tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The worst option to me is tading a #2 for Albert
> and paying him Jake Long $$$
>
> I agree. Even if he is an upgrade over Long, I
> don't think there's that much difference in
> today's game between a serviceable LT and an elite
> one. Maybe for the Broncos going after one big
> season with relatively immobile Peyton. But not
> us...
>
> And, McKinnie is a good stop-gap idea

***************************************************

I don't see Albert as an upgrade over Long.

It would be stupid for Ireland to make this deal; if he is even thinking that, he should have just kept Long.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Just saw on NFLN that compensation IS NOT the
> > holdup for the trade. It is Miami insisting
> they
> > will only give up 54 instead of 42. Miami is
> said
> > to be ok paying 8 mil per year.
> >
> > Cardinals and SD are now in the RUMORED trade
> > talks. AZ can offer #38 and SD has the 45th
> pick.
>
>
> Its that time of the year when 90% of what you
> hear is BS.
>
> gotta love it.
>
> I hope AZ gets him.
>
> That puts Johnson in play at 7-10 and we can get
> there for a 3rd.

****************************************************

Yeah, lots of BS going around right now.

I can believe the 54th pick, but not Ireland willing to spend the $9M. Albert isn't that good.

I just hope Ireland isn't panicking over the LT position.

Save the money and draft a LT in the 2nd round. K. Long great bloodline.

K LOng was reported to be a jerk at the college all pro game. Turned a lot of pro gm and coaches off. Long did not even play LT at Oregn sh** he did not even play tackle. Some people on this board really don't know what they are talking about. Sign Albert and get the problem resolved. Albert played better than Long last year. What better could you ask for, a LT that gave up only 1 sack in a season?
Yeah he was rated 25th by one magazine but two others had him rated at 7th and 9th. Last year when I posted to sign McKinnie people were posting the same negative crap they are now saying about Albert. Now some are pulling their heads out and actually saying sign McKinnie.

Make the trade. Give up the 42.

Albert is good but he's not that good. We may as well have signed Jake Long. At least he could run block. I guarantee there is a tackle in this draft that will be selected after pick 54 that will be better than Albert. They just need to identify him.

He is not worth a draft pick and 9 mil a year. Albert was a guard at Virginia (next to Eugen Monroe) when he got drafted. It's time this FO started finding some talent in the draft.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

U guarantee then come up w/ a name. Its time the F/O starts to find definitive answers for the Oline and I think Albert is one.

That's not my job. It's the FO. Like you said it's time the FO finds definitive answers. It's ridiculous that we are worrying about a LT at this point when we just drafted one at 42 last year. It would be a lot easier to draft a RT later in the draft or sign Winston or Clabo.

You think Albert is the one but why would you pay him more than Jake Long? Yes Long was injured last year but who has been the better tackle over the last 4 years. It's Long by a long shot.

Why should Albert be rewarded with the biggest off season contract? Because we have a need at LT? That's not a good way to build a team....Overpaying for an injury prone player. We did the right thing by letting Jake walk and we should do the right thing again by not overpaying for Albert.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Sign Albert. U r certainly not refering to Albert as injury prone. Plus the money is not coming out of your pocket. That is the nature of the business the guy is up for a big pay day. If we want him we gotta pay the price. Just like last year when I brought up Mckinnie I would like to see someone else sign Albert, resolve their LT issues and see him play in the SB while Dolphin fans are left to whine on this board.

McKinnie is a lazy tub which is why he is still unsigned. He didn't even play last year until injury....because he was out of shape and in the dog house.

Yes, Albert is injury prone. Bad backs are no light matter. He has played 16 games once in 5 years and missed 3 games last year. He played 1 less game than Long over 5 years.

No, it doesn't come out of my pocket but I know that if you overpay for average players then you don't have cap space to pick up talent when it comes around....players like Wallace...or resign your own talented players.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Dude has a muscular poblem he lives w/ it. The phins will either sign him or they will not I hope so. I live in the Bmore area and trsut me th Ravens would not have win the SB w/ out McKinnie. Their oline did not stabilized until he was inserted. So the big fat lazy slob gets to sport a SB ring while fans like you get to call him names. Trust me Ravens fans appreciate what he did last year but Ravens fans do appear to be bit more knowledgable.

We'll have more leverage and insight after the top part of the draft is known.

Maybe someone falls to us, and worst case we work out the deal after they pick an LT higher up.

It would be good to get him at the right price, but I think it would be an over reaction to overpay Albert & give up the 2nd pick (even if it is 54)

I'd say hope for an LT to fall to 12, if not use 12 on BPA, pick up a good future LT at 42, and work on a trade for Albert for a 3rd once they have selected an LT.

