OK...so say you have a WR that gets drafted and puts up the following numbers....

Season 1: 366/2
Season 2: 320/2
Season 3: 582/2
Season 4: 1k plus

According to your philosophy, you play hardball and show him the door unless he accepts a low ball offer.

Congratulations. You just let Jordy Nelson walk out the door and go to the Bears.

Nelson signed his new contract for 3 years/13.5 mil in 2011 after his breakout year except he had 1263/15 td's. He was much less productive than Hartline through the first three years. This year he only had 7 TD's...back to earth.

Through the first 3 years...

Nelson: 1,268 yards 6 TD's
Hartline: 1,670 yards 5 TD's

Please keep in mind Nelson was playing with Aaron Rodgers, a top 3 QB while Hartline was playing with Chad Henne and Matt Moore. A good QB with experince will get you those Td's.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Keep in mind I'm reviewing 4 years as I said and in 4 year Nelson had 15tds. Hartline 1.

Anthony Fasano had 5 tds w/ Moore in 2011 and 5 w/ Tannyhill in 2012. He still managed to find the end zone 5 times w/ a rookie qb.

The Pats gave us a 2nd and a 7th rnd pick for Welker do you think someone would trade the same for Hartline. I will keep saying I would like to see the guy in a phins uni next years but certainly not for 2 mil above Bess.

Pay out for productivity not potential. He has not outproduced a player he is rated above why should he be paid so much more than him?

Yes but Nelson also came back to earth in year 4. If a WR gets 10 Td's in a year he is doing VERY good. Most don't score that many. Only 8 WR's in the league scored 10 or more this year. That's 8 out of about 64 startings WR's and some teams field more in the spread.

I agree that 1 TD is just not going to get it but...

I think you have to pay for potential as long as the player has shown improvement. Hartline made major improvement. Bess has not. He is probably as good as he is going to get.

The more I look at WR contracts the more I think Hartline will get less than 4 mil a year. Probably 3.6 mil.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

"Bess has not"

Bess has contributed more to the org than Hartline has. Especially where it counts, in TD's.

If we had Hartline and a blazing WR, think of what Bess could be in a three wide receiver set play.

The same thing he is now most likely. a possession receiver who gets first downs. He isn't a threat to score. 2.4 TD's a year over 5 years.

Just think how a threat would be at that slot spot. Wes Welker, even Thigpen has more potential in the future.

Bess has maxed out.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
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> The same thing he is now most likely. a possession
> receiver who gets first downs.


Yup, so what does the other team do when they are covering the deep speed threat and Hartline and YET Bess is in at the same time on 3rd and 7 and above?

That's the point. A triple Threat. I'm not addressing the money factor. I don't know. Obviously if he is asking for too much money then that's a separate consideration.

I would just hate for him to become the second Wes Welker we gave up because He was heavily covered when all we had was Hartline and then we got someone to scare the living daylights out of the coverage and we let him go based on his performance BEFORE WE GOT KEENAN ALLEN.

He isn't a threat
> to score. 2.4 TD's a year over 5 years.

See above.


>
> Just think how a threat would be at that slot
> spot. Wes Welker, even Thigpen has more potential
> in the future.


You might be right but unfortunately, our coaching staff must have viewed this year as a year in which we were DESTINED FOR THE SUPERBOWL.....therefore, they did not CHOOSE to give significant playing time to the likes of Thigpen and Lamar Miller, etc. Instead of seeing what they could do, they were kept on the bench. The only rookie they chose to give adequate play time was Tannehill and he was the starting quarterback.


>
> Bess has maxed out.


Who knows.

We sign a F/A #1WR. Draft Keenan Allan or the kid from TN as #2WR Bess as #3WR. I'm good w/ that.

'Bess has maxed out'

Yep u r a reeall authority.

Hartline fits the typical W.C.O mold way better than Bess, this argument is laughable. If paying Hartline means cutting Bess then so be it.

Hartline has led our team in yards per catch every season he has been the league. Every season. His skills for boundary catches are exceptional. He is criminally underrated.

exactly DFM.

We just signed Fuller (6'4 223) and Tyms (6'3 210) to reserve/futures contracts. Big boys.

Are we assembling our future version of the Packers wide receivers and it's just not realized yet?

Jennings 5'11 195
Nelson 6'3 215
Jones 6'1 208
Driver 6' 188
Cobb 5'10 191

One can only hope/dream.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Mizzou i agree we shouldnt offer hartline big money....

