Again, I will say this....as I have numerous times over and over.


I want whoever the Dolphins FO wants at #8.

If Tannehill is on the board and we pass on him, I am totally fine. I dont care. I want the player that is best available for us, that our FO feels will be the best player in a Dolphins uniform at that time. No matter who the player is.

All those top guys I like, I am wishy-washy on Coples, but all others I am totally fine with.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

man, A and O, what has this FO done which has given you such blind faith in them? the track record is such that whoever they pick is more likely than not the WRONG move. I'll give them slack on a QB selection because that is the new folks who'd be opining on that

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Im not sure I have faith, but what I know is that the main idiot in charge is gone, Bill Parcells.

We have a great talent evaluator in Ireland making the picks. I really have no choice but to support and hope he makes the right pick.

Being pissed off at a certain pick does me no good. I cant call Ireland up and tell him to switch the pick, so who cares.

All you can do is be excited about the pick, and hope it works out the best, no matter who the selection is....

and that is the camp I am in.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

given our many needs, I don't think they can really screw up at #8 unless they (1) trade up for Tannehill, in which case I will be royally pissed; (2) reach on a guy like Floyd or Nick Perry or Weedon; or (3) draft Reilly Reiff, and to a less extent DiCastro, because it is not a smart use of resources to keep drafting OL #1 overall (and in the top 10).

So I'd pretty much be happy with Ingram, Coples (I like Ingram more), Tannehill, or taking one of the "elites" at another position should they fall (Cliaborne, Richardson, etc). Hard to mess this up.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> man, A and O, what has this FO done which has
> given you such blind faith in them? the track
> record is such that whoever they pick is more
> likely than not the WRONG move. I'll give them
> slack on a QB selection because that is the new
> folks who'd be opining on that


Ireland has had total control for what?... 18 months?? For one, maybe two drafts?

What has he done in that time to warrant the torrent of hatred that some send his way.

Sure he asked des Bryant an indelicate question a few years ago. Get over it.

He's drafted well. He didn't over pay with picks or cash for has been/never will be players like orton or kolb and stole Reggie bush for johnathan Amaya.

He just hired his first staff, who seem pretty impressive by all accounts.

Maybe he doesn't deserve blind allegiance but he certainly deserves a chance to do his job and a little faith in his decisions...at least until he shows he isn't up to the task.

Berk i think AQUA is just been a homer.....What else do we have but hope and pray that this organization starts to do the right thing and sign the right players from today on.

We are holding on to hope.

I have very little of that already.

I know i have little hope...But i liked this so far...


1. We have no adquired over the hill QBS from other teams


That right there is a huge plus in my book.


2. We are not trading our draft picks..

Huge as well.



I like the fact of keeping the draft picks amunnition to build this team through the draft for the future...

I know i wont get to see CUBA free and standing on its own two feet..

But i think i will get to see the phins making the playoffs again one day...

At least make it the AFC Championship. I will take that anyday.

Oh and beat the jets in the first round....I can freakin die after that.

truth ireland has done *adequately* only if you give him zero blame for the picks which went wrong while Parcells was here and all of the credit for the ones that did not. Which I don't, of course. He's done nothing to merit Ross keeping him around after firing Sporano. Add to that the fact that he's made himself into a negative around the league with his personality.
I will give him another chance but he's done nothing much to earn my faith.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> truth ireland has done *adequately* only if you
> give him zero blame for the picks which went wrong
> while Parcells was here and all of the credit for
> the ones that did not. Which I don't, of course.
> He's done nothing to merit Ross keeping him around
> after firing Sporano. Add to that the fact that
> he's made himself into a negative around the
> league with his personality.
> I will give him another chance but he's done
> nothing much to earn my faith.

His personality is meaningless if he builds a winner. Just look at NE.


And your description of how he could rate as adequate is unfair.

I give him NO credit for any moves, good or bad, while parcells was here. None. Nada. Zip.

Anyone who does is only guessing and likely cherry picking in order to support their assumed position.

Judge Ireland on what he's done since parcells checked out either right before or shortly after the 2010 draft. What moves did he make? What players and trades did he pass on? What staff did he hire?

