Free agency is going to start shortly, and the Dolphins need to go ahead, and lock up Hartline before we lose him to a team like the Patriots. Remember when we let Welker go for a 2nd round pick. How did that work out for us? Hartline could walk as a free agent, and we would get nothing in return. Memo to the front office stop being cheap asses, and pay Hartline. With another reciever on the other side along with Bess the guy could be as good as Jordy Nelson or even better. That's my opinion do you guys agree?

They'll keep him if he wants to stay.

I like the guy. I hope we re-sign him.

But like with Jake Long, I'm not overpaying.

If he wants to be here for $4-6 mill a year then great.

If he has dreams of being paid like an elite WR then I let him walk.

Exactlty Hartline is a fan favorite but he is really an average receiver. If they overpay on this guy I will be ticked. He isn't Wes Walker and can easily be replaced.

He'll make a helluva possession receiver when we get that speed blow away the coverage receiver. (Hint: in the draft, not in free agency).

If we don't, the Pats will sign him, especially if Welker leaves. He fits this offense nicely, we need to sign him.

Hartline is more than a possession receiver. Hell he might even be a 4.4 or somewhere in that range. I think he gets labeled because he is white which is totally unfair. By the way aren't all receivers possession receivers I mean they have to possess the ball don't they? I think if he leaves we will regret our dumb decision once again.

Hartline has chemistry with Tannehill so, unless he's looking for an exorbitant yearly salary he'll be here next season as part of an improved team. I'm optimistic that more playmakers will be surrounding Tannehill on offense, receiving and running the ball. We will know in a few months whether my hypothesis is correct.

We can't let Hartline leave. Because if we do, we lose 35% (my estimate) of our passing offense.

With Bess accounting for another 25%, Fasano 15%, Bush 10%, Clay 5%, Thomas 5%...and everyone else combined accounting for the last 5%.

If we can add a veteran WR that immediately accounts for 20% of the offense and a rookie draft pick at WR that can account for another 10-15%, our offense would be a lot more balanced and dangerous...making Hartline and Bess better even though they'd be responsible for a smaller portion of our overall production.

Of our current roster, Egnew is the guy that really needs to step up and start producing on the order of 20%.

More options means more plays out of fresher players, and that means more first downs and more points.

And that...means more wins.

Finshady Wrote:
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> Hartline is more than a possession receiver. Hell
> he might even be a 4.4 or somewhere in that range.
> I think he gets labeled because he is white which
> is totally unfair. By the way aren't all
> receivers possession receivers I mean they have to
> possess the ball don't they? I think if he leaves
> we will regret our dumb decision once again.


You going to give him a 5 year/$50 million contract?

"Average" Wr's don't get 1000 yards receiving. While Hartline is far from elite, he is above average and turning into a great #2.

Hartline is not getting a 10 mil contract nor would I pay him that much. That is a number for Mike Wallace. Hartline should fall in between the area of a Nate Washington or Steve Johnson contract.

Washington: 6 yr/26.8 mil (4.46 yr)
Johnson: 5 yr/36 mil (7.2 yr)

Johnson actually got more because he already had two 1k season before he signed. Hartline will not get that much.

Hartline should get around 5 mil a year. Probably a 3 year, 15 mil deal. He will be 27 in 2013.

Laurent Robinson was drastically overpaid on a 5 yr/32 mil deal. He had never had a 1k season.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Average" Wr's don't get 1000 yards receiving.
> While Hartline is far from elite, he is above
> average and turning into a great #2.
>
> Hartline is not getting a 10 mil contract nor
> would I pay him that much. That is a number for
> Mike Wallace. Hartline should fall in between the
> area of a Nate Washington or Steve Johnson
> contract.
>
> Washington: 6 yr/26.8 mil (4.46 yr)
> Johnson: 5 yr/36 mil (7.2 yr)
>
> Johnson actually got more because he already had
> two 1k season before he signed. Hartline will not
> get that much.
>
> Hartline should get around 5 mil a year. Probably
> a 3 year, 15 mil deal. He will be 27 in 2013.
>
> Laurent Robinson was drastically overpaid on a 5
> yr/32 mil deal. He had never had a 1k season.


I agree...he should get around $5mill a year.

That doesn't mean he isn't going to ask for, or want, more.

What I was getting at was that some people act as if we don't re-sign Hartline it would be the worst move ever. I was just trying to show some people that there is a point at which letting a guy like Hartline walk becomes the RIGHT move...no matter who he eventually signs with.

He has to want to be here and he has to agree to a reasonable salary.

