dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BigNastyFish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do you pull these "stats" out of your ass or
> > what?
> >
> > I mean really -- for a lot of us who have
> watched
> > real football -- as opposed to subscribing to
> some
> > dweeb football stat service -- we actually SAW
> a
> > better looking football player from Martin as
> the
> > year progressed. And he certainly looked better
> at
> > LT
>
> Yes, he sure did look better at LT. Like when he
> got totally embarrassed in the San Fran game. Have
> you ever seen a lineman blown up as badly as he
> was in that game? And he was a human turnstile in
> the final Patriots game. If you think he played
> better at LT, that tells me all I need to know
> about your football acumen.


Which game was it at LT when he got bull rushed and steamrolled by a CB?

What if we trade for Albert and then still sign Winston or Clabo? Draft Cooper....release Incog (+4.3 mil) to pay for Winston....Jerry a backup.

LT Albert
LG Cooper
C Pouncey
RG Louis
RT Clabo/Winston

I know ....just a thought.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I don't see us spending a #2 pick and a ton of money on Albert, the 12 pick on Cooper (who won't be there most likely), and then another contract to Winston. That would be 4 of 5 new starters on the line, which was average last year but not horrible (Incog made the pro bowl after all). Too many other needs to fill. We should try to avoid churning the OL the way Sprorano did. We need some continuity. I'd like to see Martin get a shot somewhere as a starter

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I didn't see us swapping out both of our starting linebackers either....and they were better than our offensive line.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2013 07:58AM by eesti.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do not give anything for this scrub please.
> Keep
> > all your picks and build through the draft
> unless
> > ireland is so desperate to keep his job he is
> > going to resort to this dumb move.
> >
> > YUP i have a feeling IRELAND is desperate to
> keep
> > his job.
> >
> > He is going to gamble IMHO with the next few
> > moves. You know its DO OR DIE FOR HIM.
>
>
> I could not disagree with this more. If there was
> do or die for him, Kevin Burnett and Karlos Dansby
> would still be on the team. Cutting them was not a
> move done by a GM playing for one season. And he
> has the team set up very well for cap space in
> 2014 and 2015. Most of what he has done has been
> with a good long term view.


I disagree. Darnsbi and burnett were on their last legs and never made impact plays.....the LB position was upgraded IMO.....The ravens LB was sought of as Ray Lewis replacement.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I disagree. Darnsbi and burnett were on their last
> legs and never made impact plays.....the LB
> position was upgraded IMO

That remains to be seen. We all hope it will be but nobody knows how it will work out. The players that replaced them have never overwhelmed anyone with impact plays. They have a few more sacks. that's about it.

Dansby never earned the big payday he got here but both he and Burnett ended the weekly domination of TE's. They were both good in coverage.

.....The ravens LB was
> sought of as Ray Lewis replacement.

And Channing Crowder was Zach Thomas replacement.... It didn't make him Zach Thomas.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfanmark Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BigNastyFish Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Do you pull these "stats" out of your ass or
> > > what?
> > >
> > > I mean really -- for a lot of us who have
> > watched
> > > real football -- as opposed to subscribing to
> > some
> > > dweeb football stat service -- we actually
> SAW
> > a
> > > better looking football player from Martin as
> > the
> > > year progressed. And he certainly looked
> better
> > at
> > > LT
> >
> > Yes, he sure did look better at LT. Like when
> he
> > got totally embarrassed in the San Fran game.
> Have
> > you ever seen a lineman blown up as badly as he
> > was in that game? And he was a human turnstile
> in
> > the final Patriots game. If you think he played
> > better at LT, that tells me all I need to know
> > about your football acumen.
>
>
> Which game was it at LT when he got bull rushed
> and steamrolled by a CB?


Obviously, I agree with BigNastyFish in defending Jonathan Martin but I don't recall that DolfanMark EVER SAID that Martin "got bull-rushed and stemrolled by a CB".

Maybe in another thread?

Where are you getting this from, Truth?