I know some will whine on about how nobody wants to play for us because he's not meeting them at the airport with kittens and flowers.

That's BS. The players that don't want to be here aren't here because of MONEY and because parcells built an outhouse not a title contender.

I'm not worried about my gm being popular. I'm worried about his ability to find talent. Show me how Ireland has been anything other than pretty good since parcels left.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2012 08:58AM by THE Truth.

I can't see how you can give Ireland a pass for the 3 or 4 years he was an integral part of the FO. And Parcells stepped back at least a full year before he actually left. You must be drinking from the same kool aid jug as Ross.

But accepting your premise, his one and only draft here I'd say was a solid B-. Drafting Pouncy, he is a good player, but he took a Center the highest one ever has been drafted. So he damn well better be a good player. Then we have Thomas---jury is WAY out on him, better RBs went lower and we trade up to get him. So far not so good. Moving on to Clyde Gates, he's got potential but sure didn't show it last year. Charles Clay I think could be a good player but who knows if he'll be anything other than just OK. Not a terrible draft, but sure not overwhelming.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't see how you can give Ireland a pass for
> the 3 or 4 years he was an integral part of the
> FO. And Parcells stepped back at least a full year
> before he actually left. You must be drinking from
> the same kool aid jug as Ross.
>
> But accepting your premise, his one and only draft
> here I'd say was a solid B-. Drafting Pouncy, he
> is a good player, but he took a Center the highest
> one ever has been drafted. So he damn well better
> be a good player. Then we have Thomas---jury is
> WAY out on him, better RBs went lower and we trade
> up to get him. So far not so good. Moving on to
> Clyde Gates, he's got potential but sure didn't
> show it last year. Charles Clay I think could be a
> good player but who knows if he'll be anything
> other than just OK. Not a terrible draft, but sure
> not overwhelming.


So parcells stepped back a full year before he left in sept 2010 but you don't include the 2010 draft in your assessment? Or trades and signings/ hirings.

Thank you for illustrating my point about cherry picking.

Go back to march 2010. That's 6 months before parcells left. Add up the good moves versus the bad moves in the draft, free agency and trades and then factor in the staff he hired and then we can debate whether he's done a bad, adequate or good job.

berk,

You DO realize that you are arguing with someone who has defended every move made by the Front Office and coaching staff whether it be Parcells, Sparano, Ireland, whoever, don't you?

I've been pointing this out all along. He's the only one on this board who has defended EVERYTHING the team has done for at least the last three years.

Moreover, he has the same philosophy and advocates the same moves as we all condemn.

--------------------

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> given our many needs, I don't think they can
> really screw up at #8 unless they (1) trade up for
> Tannehill, in which case I will be royally pissed;
> (2) reach on a guy like Floyd or Nick Perry or
> Weedon; or (3) draft Reilly Reiff, and to a less
> extent DiCastro, because it is not a smart use of
> resources to keep drafting OL #1 overall (and in
> the top 10).
>
> So I'd pretty much be happy with Ingram, Coples (I
> like Ingram more), Tannehill, or taking one of the
> "elites" at another position should they fall
> (Cliaborne, Richardson, etc). Hard to mess this
> up.

**********************************************************

Your comment about trading up for Tannehill will be a major debate for years. My opinion? Do that ONLY if the brass has a conviction that Tannehill IS THE GUY and will be the guy for the next 10 years. The only way any of us will know if that was a smart move will be a couple of years down the road after Tanny has played. Until then, none of us knows anything. There is a lot of smoke being blown in the NFL right now, i.e., Cleveland taking Tanny at 4, KC trading up to grab him, Minny being open for trade talks, etc., so Miami just has to concentrate on what it is they are willing to do or not do.

So, if Miami has a conviction, but not a strong one, on Tanny, then they will wait to see if he drops to them at 8, if not, then they either (1) take another player at 8 or (2) trade back to get an extra 2nd rounder.