I don't think we are that desperate, and can still sign Eric Winston if nothing comes out of the draft for this year's starter

That's what happens when lazy tubs get off their arse and start earning their money. Better late than never I guess. He didn't even play until the playoffs.

Wow. He has a SuperBowl ring. So does David Carr.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

If KC wants to draft Joeckel, it puts them in a bad negotiating spot trying to unload Albert.. Ireland knows this, so he is going to play them and low ball them.. Having a disgruntled franchised player in the locker room, when you spend the number 1 overall pick on his replacement is probably not a good chemistry move for the locker room... Not to mention the 9 million dollar cap implication on a guy who isnt going to play LT.. KC is screwed in this deal...There only hope is to suggest someone else is interested to try and keep some sort of position to negotiate from against us...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

so now the latest rumor is we are OK with paying Albert elite LT money and the holdup is draft pick comp. And KC wants more than a 2d.
The more I hear about this the less I like. WTF Ireland?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I would hate to give a 2nd round pick AND pay "elite" LT money. A 4th and elite money? Sure. Maybe even a 3rd, but not a 2nd. Please Ireland - don't.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> K LOng was reported to be a jerk at the college
> all pro game. Turned a lot of pro gm and coaches
> off. Long did not even play LT at Oregn sh** he
> did not even play tackle. Some people on this
> board really don't know what they are talking
> about. Sign Albert and get the problem resolved.
> Albert played better than Long last year. What
> better could you ask for, a LT that gave up only 1
> sack in a season?
> Yeah he was rated 25th by one magazine but two
> others had him rated at 7th and 9th. Last year
> when I posted to sign McKinnie people were posting
> the same negative crap they are now saying about
> Albert. Now some are pulling their heads out and
> actually saying sign McKinnie.
>
> Make the trade. Give up the 42.

*******************************************

And $9M for a guy who has played only one complete season out of 5? And who failed to start 5 games last season?

Not worth that kind of money.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's not my job. It's the FO. Like you said it's
> time the FO finds definitive answers. It's
> ridiculous that we are worrying about a LT at this
> point when we just drafted one at 42 last year. It
> would be a lot easier to draft a RT later in the
> draft or sign Winston or Clabo.
>
> You think Albert is the one but why would you pay
> him more than Jake Long? Yes Long was injured last
> year but who has been the better tackle over the
> last 4 years. It's Long by a long shot.
>
> Why should Albert be rewarded with the biggest off
> season contract? Because we have a need at LT?
> That's not a good way to build a
> team....Overpaying for an injury prone player. We
> did the right thing by letting Jake walk and we
> should do the right thing again by not overpaying
> for Albert.

**********************************************

Problem is, from what I've been reading, Miami is willing to pay Albert $9M per year. Supposedly, the hang up is not the money, but the compensation (which 2nd round pick). I also read where the KC GM thinks Albert is a good player and may be looking for more compensation than that 2nd rounder.

If that is the case, and I were Ireland, I'd walk away right now.

As Armando (from the Herald) said, "I'd hold off right now, then call KC on Saturday."

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sign Albert. U r certainly not refering to Albert
> as injury prone. Plus the money is not coming out
> of your pocket. That is the nature of the business
> the guy is up for a big pay day. If we want him we
> gotta pay the price. Just like last year when I
> brought up Mckinnie I would like to see someone
> else sign Albert, resolve their LT issues and see
> him play in the SB while Dolphin fans are left to
> whine on this board.

***********************************************

If he's not injury prone, then what do you attribute to his playing in only one full season out of five? And....not starting five games last year?

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dude has a muscular poblem he lives w/ it. The
> phins will either sign him or they will not I hope
> so. I live in the Bmore area and trsut me th
> Ravens would not have win the SB w/ out McKinnie.
> Their oline did not stabilized until he was
> inserted. So the big fat lazy slob gets to sport a
> SB ring while fans like you get to call him names.
> Trust me Ravens fans appreciate what he did last
> year but Ravens fans do appear to be bit more
> knowledgable.

*********************************************

He only started those last few games because of injury. Where was he the rest of the year?

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If KC wants to draft Joeckel, it puts them in a
> bad negotiating spot trying to unload Albert..
> Ireland knows this, so he is going to play them
> and low ball them.. Having a disgruntled
> franchised player in the locker room, when you
> spend the number 1 overall pick on his replacement
> is probably not a good chemistry move for the
> locker room... Not to mention the 9 million dollar
> cap implication on a guy who isnt going to play
> LT.. KC is screwed in this deal...There only hope
> is to suggest someone else is interested to try
> and keep some sort of position to negotiate from
> against us...

