Ohhhhhhh. You’re biased against Ireland because of “heroes” you’ve perceived that he’s disrespected.

> It is easier to apologize than to ask for permission...right?

> Quote: seadevil
> “Former idiot kicker?” “Douche bag?” Really? Seriously? Jeff Ireland? Come on > eesti, settle down, you and I both know we should thank our lucky stars for this > guy. For all three of em.

> This is exactly the mentality I am talking about...


Who knows what any of that means?

It’s funny, you’re part of a super majority here, and yet, you’re accusing me of drinking Kool-Aid.



I haven’t read the rest of your edict, but I did see that you’ve used an epithet. Should you be fired for that?

The guy opened his mouth and the wrong thing came out. How many of you on this board can say that has never happened to you in the course of your life? I'm not defending him, but he's already done the appropriate thing, and apologized to the person he wronged. He doesn't owe us squat, he owed Bryant. The problem here is you guys are tying different situations together and making a bigger issue out of a single occurrence. Ireland is in a high profile position, and he's going to make mistakes along the way. If any of you are expected him to be fired over mistakes of this caliber, don't hold your breath. It's not gonna happen.

On another note, if I was the one conducting that interview, I simply would have asked Bryant to explain everything he went through with his mother, and waited to see if he omitted anything. If he did, instant red flag.

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The guy opened his mouth and the wrong thing came
> out. How many of you on this board can say that
> has never happened to you in the course of your
> life? I'm not defending him, but he's already done
> the appropriate thing, and apologized to the
> person he wronged. He doesn't owe us squat, he
> owed Bryant. The problem here is you guys are
> tying different situations together and making a
> bigger issue out of a single occurrence. Ireland
> is in a high profile position, and he's going to
> make mistakes along the way. If any of you are
> expected him to be fired over mistakes of this
> caliber, don't hold your breath. It's not gonna
> happen.
>
> On another note, if I was the one conducting that
> interview, I simply would have asked Bryant to
> explain everything he went through with his
> mother, and waited to see if he omitted anything.
> If he did, instant red flag.


Good points Odenn, although I am not sure it doesn't lead to consequences for him. I hope not. With the hypersensitivty of so many people you just never know. I kind of think it is refreshing. I like people who say what they mean and mean what they say. I can't stand it when people skirt around things. The only reason it is a problem is because so many people allow things to upset them. Everyone is so child-like now days. He hurt my feelings!!! Boo-hoo. Here's what I have to say to Dez and all you other cry babies. "Rub some dirt on it!"

Seadevil, I wasn't originally going to respond to you, but I'm feeling saucy at the moment, so let's do this.

“Repeatedly kicking him in the teeth once he was down” is open for interpretation, but the clause seems to evoke what would probably be intention to cause grievous bodily harm."

I'm not sure if you're familiar with exaggeration, but if I were you I'd google it to be safe.

"So you’re advocating for assault, and/or battery, and/or crimes of violence, et al. (And against Jeff Ireland no doubt)."

I'm saying Ireland deserved to be punched in the mouth because this was a question intended to provoke a reaction, and he would have gotten one out of me.

Gotta hand it to Dez...do you think Lawrence Taylor or Warren Sapp would have just taken that? Ireland is lucky he didn't have to make an emergency trip to the dentist.

"Would you be in support of Bryant actually having murdered Ireland? You would consider it justified homicide right?"

Not even going to address this...it's that stupid.

"It’s curious, but, you claim that you are sure, you “know,” that you “would have” committed violent crimes in such a scenario (presumably), I wonder, just how do you suppose? Do you have empirical evidence of these reactions? Is committing violent crimes usual behavior for you in stressful situations?"

You should be in law school, man. That is some serious word manipulation. And it's only a crime if you get caught, but I've been known to punch an asshole in the jaw when he deserves it. (Ask my roommate.)

"It’s all ghoulish really."

It's actually all exaggeration, but you go ahead and get your kicks. (no pun intended)

This story is picking up steam. Ross has now said he's going to deal with the matter personally. Sometimes people F up and have to pay the price no matter how good they might be at their job.

Sorry, but you cannot justify in any way, shape, or form, asking a potential employee if their MOM was a hooker.

I know we live in an era of uber-political correctness, but this is rediculous! Anything to sell print and fuel boring talk shows.
How else do you expect Ireland to find out first hand the truth. Because the truth WILL come out about his mother's background.
In todays age, there is no more "personal" information when you become a multi-million dollar face of an NFL franchise.
Not only does it reveal critical info about his associations and make-up, but it deciphers the truth from rumors.
How will Dez react to the not-so-polite fans when we roll through NY, Buffalo, and Boston every year. Will he meltdown or keep his composure?
I can only imagine what he'll be hearing from the stands when he gets to Philly, DC, and NY. It will be interesting to see if Dez gets hooked by the fans or not.

I really like Jeff Ireland and what he brings to this organization.
This whole BS story is being WAY over-sensationalized by the media, but what else is new.

I agree. It is one thing to ask the guy if his mom was a hooker.....whatever. It would be different if he called him a N***** and never apologized.

word. I agree