IMO, after the first 5 or so picks, the "elite" players are gone and what's left can be taken at pick 15 or so. Reiff nor DeCastro will be picked at 8 (by Miami). If either is there at 15 (or wherever Miami ends up in their trade down) then it's possible they will grab one of them there.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can't see how you can give Ireland a pass for
> > the 3 or 4 years he was an integral part of the
> > FO. And Parcells stepped back at least a full
> year
> > before he actually left. You must be drinking
> from
> > the same kool aid jug as Ross.
> >
> > But accepting your premise, his one and only
> draft
> > here I'd say was a solid B-. Drafting Pouncy,
> he
> > is a good player, but he took a Center the
> highest
> > one ever has been drafted. So he damn well
> better
> > be a good player. Then we have Thomas---jury is
> > WAY out on him, better RBs went lower and we
> trade
> > up to get him. So far not so good. Moving on to
> > Clyde Gates, he's got potential but sure didn't
> > show it last year. Charles Clay I think could be
> a
> > good player but who knows if he'll be anything
> > other than just OK. Not a terrible draft, but
> sure
> > not overwhelming.
>
>
> So parcells stepped back a full year before he
> left in sept 2010 but you don't include the 2010
> draft in your assessment? Or trades and signings/
> hirings.
>
> Thank you for illustrating my point about cherry
> picking.
>
> Go back to march 2010. That's 6 months before
> parcells left. Add up the good moves versus the
> bad moves in the draft, free agency and trades and
> then factor in the staff he hired and then we can
> debate whether he's done a bad, adequate or good
> job.

I was just responding to your comment that you give "no credit" for anything that happened when Parcells "was here." He officially left the team right before the 1st game 2 years ago. True, he mentally checked out way before that. But even if we include the past 18 months instead of the past 12, I don't think that moves the needle much. The one indisputably good signing we made was Wake, and that happened way before Parcells left.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I don't know, Elway , Marino and Kelly were all pretty Great. All Taken in the 1st round.

yes TCC even better than my example. all 3 are in the HOF, can't get better than that.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Well, Kelly being number three in that group, maybe, but Phil Rivers and Ben are just to me starting or franchise QBs, Eli might be on the edge of greatness.

LOL. Whole point is I doubt in 10 years folks will be talking about the great draft of LUCK-RGIII-Tannehill.

I'd be happy if Tannehill is as good as Eli, Big Ben, or Rivers. He doesn't need to be Marino for it to be a great pick. Hell I'd settle for him being as good as Chad Pennington of 2007.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

And the problem with your logic chyren, is that he doesn't have to be as good as RGIII or Luck. Tannehill doesn't have to be the next greatest prospect to be a franchise QB. He can be a Rivers or Roethlisberger or Eli and that would be awesome. Tannehill also has the potential to be as good as RGIII or Luck but he is not at their level right now.

Tannehill grades out as a top 20 prospect by most experts. It's not like he has a second round grade. If your drafting at 8 and need a Qb and think that a guy with a top 20 grade is your guy then you take him. You don't think about value and try to trade down to 15 to grab him.

When it comes to finding a guy you have a conviction in as a franchise QB then you throw value out the window because if your right then it doesn't matter how high you drafted him.

I have faith that Ireland will pick the best players for our team, no matter who that player is.

You guys think I am this Ryan Tannehill homer who only wants him....no, that is far from the truth.

I want the BPA for our team. If Ireland and Philbin believe in Tannehill and want him, then I do too. If they think he sucks, then I dont want him.

Same for Coples, Ingram, Floyd, and whoever else is a Dolphins target.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

where is this "inside" info that ireland didn't want pat white, pat turner, etc? hmmm, maybe from ireland? not a very reliable source.
reminds me of the "wanny wanted eddie moore speilman wanted anquan boldin" day. Guess what, wanny and speilman both sucked.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the problem with your logic chyren, is that he
> doesn't have to be as good as RGIII or Luck.

Stop right there. He's only being picked 5 picks later.

Shouldn't he at least be in the same ballpark?

-----------------------------

there isn't one player we could take at 8 that can even approach luck and rg3. that can't be the test. those 2 guys are head and shoulders above every other prospect in the draft.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.