ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You all are missing the point. The MOST
> SIGNIFICANT factor will be whether Sherman thinks
> we ought to draft Tannehill.
>
> Second in important is THREE GAMES.
>
> What is THREE GAMES?
>
> Last year we went 6-10.
>
> A switch of THREE GAMES will give us 9-7 and
> potentially a trip to the playoffs.
>
> That will be seen as getting better and making
> progress.
>
> Only people on this board, not even regular fans
> not on this board, are foolish enough to not be
> satisfied with ANYTHING LESS than a SuperBowl
> appearance.
>
> If we only miss the playoffs next year by a
> process of elimination, most of the fans who have
> the commonsense lacking here, will say, "Hey,
> we're getting better."
>
> Therefore, if Sherman is not hot on Tannehill and
> if they believe that giving Moore and Gerrard a
> more solid line and adding to the pass rush will
> swing and give us another 4 games, no Tannehill.
>
> In the final analysis, Ireland's future depends
> not on the picks he makes in this draft but on the
> success of the team next year. He is smart enough
> to know that.
>
> Even if he did something as crazy as pick Osweiler
> or Cousins at no. 8, there would be a tremendous
> furor NOW IN APRIL but the bottom line is that the
> fans are going to, by necessity, wait and see NEXT
> YEAR how that works out.
>
> Conversely, Ireland KNOWS that even if he bows to
> mob pressure and picks Tannehill, it won't do him
> any good if the team goes 6-10 next year again.
> Nobody is going to say give Tannehill another year
> or "wait until next year 2014 when Tannehill will
> be ready to start."
>
> But if Tannehill plays and we still go 6-10, even
> those who are crying "TANNEHILL!" the loudest NOW
> will fade in the WOODWORK and not defend him as
> those of us who screamed AGAINST picking Tannehill
> brutalize and savage Ireland, along with all of
> those phony draft analysts that some of you so
> haughtily respect while disparaging Mel Kiper just
> simply move on to talking about how great Matt
> Barkley and the 2013 crop of QBs are.
>
> I bet when that happens most of you hypocrites on
> this board will be talking as if you were on MY
> SIDE all along. Hell, if that happens, I'm going
> to remind each and every one of you putzes of your
> hypocrisy and I WILL REVIVE your posts.
>
> So if Ireland has any common sense, he will make
> the draft choices that will bring him the BEST
> PROBABLE RECORD FOR NEXT YEAR and to hell with
> this Long-range-plan-for-a-QB nonsense.
>
> If we go to the playoffs next year, that will
> quiet down the fans.

***********************************************************

I don't think we are all missing the point. You are correct in saying it's what Sherman thinks of Tanney. Most of us have been saying that all along. If he thinks highly of him, then more than likely Miami will draft him (if he is there at 8). If Sherman doesn't think that highly of him, then Miami will "probably" go a different way. I still say if that top notch, immediate playmaking guy is not there, then Miami must trade down (giving that they have a trading partner).

We all want Miami in the Super Bowl, but we are all realistic enough to know that won't happen this season. The best we can hope for is the playoffs, then see what happens. But Super Bowl? too many holes to fill.

I don't see getting better as improving on the record. I see getting better as playing really well, being in every game, and hopefully improving the record. And you are correct -- Ireland's future depends on how well the Fins play this season and if they are competitive. I highly doubt that Ireland is concerned about his job in depending on how Tanney plays, if he is the guy they draft. He knows Tanney will probably sit out his first season and hopefully take the job his second season.

I disagree that those who have clamored for Tanney will fade into the woodwork if Tanney plays and Miami ends up 6-10. Most of us will realize it was his first year, however....I will give you if he plays like a deer lost in the headlights, then I will be concerned. But, Tanney supposedly has all the intangibles, so we can only hope he is successful.

I don't think you really believe that Miami will be in position to draft Barkley next year, do you?

Not so sure, either, that if Miami gets to the playoffs next year (without that rookie Q that we fans will quiet down. Moore and Garrard aren't going to be those QBs that will be top-of-the-line QBs (elite). Unless I am mistaken, they both only have one year remaining on their contracts, and it is highly doubtful both, if either, will be resigned.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> That idea ignores the facts in front of us to
> presume that Ireland fears for his job at this
> point.

Ireland barely survived the firing of Sparano, he has been in fear for his job since last year...


> Clearly he doesn't.
>
> Just look at the facts as they have played out:
>
>
>
> Fact #1 - Ross chose Ireland as his GM over
> offering total control to Cowher and Gruden 18
> months ago.
Most profesionals believe that all of the responsibility in one guys hand and coaching is not normally a good thing.. It is to much, Secondly you are assuming that.. Cowher and Gruden were never coming here.... and that was not the decding factor for either one of those guys..

> Fact #2 - Ross chose Ireland over giving total
> control to Jeff Fisher this off-season.

Again major assumptions on your part... Fisher choose the Rams for positioning, Fisher clearly stated how much he loves Irleand and would have hired him to be his GM in ST Louis...

> Fact #3 - Ross and Ireland took the unusual step
> (for this franchise) of publicly acknowledging
> the need for, and their prioritization of
> acquiring a franchise QB.

I am not sure what point this is?


> Fact #4 - Ross reaffirmed his choice of Ireland
> despite "enormous" fan pressure (some of those 20
> protesters were pretty big) to fire him after
> "missing" on Peyton manning and "whiffing" on Matt
> Flynn.

Ross reaffirmed his choice of Sparano last year, by giving him a brand new contract, and then booted him not even a year into it... means nothing

> Fact #5 - We didn't overpay for Matt Flynn or RG3.
> Clearly this indicates that Ireland isn't
> reactionary or in fear for his job. If he was,
> we'd have over paid for Flynn and drafted a QB, OR
> we'd have been in a bidding war with Dan Snyder
> over RG3 so he could say he did everything in his
> power to get a QB. We did neither of those
> things.

We were in waiting for Manning and the Redskins closed the deal on RG3. Flynn was offered a deal, he choose to sign with Seattle for obvious financial reasons... I dont think that means anything. If he had signed Flynn and Flynna failed and didnt look good early, Ireland would have been fired on the spot.. You are missing the point of the extra year in developing a QB... Flynn has "already been developed" signing Flynn put all of Irelands future on next year
>
> I agree with the notion that the only way Ireland
> gets fired (eventually) is if he fails to go all
> in on a QB in the draft.

.....and we do bad next year.... IF we have a winning record under Matt Moore next year, Ireland would be safe... But huge risk, all on next year, which is what Ireland is trying to avoid with all of this IMO.

> I think the facts clearly indicate he's not at a
> point in his tenure where he has to do that now,
> nor does he FEEL as though his job is on the line
> right now and he must do something/anything to
> secure his position for even another year or two.
>
> I know a lot of you guys don't like him, but the
> seat he's sitting in isn't going to start to get
> warm until he fails to have attached his future to
> a high profile prospect AFTER next years draft.

I disagree, Ireland's seat has been hot for a long while... At the end of the day, he is not very well liked in south florida, maybe you dont realize how hot is seat is here, becasue you dont live here... Fans dont go to games and support continues to decline, Ireland will be sacrificed in hot flash of the pan, if Ross thinks it helps keep some season tickets sold... Miami DOlphins and MR Ross's business has been on a decline under Mr Ireland's tenure as the top football guy here in south florida... If that continues into this year, Ross will fire him... His business can not handle to continue to decline... ROss is already in dangerous territory with the fans and local support... When fans buys billboards for thousand of dollars a month and fly plane banners around the stadium instead of spending the money on the DOlphins, There is a problem and Ross knows it.... He either has to win now, or provide hope for the future, or he is gone...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Great post, Truth.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Sorry Truth I disagree, although I am not surpirsed alot of you out of towners are out of touch with south florida.

Mr Ross is trying to make the dolphins appeal to people that live in south florida. He and Ireland are pretty much hated by most locals, especially season ticket holders... I can't even explain the resentment that these guys have built up down here from the fan base... Ireland is in trouble.... Ross is in trouble, the dolphins business is a rotten egg at this point...
WHen you spend the type of money the phins are charging for tickets and you sh*t all over them as Ireland and Ross has done, there is tremendous resentment and negativity attached to the brand...
It is easy for you to say, he is not on the hot seat becasue you dont have a financial interest vested into the Dolphins anymore...You are thousand miles away and your support is limited to watching commercials on a TV....
SOrry if I feel you and many other out of towners who comment are many years out of touch from the pulse of local fans here in south florida.... They need and want and have to sell tickets, you could love Ireland and Ross and it wouldnt help them one bit... They could honestly care less, they want to sell people who are actually in their demographics, which many of you are not remotely... Which is why you are out of touch...I would be out of touch on the local beat for where ever you all live obviously...But I find it funny that you all think you are in touch with the pulse of the season ticket holder Dolphins and it base, which is who DEE and Ross are trying to court....Ireland isnt helping them...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 03:03AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry Truth I disagree, although I am not
> surpirsed alot of you out of towners are out of
> touch with south florida.
>

Fair enough.


> Mr Ross is trying to make the dolphins appeal to
> people that live in south florida. He and Ireland
> are pretty much hated by most locals, especially
> season ticket holders... I can't even explain the
> resentment that these guys have built up down here
> from the fan base... Ireland is in trouble....
> Ross is in trouble, the dolphins business is a
> rotten egg at this point...


If they win, all that will be forgotten. Ross knows this.

I'm not contesting that you are dialed into the local vibe better than us. That's clearly true. But sometimes when you are so close to the action you can't see the forest from the trees.

The fact that Fans have put Ross and Ireland in the same boat in your estimation only binds them together. It makes it "them" against the world to prove those fans that hate them wrong.

See, the problem with what you wrote is that Ross isn't "in trouble". He's the OWNER. He's not going anywhere. He knows all he has to do is win and people will show up.

And he's so freaking wealthy he doesn't need to make money with the Dolphins. Its his toy. I doubt he's going to give it up no matter how angry SOME of the locals are.



> WHen you spend the type of money the phins are
> charging for tickets and you sh*t all over them as
> Ireland and Ross has done, there is tremendous
> resentment and negativity attached to the
> brand...
> It is easy for you to say, he is not on the hot
> seat becasue you dont have a financial interest
> vested into the Dolphins anymore...You are
> thousand miles away and your support is limited to
> watching commercials on a TV....


Fans don't put GM's in the hot seat.

Owners do.

Fans can apply pressure to ownership but they don't control the decision making process.

Ross is trying to prove he's not a flaky owner to the WORLD not just S.Florida.

He's stepped on his schwantz a few times early on. He's not about to do it again by firing his GM 18 months after handing him control.

He didn't get where he is in life by making bad business decisions and THAT would be a bad business decision, especially in light of his actions of late which have been orchestrated to present an image of stability.




> SOrry if I feel you and many other out of towners
> who comment are many years out of touch from the
> pulse of local fans here in south florida.... They
> need and want and have to sell tickets, you could
> love Ireland and Ross and it wouldnt help them one
> bit... They could honestly care less, they want to
> sell people who are actually in their
> demographics, which many of you are not
> remotely... Which is why you are out of touch...I
> would be out of touch on the local beat for where
> ever you all live obviously...But I find it funny
> that you all think you are in touch with the pulse
> of the season ticket holder Dolphins and it base,
> which is who DEE and Ross are trying to
> court....Ireland isnt helping them...

This isn't 1950.

Its not as hard to stay "in touch" with the local beat as you think.

We have the internet now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 05:13AM by THE Truth.

Truth, It is not only distance, it is money... I have been in a family of season ticket holders since 1970... My father who was a die hard fan, will not go to games anymore, and if you bring up the Dolphins, he gets this disgusted look on his face, and says the team, ownership and management are a disgrace... This is a guy, thathas probably spent close to $400,000 on the orgnanization over the last 15-20 years... He resents what they have done...
Locals friends of mine who have Dolphins license plates, jersey at every game, etc, have taken the license plates off their cars...
The one common factor is that everyone despises the most, Ireland and Ross a close second...
What I mean by out of towners, is you dont spend real money buying tickets, concessions, parking, etc... I went to 3 games last year, the tickets were $700 a piece each game. I sit ten feet away from Mr Ross. People in those seats boo him alot.....Guess what people next year will be in that section with bags on their heads, right in front of Mr Ross...I heard many talk about it at the last game last season, as form of protest.. The Ireland airplane banner, billboards, money comes from that same section to pay for those anti Ross, Ireland protest..... Lets just say, when you are local you have money in the game, when you are from a thousand miles away, you are an observer... Ross wants more people to put money in the game and less to observe... That is going horribly in the wrong direction... That is what I am saying... SO when people with no skin in the game from over a thousand miles away, tell me Ireland is fine, I am sorry I have to roll my eyes, and chuckle...
Ross and Ireland,philbin, etc are holding all these conference calls with season ticket holders, not out of state fans, and not observers..
Season tickets use to be a local currency almost, a priveledge. You give them away to employees, business associates,etc...Now the tickets are a burden..People dont want them, and could care less.. SO many businesses I am part of, let alot of tickets go, over the last 5 years, becasue they are worthless, and locals dont want to support these clowns if they dont have to, after what they have done... It is a bad product, bad management, and overpriced....Zero accountability and arrogance, seems to be the rule for the management... The problem when management doesnt hold themselves accountable, is the customers do, and they have and will continue to, by not supporting the team financially as they had in the past.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2012 06:47AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth, It is not only distance, it is money... I
> have been in a family of season ticket holders
> since 1970... My father who was a die hard fan,
> will not go to games anymore, and if you bring up
> the Dolphins, he gets this disgusted look on his
> face, and says the team, ownership and management
> are a disgrace... This is a guy, thathas probably
> spent close to $400,000 on the orgnanization over
> the last 15-20 years... He resents what they have
> done...
> Locals friends of mine who have Dolphins license
> plates, jersey at every game, etc, have taken the
> license plates off their cars...
> The one common factor is that everyone despises
> the most, Ireland and Ross a close second...
> What I mean by out of towners, is you dont spend
> real money buying tickets, concessions, parking,
> etc... I went to 3 games last year, the tickets
> were $700 a piece each game. I sit ten feet away
> from Mr Ross. People in those seats boo him
> alot.....Guess what people next year will be in
> that section with bags on their heads, right in
> front of Mr Ross...I heard many talk about it at
> the last game last season, as form of protest..
> The Ireland airplane banner, billboards, money
> comes from that same section to pay for those anti
> Ross, Ireland protest..... Lets just say, when you
> are local you have money in the game, when you are
> from a thousand miles away, you are an observer...
> Ross wants more people to put money in the game
> and less to observe... That is going horribly in
> the wrong direction... That is what I am saying...
> SO when people with no skin in the game from over
> a thousand miles away, tell me Ireland is fine, I
> am sorry I have to roll my eyes, and chuckle...

No skin in the game? Really?

The arrogance that comes across in that statement is incredibly offensive even though I don't believe you intended it to be.

What you "locals" are missing is that every other fan of this team has skin in the game.
They all buy Dolphin plates for their cars, covers for their bar-b-que's, player jeresys, hats, etc etc...and they all put them away when they are embarrassed by the product on the field. The idea that that is a S. Florida thing is extraordinarily narrow minded and ego-centric.


I, for one, have spent THOUSANDS of dollars on NUMEROUS occasions to fly to games from NY and California to S. Florida. To attend games in Buffalo, NE, NY, etc, etc. I've spent Thousands more for DirecTv's NFL package over the last 15 or so years.

This really isn't a matter of who's checkbook is bigger or who has spent more following this team. I've invested in it emotionally, in ENEMY territory, for 40 years! What's that worth in fan points? You guys got it easy down there. Everybody likes the same team. try going to school with 1000 teenagers who are all Jets & Giants fans when you are one of the only Dolphin fans in the building.

Frankly, when I hear the argument that local fans are the real fans or have more skin in the game, I just have to roll my eyes and chuckle.

The jerseys you wear arent any more Aqua and Orange than the ones we wear. The pride you feel when the team is successful isn't more special than what we feel. One thing is different though, the ridicule you have to put up with when we stink isn't even on the same planet as what fans in enemy territory put up with.

You guys put a bag on your head or get 20 idiots to protest across the street and you think you are making a statement. All you are doing is providing the rest of the country with a punchline to a bad joke that WE have to hear every day.




> Ross and Ireland,philbin, etc are holding all
> these conference calls with season ticket
> holders, not out of state fans, and not
> observers..


Two calls to guys that were at the protest.

Lets not exaggerate.


> Season tickets use to be a local currency almost,
> a priveledge. You give them away to employees,
> business associates,etc...Now the tickets are a
> burden..People dont want them, and could care
> less.. SO many businesses I am part of, let alot
> of tickets go, over the last 5 years, becasue they
> are worthless, and locals dont want to support
> these clowns if they dont have to, after what they
> have done... It is a bad product, bad management,
> and overpriced....Zero accountability and
> arrogance, seems to be the rule for the
> management... The problem when management doesnt
> hold themselves accountable, is the customers do,
> and they have and will continue to, by not
> supporting the team financially as they had in the
> past.


I'm a Yankee fan and live about 45 minute from Yankee Stadium. I started going to games with my friend in the early 1980's. The place was empty. Ownership was an embarrassment. Every day they did something reactionary in the media or with the staff, front office or personnel.

then around 1990 the owner got suspended for two years and figured out he needed to let his front office alone and let them do what they do, not to listen to the fans on the radio bitching about not making the playoffs again. 4 years later they had rebuilt their organization and made 15 straight playoff appearances winning 5 titles.

They didn't have a change in ownership.



In the from 1980 to 1995 you could get a ticket ANYWHERE in Yankee stadium for nothing. they couldn't give those seats away. Now you can't get a ticket without a gun or a brinks truck in your back pocket.


Things change. But they don't change quickly. Rebuilding a franchise takes TIME. Ireland and Ross have been at this for 18 months. They aren't going to cave to fan pressure at this point.

Eventually, ownership will bend to financial pressure that comes with an empty building. But not after 18 months.

that's not just my opinion, its based on the ACTIONS ownership and our GM have taken.

If you want Ireland out, forget about the Dolphins for a year or two. Get all the rest of the locals to stay home. Don't protest. Its a wasted and empty gesture. Just don't show up.

Do that long enough and you'll get what you want. You'll actually apply the pressure you think you are now. Pull that off and Ireland will get shown the door in a year or two if he hasn't gotten a franchise QB.

But there isn't anything you can do about Ross. He isn't going anywhere.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth, It is not only distance, it is money... I
> have been in a family of season ticket holders
> since 1970... My father who was a die hard fan,
> will not go to games anymore, and if you bring up
> the Dolphins, he gets this disgusted look on his
> face, and says the team, ownership and management
> are a disgrace... This is a guy, thathas probably
> spent close to $400,000 on the orgnanization over
> the last 15-20 years... He resents what they have
> done...
> Locals friends of mine who have Dolphins license
> plates, jersey at every game, etc, have taken the
> license plates off their cars...
> The one common factor is that everyone despises
> the most, Ireland and Ross a close second...
> What I mean by out of towners, is you dont spend
> real money buying tickets, concessions, parking,
> etc... I went to 3 games last year, the tickets
> were $700 a piece each game. I sit ten feet away
> from Mr Ross. People in those seats boo him
> alot.....Guess what people next year will be in
> that section with bags on their heads, right in
> front of Mr Ross...I heard many talk about it at
> the last game last season, as form of protest..
> The Ireland airplane banner, billboards, money
> comes from that same section to pay for those anti
> Ross, Ireland protest..... Lets just say, when you
> are local you have money in the game, when you are
> from a thousand miles away, you are an observer...
> Ross wants more people to put money in the game
> and less to observe... That is going horribly in
> the wrong direction... That is what I am saying...
> SO when people with no skin in the game from over
> a thousand miles away, tell me Ireland is fine, I
> am sorry I have to roll my eyes, and chuckle...
> Ross and Ireland,philbin, etc are holding all
> these conference calls with season ticket
> holders, not out of state fans, and not
> observers..
> Season tickets use to be a local currency almost,
> a priveledge. You give them away to employees,
> business associates,etc...Now the tickets are a
> burden..People dont want them, and could care
> less.. SO many businesses I am part of, let alot
> of tickets go, over the last 5 years, becasue they
> are worthless, and locals dont want to support
> these clowns if they dont have to, after what they
> have done... It is a bad product, bad management,
> and overpriced....Zero accountability and
> arrogance, seems to be the rule for the
> management... The problem when management doesnt
> hold themselves accountable, is the customers do,
> and they have and will continue to, by not
> supporting the team financially as they had in the
> past.

********************************************************

$700 per game? My wife would kill me.

Sorry but money is a factor, when you pay for a loser it hurts worse then when you dont pay for it... It is almost a feeling of being a masochist, you pay for pain...lol.
As a Dolphins fan, I feel like a masochist everytime I open my pocket book for them....

I agree with the mutual emotional investment..
I am just telling you that people get pissed when they are charged alot of money and the team sucks... They take it personal, that these clowns cant get it together.
The currency in this town, is now Heat tickets... Everybody begs for them, and could care less about Dolphins tickets... Just reality in this town at this point.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder, why are you paying 700 dollars for a ticket? You just said in an earlier post that tickets are easy to get and people can't give them away. ???