It’s really hard to build a winning NFL team with sticky glue and paper-clips.

This regimes plan, when it comes to the most important position in the league, is to stand pat with Henne and see what else falls in their laps. Granted, they got really lucky with this “strategy” one year with Pennington, but it’s a prescription for failure 95% of the time.

The moves they’ve made so far look transparently knee-jerk IMO. Jettison Ricky and Ronnie, get a speedy RB who spends more time on the sidelines in street clothes than in the huddle, and hope this collegiate second-coming of Marion Barber can carry the rock to glory.

To infer, even sarcastically, that Ireland is a genius is blatant homerism and punishable with shattered dreams littering the prescription athletic field. It’s OK to admit reality and understand we have a second-rate football franchise – and have had one for MANY YEARS. Losing and dysfunctionality isn’t something new in these parts – it’s become engrained in the so-called “culture.”

Last year we saw the rubber band snap back to harsh reality mode – this after the prior “disappointment” which followed the one-year miracle with Pennington and a super cushy schedule. This team is still a number of drafts away and has NOT capitalized on the down years the way franchises on the rebound do.

Here we are, 12-YEARS AFTER MARINO, scrambling in the trash heap to find a QB. Yet AGAIN! That’s just utterly shameful and inexcusable…

OMG I think BNF is making more sense than Phinsfan2. I think I am going insane in the membrane.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes they targeted Orton...at their price: No more
> than a 3rd..and preferably a 4th. Not their
> fault that Denver wouldn't take that offer and
> demanded a 2nd. But kudos to them for not
> panicking and overpaying (ala AJ Feeley and Daunte
> Culpepper) for a guy that is a stop gap option and
> not a long term solution at QB and who might not
> even beat out the guy we have already.
>
> Its exactly what I hoped they'd do and what I'd
> have done as GM.
>
> Now you've called Denvers bluff and forced them to
> cut Orton or restructure a bunch of contracts to
> be players in free agency.
>
> If they cut Orton...great...wee have a shot at him
> for no picks.
>
> If they don't, we still have Henne and we have all
> our picks to move up for a QB next year if Henne
> fails.
>
> Works for me.


Once again I 100 percent agree PF2, this is geting scary,
One more thing, I am not convinced they wanted to pay Orton anymore then they just paid Moore... Ultimately I think that is the problem as well. They cant not put themselves in a situation where they pay a back up 6 million a year if Henne plays well..

I'm on team phinsfan/Crowder, this move is ok imo. Sink or swim with Henne

guys, orton thew for 40+ TDs vs just 20 ints the past 2 years. IN what way is he not clearly better than Henne? He is worth a 3d round pick, and 5mm a year or a little more. I doubt he was demanding 10mm a year. We just paid Moore 2.5 million a year; Orton is more than 2x the QB Moore is, we should have paid him that way

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> guys, orton thew for 40+ TDs vs just 20 ints the
> past 2 years. IN what way is he not clearly better
> than Henne?


In every stat but that and the long Ball, you already know Henne beats Orton.... Orton was horrible at 3rd down conversions. Normally if you are not good on third downs you dont win to many games for your team... How many wins did Orton have last year? I am pretty sure it was less wins then Henne

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> guys, orton thew for 40+ TDs vs just 20 ints the
> past 2 years. IN what way is he not clearly better
> than Henne? He is worth a 3d round pick, and 5mm a
> year or a little more. I doubt he was demanding
> 10mm a year. We just paid Moore 2.5 million a
> year; Orton is more than 2x the QB Moore is, we
> should have paid him that way


Well, he's much worse than Henne on 3rd downs, for one thing.

And he was supposedly demanding $8M a year before the Kolb deal was announced. And with Kolb getting a deal worth $12M a year, why wouldn't Orton ask for $10M a season? He's making $9M this season. Why would he settle for a deal that pays him $5M?

If Orton is so easily worth a 3rd round pick, why didn't Arizona make that trade with Denver? Why aren't teams lining up to get him? We were the only team seriously pursuing a trade for Orton. If Denver was not negotiating with anyone else, why would we up our offer? Where is the demand for his services? If his TD/INT ratio was a clear indicator of his skill, why would Denver go after Tebow?

Good signing IMO.
-He's young.
-Knows our system
-Has NFL experience.
-Didn't over pay for him.

I owned orton in fantasy and can tell you they pulled orton off the field plenty of times inside the 5 yardline for Timmy Boy to run it in, or Orton would have had even more TD passes than he did.