Frankly, Hartline's year disappointed me. Outside of one huge yardage game, he averaged 55 yards per and 0 TD per game for the other 15. In looking at his performance in our 2012 offense, I'd say he was the beneficiary of being a de-facto #1 and getting a lot of targets.

Jordy Nelson - in the midst of a monster 15-td year got a 3-yr 13+ million dollar contract extension. This year, he was one of three GB receivers whose seasons looked pretty similar - no one had 1000 yards, all between 7-14 TD. I think the yardage is more a product of the system and its options and Rodgers' ability to spread it out and pick the right guy on the right play.

From the comments I read in the Herald, Hartline is looking to get paid big. I don't think he's worth more than what Nelson got in GB. I like the idea of a short contract that lets him have a chance at another big contract if he steps it up even more. He didn't do THAT much as our de-facto #1, and he never really took full advantage of Marshall's presence as a strong #1 (with major issues).

There is a right price, and Hartline's one I wouldn't overpay by much. I worry that NE could take him and get him to the next level, but I think that's a good reason to really consider his value but not a great reason to significantly overpay.

Swope could replace Hartline

We can do w/ out Hartline. If he and Tanny's relationship was so special Hartline would have more than 1 td reception. A 1k yards in a 16 game season is not special. Do I want to see him in a phins uni next year, yes. Do I want to overpay to keep him no. Someone said they think he is underrated because he is white I think he is overrated because of the same

Really Hartline overrated because he is white never ever heard that one before lol. Swope is a damn good receiver however why not draft him, and let them play together. Along with Bess that would be 3 very good receivers. Something we have not had in South Florida for a long long time.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really Hartline overrated because he is white
> never ever heard that one before lol. Swope is a
> damn good receiver however why not draft him, and
> let them play together. Along with Bess that
> would be 3 very good receivers. Something we have
> not had in South Florida for a long long time.


I like Swope but his game is too similar to Hartline's.

Our offense requires guys with quickness and who can run after the catch. Guys who don't often get caught from behind.

We don't need three guys who don't scare defenses when the ball is in their hands.

We really don't need more than one.

That is a recipe for disaster not to mention boring.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

You need to resign Hartline no question. He would have had several more TD's if we had a real QB that didnt miss or under throw him several times.

He is an above average WR. The Patriots are hoping we do not resign him.

Hartline can definetely play...he just needs better receivers around him to take some pressure off of him.

At the end of the season other teams definetely game planned for hartline because we got nobody else thats why his production declined.

Hartline can be a good second string receiver or great third stringer.

'Hartline can be a good second string receiver or great third stringer.'

I agree I don't want to dump first string receiver money on him. Make him offer and then let him hit the street to see if its fair.

I am not afraid to see him walk we have to get the best players for our money. No way am I giving a guy w/ 1 td catch big money. I don't care who the qb is.

Why do people always say "outside of that one game where he had huge yardage..." and then eliminate it to knock the player?

Hartline is the one who had the big day. It wasn't Jordy Nelson in Hartlines uniform. Why should anyone ignore that huge day? I guarantee other teams didn't. It put Hartline in the national spotlight and every coach on our schedule took note and made plans on how to not let him do it again.

I've heard people say it about Tannehill (431 yard game), Reggie Bush (172 yard game) and Hartline (253 yards). They earned the yards...they get the credit. You can't eliminate one entire game and then make an average.

Hartline also had a 107 and 111 yard games. All good receivers have one or two huge games and they also have a few games where they are held to 20 or 30 yards. Roddy White is a great receiver. I don't think anyone would dispute that. He had over 1300 yards this year. He also had games of 16, 20 and 38 yards.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Roddy White had 7td's. I'm not knocking Hartline. My point is if I am the owner of a 7-9 team. A continuosly mediocre team and I have a veteran WR who only has 1td reception for the season asking for big money. A veteran wr who went 12 straight games w/o a td reception

He is not going to get it.

Not top 10 money not top 20.

I would play hard ball w/ Hartline and have no problem if he walked. Its much harder for me to see Fasano walk than Hartline.

I'm not drinking this guys kool aid.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roddy White had 7td's. I'm not knocking Hartline.

With all due respect...you are. You are knocking his TD production and saying we need to play hardball with him. That's a little premature IMO.

> My point is if I am the owner of a 7-9 team. A
> continuosly mediocre team and I have a veteran WR
> who only has 1td reception for the season asking
> for big money. A veteran wr who went 12 straight
> games w/o a td reception
>
> He is not going to get it.

It's all in how you look at it. Most people complained for years that Hartline wasn't productive enough but the fact is that WR's usually take 3 years to develop. Well Hartline has developed and his contract is up. He also played with an up and down rookie who will improve right along with Hartline.

>
> Not top 10 money not top 20.