Dolphins have permission to speak to Albert. No they don't. Yes they do. They spoke with him on Saturday. They are offering #54 only. LOL

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2013 10:27AM by eesti.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I disagree. Darnsbi and burnett were on their
> last
> > legs and never made impact plays.....the LB
> > position was upgraded IMO
>
> That remains to be seen. We all hope it will be
> but nobody knows how it will work out. The players
> that replaced them have never overwhelmed anyone
> with impact plays. They have a few more sacks.
> that's about it.
>
> Dansby never earned the big payday he got here but
> both he and Burnett ended the weekly domination of
> TE's. They were both good in coverage.
>
> .....The ravens LB was
> > sought of as Ray Lewis replacement.
>
> And Channing Crowder was Zach Thomas
> replacement.... It didn't make him Zach Thomas.


In whos world was channing chrowder sought of as zachs replacement?

Channing crowder was always a scrub!.

Channing crowder was always a tatood looking newspaper scrub.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > 1. I wouldn't take that first option. I would
> > give up only one of my 2nd round picks. The
> other
> > pick would be either a 3rd or 4th.
>
>
> That's just not happening. You need to get up to
> #2 or #3 at a minimum to ensure you get one of
> those guys. The jump from #12 to #3 is 1000 pts.
> Its 1200 to get to #2.
>
> Both our 2nds together dont equal 900 points.
>
>
> >
> > 2. I wouldn't trade up for Johnson.
>
>
>
> Ok
>
>
>
> >
> > 3. This one is OK. But, to tweak that
> scenario,
> > I would do my best to trade back and pick up
> that
> > 2nd rounder that I just lost.
>
>
> I have no problem trading down. But Cooper and
> Eifert are two impact players in our system. Not
> sure there's one in the 20's that you can say that
> about with the same conviction.
>
> It would have to be a sweet trade to get me to
> pass on them.


*******************************************************
On that first option, Truth, I understand what it would take to do what you proposed, but......what I am saying is I wouldn't do it; I would give up only one of my 2nd rounders.

Do you honestly feel that Eifert is worth the #12 pick? I think it is too high for a TE, unless that is the position I need that would get me to the Super Bowl. Since that isn't the situation, no TE at 12. Cooper? Maybe later in the first, but not at 12.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > captkoi Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > 1. I wouldn't take that first option. I
> would
> > > give up only one of my 2nd round picks. The
> > other
> > > pick would be either a 3rd or 4th.
> >
> >
> > That's just not happening. You need to get up
> to
> > #2 or #3 at a minimum to ensure you get one of
> > those guys. The jump from #12 to #3 is 1000
> pts.
> > Its 1200 to get to #2.
> >
> > Both our 2nds together dont equal 900 points.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > 2. I wouldn't trade up for Johnson.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ok
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > 3. This one is OK. But, to tweak that
> > scenario,
> > > I would do my best to trade back and pick up
> > that
> > > 2nd rounder that I just lost.
> >
> >
> > I have no problem trading down. But Cooper
> and
> > Eifert are two impact players in our system.
> Not
> > sure there's one in the 20's that you can say
> that
> > about with the same conviction.
> >
> > It would have to be a sweet trade to get me to
> > pass on them.
>
>
> **************************************************
> *****
> On that first option, Truth, I understand what it
> would take to do what you proposed, but......what
> I am saying is I wouldn't do it; I would give up
> only one of my 2nd rounders.
>
> Do you honestly feel that Eifert is worth the #12
> pick? I think it is too high for a TE, unless
> that is the position I need that would get me to
> the Super Bowl. Since that isn't the situation,
> no TE at 12. Cooper? Maybe later in the first,
> but not at 12.

I'm looking for a guy who is going to be a pro bowl level player at #12. I can't ask for more than that, and I can fill needs in the 2nd & 3rd. I, for one, really couldn't care less where some site or pundit says its "value" for a player. He's either a pro bowl talent or he isn't. Not an easy thing to project for sure, but in my opinion it breaks down like this:

The 3 LT's, Jordan, Shariff and Louteleile will all be off the board by #12

That leaves three or 4 guys, who fit our systems, who I think are most likely to be pro bowlers:

Johnathan Cooper, Tyler Eifert, DJ Hayden and Dee Milliner.

I think Milliner goes in the top 10. I'm hesitant to take Hayden there because the injury that nearly killed him.

That leaves Cooper and Eiffert.

For me, I take them in that order, although I'm considering flipping Cooper and Eifert because I can get a good athletic guard like Brian Schwenke in the 3rd but I can't get an every down TE who is one of the better run blockers and the best redzone threat in this draft after Eifert comes off the board.