If Henne is so great then why did the FO say it was a priority to get someone to "push" him (polite speak for "replace" him). And now we are to believe Matt Moore is that guy?

If (???) Henne fails and portly pigs fly…

IMO there’s ZERO DOUBT Henne has already failed and that’s just a NFL football fact. And all we’ve done in the entire off-season is throw more rusted scraps of metal on the junk pile. Of course there’s always the possibility Henne turns into a legit NFL QB, and the amazing ineptitude he demonstrated last year was a fluke in his excellent NFL career. But the odds of that are rather laughable IMO, and you do NOT risk the fate of the team on a highly suspect “cornerstone.” That’s inviting an implosion IMO.

I believe this regime has mismanaged the most critical spoke in the wheel and the overwhelming odds are there’s a bad accident right around the corner. I hope we get “lucky” with Henne, but that bet is a loser 9 times out 10.

Last, I never wanted us to be in this position to begin with. I wanted QB's (at least 2) drafted. Obviously Santa didn't listen and now we get to see what their "solution" provides.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2011 08:47AM by BigNastyFish.

the only upside is if/when henne sh*ts the bed, Moore will be just as bad, so we have a shot at luck. the plan all along?

Pre-disposing a season that hasn't even been played is not a viable strategy (re: playing for "Luck".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2011 08:57AM by BigNastyFish.

You guys know that I have been Henne's number 1 supporter on this board. That said I was or am enthusiastic about bringing Orton in for a true competition. This crap about getting Luck in next year's draft is stupidity. Orton makes more sense.

That said again either the Dolphin organization is stupid or insane in signing Matt Moore.

They are insane if they chose him instead of Orton.

They are just merely stupid if they chose him to replace Thigpen. Don't get me wrong, he is not a bad choice for third string behind Henne and Orton. The stupidity is in the timing.

In an attempt to drive down Orton's bargaining power, they sign Matt Moore.

The stupidity is that it might have the opposite effect and have Oton think that the Dolphins are not serious and have him sign somewhere else.

It was stupid not to sign Orton first and then sign Matt Moore.

Of course, that is assuming Berk and BNF are not correct and that the delusional fools really put enough stock in Henne that they are convinced right now, that he's the QB of the Future.

And even I ain't convinced of that!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2011 09:00AM by ChyrenB.

I don't want to burn picks on recycled trash...

Orton isn't “trash,” but the time to burn draft picks on the QB position is IN THE DRAFT, not in the trade market. That's the way I believe you build a solid team 9 times out 10.

These idiots continuously stack the odds against us…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2011 09:09AM by BigNastyFish.

the reports are that Den wanted a 2 or 3 and we were offering a 4 or 5. I haven't heard Den would only take a 2. I can live with spending a 3 on Orton, and if he flames out, so be it. But all this to avoid spending a 3 over a 4? That is bush league. If MIA though he was a good enough QB for this team at a 4th round price, then a 3d should not have stopped them.
our last few 3d rounders---J Jerry, P Turner, L Booker, D Hagen---I mean WTF?

Yea, our 3rd round history is not exactly spectacular!

Pretty sad actually.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2011 09:34AM by BigNastyFish.

PF2 you are talking like Orton has been signed by someone else. Has he?

If not, I totally disagree with you (the apocaloyse is over). It makes no sense to try to chisel Orton down and risk losing him. A 3rd is a no brainer and money.....what's it worth in terms of the success of the franchise?

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BigNastyFish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > These idiots continuously stack the odds
> against
> > us…
>
>
>
> Yeah, but they did exactly what you just
> suggested. Save your bullets for when it
> counts.
>
> Now we'll have to see if Ireland is his own man or
> is married to the Parcells blue print when the
> 2012 draft rolls around.
>
> But at least he's put himself in a position to do
> the right thing in a draft that has 2 or 3 guys
> that can be franchise QB's.


dude it is day 1 of camp and we are already looking forward to next year's draft?? that's all you need to know about the job the FO did this off season

I think today is the day I have stopped drinking the kool aid

So all of you fantasy GMs, would you of been ok with Orton at the cost of a 2nd rnd pick and 8 mil a year? You guys keep saying we should of got him for a 3rd, but everything I've read said Elway wanted no less then a 2nd. And why would Orton agree to 5 mil a year when he's gonna make 9 this year? The deal wasn't there, get over it.