Not top 10 but nobody has even come up with a number yet. We don't know what he is asking for. He didn't like the contract offer at the beginning of the year and turned it down. Knowing Ireland it was probably little more than the league minimum.

>
> I would play hard ball w/ Hartline and have no
> problem if he walked. Its much harder for me to
> see Fasano walk than Hartline.

Fasano? Really? You think he meant more to our offense than Hartline this year? OK he had 4 more TD's but he too often disappeared. 332 yards? That is just a little more than our statrting RB. Larry Fitgerald only had 4 td's this year as well.

>
> I'm not drinking this guys kool aid.

Forget hard ball. That's how you lose out on players. You settle on a fair contract. Is he worth top 10 money? No, but he is worth more than he gets right now. He has elevated himself and stepped up. Sure the TD's are a problem but I'm sure it can be corrected when he is freed up by a true #1.

Look at the number 2's out there right now on other teams....There are a FEW great duos out there (ATL) but very few 2's are better than Hartline.

I don't understand the negativity towards him. No one said we should overpay him and we damn sure know Ireland isn't going to do that. He will get around 4 to 4.5 mil a year. No danger of top 10 money. If he turns his nose up at 4.5 then you let him walk but let's get an offer before we railroad the guy.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2013 07:16AM by eesti.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Not top 10 but nobody has even come up with a
> number yet. We don't know what he is asking for.
> He didn't like the contract offer at the beginning
> of the year and turned it down. Knowing Ireland it
> was probably little more than the league minimum.

I wonder what the offer was also.

If I had to guess I'd say it was what they signed Bess for...4 years/$9.3 mill.

And If I were Hartline I'd also have been a little miffed at that offer.

I don't kno wthat at the time it was unfair if that was the offer.

Hartline said after the offer that they already got a "starter" (himself) for 3-4 years at a discount rate. He may have been a little full of himself at that point since he was not really productive at all throughout those years even if he was a starter. He has more leverage now that he has a 1k season under his belt but he is far from elite...and it's not like he was AJ Green productive out of the gate. He was actually outperformed during that time by Davone Bess.

Bess averaged 705 yards per year during that span. Hartline was at 556 yards. Bess also has not produced TD's. Something that has plagued every Miami receiver for several years. Even Marshall averaged only 4.5 per year while he was here. That will improve with better QB play IMO....better ball anticipation and placement.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Stats:

Receptions Yards TD Years
Bess 321 3477 7 4
Hartline 183 2753 1 5

Leave your playbook on the way out Mr Hartline I wish you well on your future endeavors.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't kno wthat at the time it was unfair if
> that was the offer.
>
> Hartline said after the offer that they already
> got a "starter" (himself) for 3-4 years at a
> discount rate. He may have been a little full of
> himself at that point since he was not really
> productive at all throughout those years even if
> he was a starter. He has more leverage now that he
> has a 1k season under his belt but he is far from
> elite...and it's not like he was AJ Green
> productive out of the gate. He was actually
> outperformed during that time by Davone Bess.
>
> Bess averaged 705 yards per year during that span.
> Hartline was at 556 yards. Bess also has not
> produced TD's. Something that has plagued every
> Miami receiver for several years. Even Marshall
> averaged only 4.5 per year while he was here. That
> will improve with better QB play IMO....better
> ball anticipation and placement.

I think he considers himself a 4 year starter and Bess a #3 WR. Add to that the fact that his agent is Drew Rosenhaus and I can see why he'd think that was a low ball offer.

I'd like to see them get a deal done at around 5 years, $20mill. I can live with 5yr/$25m. Much more than that and I start looking at other options.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stats:
>
> Receptions Yards TD Years
> Bess 321 3477 7 4
> Hartline 183 2753 1 5
>
> Leave your playbook on the way out Mr Hartline I
> wish you well on your future endeavors.


You have to consider his career trajectory as well.

Hartline established himself as a legitimate (not a star) starting WR in this league this year. Bess is still nothing more than a slow slot WR.

I think he's a better player and more valuable than Bess going forward. I'd pay him more than the $2mill+ Bess makes now.

'
I think he's a better player and more valuable than Bess going forward. I'd pay him more than the $2mill+ Bess makes now.'

Screw that he had 4 years he is not a newbie. You exceeded expectations for one year while others were doing it before you and now you want us to throw a truckload of money your way. No way in hell he gets 2mil above Bess. I am looking at this as if I were negotiating this contract.

We only had 2 tears to evaluate Welker we have seen him 4. I do not even consider this a breakout season for him. I'm saving the money and putting it somewhere else. If we lose guys like Long and Fasano and Possibly Stark. I can live w/o Hartline.