*************************************************

I agree with ya, Crowder, but I am reading where Ireland is back talking to KC and is (supposedly) willing to give Albert the $9M per year he is asking for. Along with that, they are arguing over which 2nd round pick to give up.

I don't know if Ireland has gone back and reopened the talks just to see where KC is, or he is really serious about this. I believe Albert also just took a physical in Miami.

That is all pretty serious stuff to me. If Ireland goes through with this deal the way it is set up right now, that will be his one major mistake (thus far) this off season, IMO. He just may regret it.

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would hate to give a 2nd round pick AND pay
> "elite" LT money. A 4th and elite money? Sure.
> Maybe even a 3rd, but not a 2nd. Please Ireland -
> don't.


******************************************

Albert isn't even close to being elite, so why pay him elite money?

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> *************************************************
>
> I agree with ya, Crowder, but I am reading where
> Ireland is back talking to KC and is (supposedly)
> willing to give Albert the $9M per year he is
> asking for. Along with that, they are arguing
> over which 2nd round pick to give up.
>
> I don't know if Ireland has gone back and reopened
> the talks just to see where KC is, or he is really
> serious about this. I believe Albert also just
> took a physical in Miami.
>
> That is all pretty serious stuff to me. If
> Ireland goes through with this deal the way it is
> set up right now, that will be his one major
> mistake (thus far) this off season, IMO. He just
> may regret it.


I would offer them 54 at best, probably try and make the deal happen with our first 3rd... We have an edge in negotiations with both Albert and the team... Albert doesn't want to be there, if he is moved to right tackle or guard it will lower his value next year..So he doesn't have that strong of a hand either. SO I think they are probably trying to low ball both, and I think it will work.. Both of them are playing against a stacked deck so to speak.. If the deal isn't a good deal for us with Albert and KC, I would let the talks go dark until after the draft.. Their position is only going to get weaker IMO, unless some other team stirs the pot and is willing to offer more then us.. but in my opinion, we shouldnt blink in this stare down..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

i don't see how we are desperate here. let kc trade him to AZ or SD. That is one less team to take one of the top 3 OTs in the draft, making it easier to move up if one of them falls.

When will people learn to stop giving Andy Reid 2d rounders for players he no longer wants.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i don't see how we are desperate here. let kc
> trade him to AZ or SD. That is one less team to
> take one of the top 3 OTs in the draft, making it
> easier to move up if one of them falls.
>
> When will people learn to stop giving Andy Reid 2d
> rounders for players he no longer wants.


We aren't desperate, by perception we have a lot of options to address the need. Albert just happens to be one of them. If KC or Albert want too much we don't do it... The real elephants in the room, are who else we might want to spend picks on besides tackles.. How we view Martin, long term and other tackles on our roster. Also if we think we can score a starting tackle in the later rds.. I wouldn't rule out that Ireland thinks he has 2 starting tackles on the roster possibly... Getting ALbert on a 2 year deal could also be a nice stop gap to address the tackle next year or hope to develop a later rd pick..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder, to me TOO MUCH is making ANY deal before the draft.

Once they draft Joeckel, they are in a much weaker position.

They have the FIRST pick in the draft so it's not like they are trying to trade up or have to really gamble on getting Joeckel. If they had to gamble on getting him (such as if they were number 3 or 5), then trading Albert might be a higher risk.

But they take NO risk in waiting until after the draft.

After the draft, KC's position becomes considerably weaker.

So funny (and so sad for US) that only a sucker like Ireland cannot see this. I'd even rather see us draft another LT rather than do this.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> We aren't desperate, by perception we have a lot
> of options to address the need.

Our WORST case scenario is we start Martin at LT and sign Clabo or Winston, and draft a project OT in the 2-4th and let him back them up.

That's not a bad option. Its just not perfect.

No need to panic now. Just let it play out. If they don't take our offer, move on. At the end of this year we'll know if Martin is a LT at this level or not and we can go after Albert as a FA or target a LT in the draft.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > We aren't desperate, by perception we have a
> lot
> > of options to address the need.
>
> Our WORST case scenario is we start Martin at LT
> and sign Clabo or Winston, and draft a project OT
> in the 2-4th and let him back them up.
>
> That's not a bad option. Its just not perfect.
>
> No need to panic now. Just let it play out. If
> they don't take our offer, move on. At the end
> of this year we'll know if Martin is a LT at this
> level or not and we can go after Albert as a FA or
> target a LT in the draft.

Agreed. Sign Winston to play RT. Let's see what Martin can do at LT. Sign McKinnie to back him up or step in if Martin stinks. Draft an OT in the 2d or 3d for the future. That's a much better plan than giving Albert 9mm per year and KC a 2d round pick for the honor.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.