Eesti i read somewhere the dolphins will make a big push for jennings...........

THE Truth Wrote:
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>
> If he has dreams of being paid like an elite WR
> then I let him walk.


Bingo.

eesti Wrote:
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> Yep u r a reeall authority.
>
> Just stating an opinion which is all anyone here
> can do. if you need more than that go hit up
> Mayock on twitter.


apologize for crossing the line.

samsam3738 Wrote:
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> Eesti i read somewhere the dolphins will make a
> big push for jennings...........


I would rather have Hartline than Jennings. Age and is Jennings really that much of an upgrade. Wallace and Welker Would be upgrades IMO.

I would like to see:

Wallace at #1 a rookie(Allen/Patterson) at #2 Hartline pulling the #3

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yep u r a reeall authority.
> >
> > Just stating an opinion which is all anyone
> here
> > can do. if you need more than that go hit up
> > Mayock on twitter.
>
>
> apologize for crossing the line.

It's all good.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Hartline is a young player on the rise at a premium position and that = $$$

We need to keep him

BUT

he's not worth top-of-the-pyramid "super big buck$!"

I think Hartline is quite bright. More to the point, he realizes his relative pecking order in the league and will resign for an "equitable deal." But he will not resign at a bargain basement price because the kid has way too many options and isn't in love with SFL.

I think he shouldnt be resigned at one of those insane prices i agree..

And at the same time i think he should be resigned at a moderate price. Hoping he agrees. Man my blood pressure would be high if he signs with NE.

"I think Hartline is quite bright. More to the point, he realizes his relative pecking order in the league and will resign for an "equitable deal." But he will not resign at a bargain basement price because the kid has way too many options and isn't in love with SFL."

I see him in the same light but I think we should treat him similiar to what we did w/ Solia and IMHO Solia was more important to the team than Hartline.

Wow all this discussion. I'll say this if Hartline played on the Patriots or Bronco's this year what would his numbers be like? Ok Tannehill was a rookie who really never got the chance to throw as many TD's in the red zone as other QB's in my opinion. So I think this team knows Hartline's value. They just want to pay him as little as possible in order to resign him not a good way to treat a good player on your team. What message does it send to our non star studded offense that we have? Have an above average year, and then get low balled by the team really?

Hope we sign Hartline but we cpild live w/out him. Conner V can replace him.

A rookie? Not in 2013 he won't if he ever does. WR's are risky.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2013 08:13AM by eesti.

tsstamper Wrote:
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> They just want to pay him as little as possible in
> order to resign him not a good way to treat a good
> player on your team. What message does it send to
> our non star studded offense that we have? Have an
> above average year, and then get low balled by the
> team really?
>
> In terms of the message it sends, I hope that it
> communicates "we will pay commensurate with your
> value" If the team overpaid every player who had
> one above-average year, then we would find
> ourselves at or over the cap and without the kind
> of talent that truly puts a team over the top.
> Marino used to restructure to give space so that
> the team could improve by adding (hopefully)
> impact players. Others have done it more
> recently.
>
> I like Hartline but I do not think he's worth #1
> WR money. Again, someone like Jordy Nelson is, I
> think, a pretty good comparison for contract
> purposes - and, frankly, that's being generous to
> Hartline in overall production but that's in
> deference to the difference in QB play.

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Finshady, your one word hit the nail right on the head -- "good." He is a good receiver who had a really good year. How many TDs did he have? Granted, RT missed him on a few, but he also dropped a few potential TDs.

Would I want him back? You bet! But I would be looking for that #1 receiver with plans of making Hartline my #2 (or possibly #3, depending on what happened during the offseason). and I would pay him what he is worth, not what other top-notch WRs make.

Miami isn't necessarily low-balling him. They are just looking for a fair price for what they recognize as "one good season." Teams don't get their money back when players have a poor season, so....

Tsstamper, I agree with what you said.

Every New England fan I know wants to sign him to replace Welker. They're convinced the Dolphins organization is just stupid enough to let them do it.

chrisnnavarre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every New England fan I know wants to sign him to
> replace Welker. They're convinced the Dolphins
> organization is just stupid enough to let them do
> it.


I live in New England and i've heard nobody say that in person. I've heard it discussed on local sports talk once, but nobody I know personally is wishing for that. Welker remains very popular up here, despite his dropping that pass in the SB last year. I guess the key to a Cheatriots' fan's heart is having an attractive wife and a hair transplant.