Can't afford to miss on your 1st pick.

it makes no sense to pay albert the money we were unwilling to pay long, and pay a 2d round pick for the privilege. Albert is simply not nearly that good of the player.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

You know how much I hate the idea of drafting a HIGH LT (who is not interchangeable at RT) just because you are not sure of Jonathan Martin....well as much as I hate that I hate the idea of trading for this guy even more.

Forced to make a choice, I'd draft Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma.

yes but we can only draft johnson if we trade up to get him, he won't be there at 12

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Which is why I wouldn't do that but I'm just talking about how much I hate us getting a free agent LT and I was saying by comparison I would rather trade up to get Johnson but if I had my druthers, I wouldn't do that either.

I believe either we are SET at LT or, at the very least, we need to give Jonathan Martin another year before we go doing anything to over extend ourselves just because we don't trust that the All American rookie was only playing like a rookie last year.

I'm with you, I want to give Martin a shot at LT
But I think given a choice I'd rather trade a 1 and 2 to try to get Fisher or Jokel (assuming one falls to 6) than trade a 2 for Albert and pay him Jake Long $$

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm with you, I want to give Martin a shot at LT
> But I think given a choice I'd rather trade a 1
> and 2 to try to get Fisher or Jokel (assuming one
> falls to 6) than trade a 2 for Albert and pay him
> Jake Long $$


Me too.

I'd trade up for Fisher if he fell to 3 or lower and the cost was reasonable.

But its a tough choice.

Albert and Eifert/Cooper or one of the big LT's....could go with either and be happy.

seems like Albert isn't going to budge on his contract demands. He's locked in for 9mm this year so why would he, really?
if KC wants to just dump him, would you give up our 3d rounder for his current deal and take our chances on resigning him next off season (or franchising him again)?
this guy seems like a headache already and he's not even on the team

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I am hopefull that with Joe Philbin in the room, we make better selections with our (2-4 round) draft choices. I read a few weeks back how he was gaining a great reputation around the league as a player evaluator.

I am also hopefull (and somewhat confident) that Ireland will stick to his guns on the contract situation. I don't see us overpaying for Albert who is also battling a back issue after missing 3 games and 5 starts last year.

I see a first round trade up in our future.

I don't see Albert backing down. He can make more money this year (probably 5 million more) on the franchise tag and either get a bigger raise in 2014 or the ability to deal with more teams as a FA.

Looks like KC will have other issues to worry about...like who is playing RT. The rookie or the disgruntled vet.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

another idea to solve LT. Sign B McKinnie for cheap (he started at LT in the S. If Martin doesn't work out at LT then play McKinnie there. We can certainly get by this year like that. Given the "uncertainty" about whether Martin can be a good LT---maybe he can, maybe he can't--seems the solution is not to overpay for a guy who refuses to play anything other than LT and push Martin to RT or the bench for the forseeable future.
And this can be done after the draft--maybe we pick someone that solves the problem as well.
The worst option to me is tading a #2 for Albert and paying him Jake Long $$$.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am hopefull that with Joe Philbin in the room,
> we make better selections with our (2-4 round)
> draft choices. I read a few weeks back how he was
> gaining a great reputation around the league as a
> player evaluator.


Didn't Philbin want Egnew in the 3rd?

I don't know. Do you?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

the "rumor" (not sure the source) is that philbin liked Egnew before the draft. Not sure if that's the case or not. Anyway, Egnew is built like a tub of goo, so his softness should've been evident to all

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know. Do you?


Those were the reports after the draft.

But I wasn't there so I can't say for sure.

Just saw on NFLN that compensation IS NOT the holdup for the trade. It is Miami insisting they will only give up 54 instead of 42. Miami is said to be ok paying 8 mil per year.

Cardinals and SD are now in the RUMORED trade talks. AZ can offer #38 and SD has the 45th pick.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just saw on NFLN that compensation IS NOT the
> holdup for the trade. It is Miami insisting they
> will only give up 54 instead of 42. Miami is said
> to be ok paying 8 mil per year.
>
> Cardinals and SD are now in the RUMORED trade
> talks. AZ can offer #38 and SD has the 45th pick.


Its that time of the year when 90% of what you hear is BS.

gotta love it.

I hope AZ gets him.

That puts Johnson in play at 7-10 and we can get there for a 3rd.

I don't look for this trade to happen until day two of the draft...Friday.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers