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          A Fair Deal?
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Current Page: 2 of 5
Re: A Fair Deal?
Date: May 27, 2011 08:48PM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > > >
> > >
> > > Except for one thing...there will be 800-1000
> > of
> > > the best players in the sport out there who
> you
> > > are blackballing from your new NFL. How
> long
> > do
> > > you think it takes before they hook up with a
> > few
> > > rich guys and form a new league where the
> > players
> > > are partners with the owners?
> > >
> > > My guess is about 15 seconds.
> >
> >
> > Really? Hmmm. You know of 32 Billioniares
> with
> > Large Arena stadiums and Network deals in place?
>
> > Not to mention 70-80 yrs of History with teams
> > LOVED by Millions?
> > No, the NFL will do just fine. Most player will
> > stay. Especially if the deal is fair . Where
> else
> > can they make what they are making. The Tom
> > Brady's might leave but F them. Who needs them
> > anyway?
>
>
> There are 412 Billionaires in the US as of 2011.
> That means that for every Jerry Jones there are
> TWELVE other insanely wealthy people with enormous
> egos and who are looking for new toys to play
> with.
>
> There are 119 division 1A college football
> stadiums in the US and there are 30 major league
> baseball facilities. ALL of which would be more
> than willing to charge rent to a professional
> football team for a few years.
>
> If the NFL cut loose all of the current players
> and started from scratch they'd STILL have to
> negotiate a deal with incoming players.
>
> If the USFL could get off the ground 30 years ago
> without any players, you can bet there will be
> billionaires lining up to join a league which
> already includes the top 1,500 players in the
> sport on the PLANET.
>
> If the NFL did what you suggest it would be dead
> and buried inside 3 years. Why is that you ask?
>
> If you kicked all the current players to the curb
> and they went and formed a new league with new
> money where they were partners instead of peons,
> where do you think the best of the new players are
> going to want to play every year? In the NFL
> with scrubs and no union or in the new league with
> the best of the best and the most money and the
> better work environment?
>
>
> Of course they won't have their shinny new NFL
> stadiums on day one, but after 2 or 3 years those
> facilities should be available on the cheap.
>
>
> Bottomline is that the TV money is going where the
> ratings are and on that first Sunday in February
> do you think America is tuning in to watch Pat
> White lead the Miami Dolphins against the Tom
> Brandstrater and the 49'ers...or Tom Brady and the
> Hartford Whalers go up against Aaron Rodgers and
> the Chicago Fire?




Man You have this all figured out . Its just that easy. eye rolling smiley

NEWSFLASH. Billioniares are Billioniares because they don't waste money and take crazy investments on a whim. 412 huh? Your gonna find 32 that are just Nutso ready to invest 1/2 their fortune in a crazy hairbtained new leaugue that could blow up in their faces?

Giants , and Greenbay fans going to route for the wardogs or whatever you want to name the new teams? Your dreaming. Enjoy the rest. wake up tommorrow and come back when you want to make sense and actually think things through. eye rolling smiley

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 02:53AM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dolphaholic Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > So Crowder, if they're sharing the expenses
> > > shouldn't the owners have to open the books
> to
> > > show what's true expenses? Sounds "fair" to
> me
> > no?
> >
> >
> > I am sure the owners will be more then willing
> to
> > open up the books, if the players agree to pay
> 50
> > percent of cost,...
> > The players currently want them to open the
> books,
> > and not pay any cost..very different scenario
>
>
> That's just not the case.
>
> The old system took $1B off the top for expenses.
> The players FIRST proposal gave them another $200
> million ON TOP OF THAT.


it is the case, the owners got a billion but the players got 59% a majorty percentage. The new deal is 50/50....
and again 200 million is 6.25 million a team. Do you think the owners would lift a lockout for 6.25 million a team, come on... lol...you must be drinking smiley, if you buy that one....

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 02:57AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but under your stats the owners were getting 1
> billion off the top so it's not fair to say they
> were splitting everything 50-50


No, they dont never happend, there has never been a 50/50 split plus a billion that is the slide of hand trick I was refering to. The players are creating an illusion with their offer. There offer is a 50/50 deal, but the owenrs have to pay all expense out of their 50 and the players 50 is pure profit... Dont get it confused...
There is no billion on top.... The 50/50 deal is 6.25 million a team better, then the old bad deal which split 41/59 plus a billion....

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 02:58AM

The owners would accept a 50/50 plus a billion offer in a split second. That is not the offer, nor has it ever been

And finally, anyone that honestly believes, a new leauge could come in take over and pay the players what they make now, is completely dillusional.
In other words, they believe there own BS, in order just to justify their position...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2011 03:01AM by Crowder52.

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Date: May 28, 2011 03:57AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:03AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:16AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:20AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:26AM

Phinfans, in your math they gave back 200 million total with the offer, but that is based on your math, and under your math I am to understand the 9% is basicly equal to 1.2 billion. With revenues of 9 billion how is that the case? I think your math doesnt quite add up to me.
My math does not equate that 1.2 billion is 9 percent of 9 billion?

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:30AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:35AM

I see the potential for a new leauge, sure, but in no way could that league pay the players, anywhere like they are paid now. So if the fight is about money, why would they take 5 times less the pay to play somewhere else. That is all, it just doesnt make any sense, it is an argument you can try and make, but it just doesnt add up, literally....

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:37AM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The owners would accept a 50/50 plus a billion
> > offer in a split second. That is not the offer,
> > nor has it ever been
>
>
> Great news. I wish I were on their e-mail chain
> like you, life would be so much simpler.
>
>
> >
> > No email chain, sorry, just read the news and twitter from all involved and make my judgements. It is in the new everyday about ten times a day, and not much else on football, trust me I look, I am starving for some real football news...

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:38AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:45AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 05:49AM

The current CBA gave the owners 41% plus a billion. The new offer from the players took away the billion but gave the owners 9% increase in profits from 41% to 50%. That is 9 points.
So you are telling us that the extra 9% increase is worth 1.2 billion dollars in order for, this new deal to be 200 million better then the last deal.

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 06:02AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: May 28, 2011 06:17AM


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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: May 28, 2011 07:10AM

The problem with your math is that you are working with the wrong set of numbers.

Current offers on the table:

A ) Players offer = 151 million per team = 4.832 billion

B ) NFL offer...... = 141 million per team = 4.512 billion


.....................................difference first year is 320 mill

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Date: May 28, 2011 09:03AM

>
> Again, you should take the time to read what I
> post before you go postal over it.
>
> 1) The new league possibility was only brought up
> as a response to another poster who said they
> should just cut the current players loose and
> start over with college players and a 20 round
> draft.
>
> 2) I never suggested a new league would pay
> players what they make now. I said they'd make
> the players 50/50 partners on everything.
> they'll still have to build and sell their brand
> and product.
>
>
>
> Anyone that doesn't see the potential for a new
> league under those circumstances doesn't just lack
> imagination, they have zero understanding of the
> history of pro-football in this country.




BEEP BEEP BEEP! Careful Phins2 is backing up...............eye rolling smiley

I never said they should start over with just college players. I said a 20 round draft. ALL current players contracts are dismissed and disolved. They can enter the new draft and get paid what the owners think they are worth. THATS how most buisness's are run.

These players Sign Huge contracts and recieve garanteed salaries and then DO NOT fufill their commitments. Then you get players like Revis from the Jets. he's one that actually exceeded his salary , so he sat out and begged for more. TWICE. had he sucked think he would have given money back? Look at What happened to the raiders with Russell. The Owners take ALL that risk. Just as the Panthers are taking on Cam Newton. The Players in this league and their agents are so Full of shit. They want everything their way.

Look what Ricky Williams did to us 8 yrs ago. He just left. Had the Dolphins sued him for his money he would have just claimed bankruptcy and then they lose all rights to him.

Are you kidding me? These Players want Money BEFORE they earn it. Who is behind Most of this shit? the Greedy selfish Agents. Sorry. Glad to see these owners take a stand. Hold their feet to the coals. Teach them who the real bosses are.

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 28, 2011 11:34AM

Hey treasure, it ever occur to you that a draft is illegal unless the players agree to it? Kinda puts us back square one doesn't it?

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Date: May 28, 2011 12:45PM

How is it illegal? Players like revis threaten to sit out UNLESS you pay Him. They have Rookies who never walked on a field before doing the same thing. WTF do they think they are? Have have the balls to say they want 50/50? Sorry Charlie. The Super agents are the ones killing this sport. They sit around just dreaming of new ways to stick it and get money before their client does a thing. Garanteed money is B.S.

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 28, 2011 02:24PM

Hoe is it illegal, are you serious?

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 28, 2011 03:01PM

Jim B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem with your math is that you are working
> with the wrong set of numbers.
>
> Current offers on the table:
>
> A ) Players offer = 151 million per team = 4.832
> billion
>
> B ) NFL offer...... = 141 million per team =
> 4.512 billion
>
>
> .....................................difference
> first year is 320 mill


thanks for the insight Jim, with the players shell game it is hard to decipher what the real numbers are... Like you said how did a 50/50 deal give the players 10.4 percent more as you stated. DE SMith and the NFLPA is trying to fool veryone as to what their real offer is. they say 50 percent but even that is gross and the other side is net, 2 entirely different values... But not the way the NFLPA would sell it to you...drinking smiley

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Date: May 28, 2011 03:31PM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hoe is it illegal, are you serious?


No I've been joking with you the entire Thread. eye rolling smiley

Looks like more then a few Judges agree as well.

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 29, 2011 07:41AM

If its not illegal how come you don't see the 32 best law firms in the country holding a "draft" for the top lawyers coming out of law school? Or the 50 best Hospitals drafting the top med students and telling them where they have to live in the country? It's this little thing called labor laws that the NFL (and all pro sports leagues for that matter) skirt in order to operate and maintain a competitive balance, the only way to skirt those labor laws is to have the players as a whole (union or not) agree to those rules. If its not illegal, how come the owners haven't lifted the lockout and imposed the rules they want?

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Date: May 29, 2011 03:27PM

I'm not even going to address your comparisions to "drafting Lawyers and Doctor's" Its a beyond silly comparision. I'll let you figure out why.

As far as illegal goes, I believe you are using the wrong term. Call it unethical, unprofessional, improper, but its not illegal. Same as a player like darrel revis deciding to go against his contract and sit out for more money, Its everything I stated above , but not illegal. And you can always bet there is a money hungry$$$ Super Agent behind it. Bending the law and the rules once again to squeeze more and more from these owners.

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 29, 2011 04:25PM

Oh no Treasure, please explain how my comparison is "silly", and if the draft and free agency rules break any kind of labor laws, that would be considered illegal, not on the same par with murder/rape/dealing drugs, but illegal none the less. Name one other industry in the country other then pro sports that holds a draft?

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 29, 2011 04:34PM

And i'll ask it again

"If its not illegal, how come the owners haven't lifted the lockout and imposed the rules they want?"

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Date: May 29, 2011 06:08PM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh no Treasure, please explain how my comparison
> is "silly", and if the draft and free agency rules
> break any kind of labor laws, that would be
> considered illegal, not on the same par with
> murder/rape/dealing drugs, but illegal none the
> less. Name one other industry in the country other
> then pro sports that holds a draft?



So Mr Ross has to be concerned about Jail Time? confused smiley

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Re: A Fair Deal?
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: May 29, 2011 06:48PM


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