Miami Reppa Wrote:
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> Again... the problem is that thigpen and henni are
> the same guy except at this stage of development
> henni is much more polished. If he goes down
> penni lead us to an 11-5 season so I have much
> confidence in him. So now what does thigpen add
> to the fold if these two are health? nothing!



What does Thigpen add if he is the same type of player as Henne.........uh, how about not much of a drop-off then if something were to happen to Henne!

That's pretty valuable

Thigpen is not at all the same type player as Henne. In 2008, Thigpen led all NFL QBs in rushing. He's a great fit in the wildcat for this reason. And he does not have Henne's arm. Henne is a pure pocket passer with a rocket arm. Thigpen is a scrambler with an adequate arm. Their games are not similar. But, it's Thigpen's ability to run the ball that makes him a great fit as the backup to both Henne and Pennington. He can do some of what they thought Pat White was going to do.

Thigpen will be the backup, Penny will be the emergency inactive QB. I can see us running some wildcat with thigpen. There's no role or spot for Pat White, since we never attempted to move him to an other postion

OK all good points, thigpen and henni are not completely the same, i stand corrected. I guess I meant more from the perspective of being young and having a live arm. Anyhow I think if there was a QB competition was between thigpen and penni for the number 2 spot. However with a few bad decisions on thigpens part and penni coming in looking like a starter on that drive to end the half puts penni in the #2 spot and thiggy outside of the store looking in...

And still noone has answered why pat white has not played in a single preseason game (other than "he sucks", sorry I would appreciate a better answer then that). If he is in a qb battle he would have played, the fact that he has not played tells me that he is not in a battle and we know henni is the starter so the obvious (or maybe less obvious) battle was stated above.

MikeO Wrote:
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> if in
> drills where there is no defense and you take a
> snap and have 5 WR's go out for a pass UN-COVERED
> and you can't make up your mind which wide open
> UN-COVERED WR to throw too and you take off
> scrambling...yes scrambling agaisnt
> air...nothing...like a 5 year old in his basement
> fooling around by himself with a football in his
> hand. WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD YOU PUT SOMEONE LIKE
> THAT ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD IN A PRESEASON GAME!
>
I still can't believe White did that. If fans were there to see that he'd been laughed out of town by now. I can't imagine what coaches were thinking when he pulled that stunt.

Who is this Pat White person anyway? Has anyone ever seen him? Does he truly exist?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

MikeO Wrote:
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> I'm sorry but Pennington did NOT look like a
> starter on that drive. YES, he led to TD drive.
> But he threw up a duck of a pass that Brandon
> Marshall went up and saved Pennington's butt on.
> That pass was pathetic on every level. The guy's
> arm is shot.

Pennington knows where everyone should be, what the defense is trying to do, how to shift protections, what plays to call. He is a coach at the qb spot, how many other teams have that type of player? He is what you get if you mixed P.Manning with a spaghetti arm . So as a backup he is irreplaceable, I dont care if that 30 yard hailmary bomb to marshall is the furthest he can chuck the ball.

if in
> drills where there is no defense and you take a
> snap and have 5 WR's go out for a pass UN-COVERED
> and you can't make up your mind which wide open
> UN-COVERED WR to throw too and you take off
> scrambling...

I did not follow the practise very well, can you let me know where I can find that info? was it on youtube, or written about? post a link or something for me.

Anyhow you may be right, he may not be an NFL qb. I am a rutgers alum so I watched this kid from his rookie year at WV and under rich Rodriguez I thought that this kid will never be a qb he is just a scrambler. However his senior year under stewart he actually improved alot as a passer since they did not run that spread offense. He is no doubt a work in progress and one year does not tell you squat about what a qb can do.

MikeO Wrote:
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> I'm sorry but Pennington did NOT look like a
> starter on that drive. YES, he led to TD drive.
> But he threw up a duck of a pass that Brandon
> Marshall went up and saved Pennington's butt on.
> That pass was pathetic on every level. The guy's
> arm is shot.
>

Hey, it was complete, wasn't it?

When I saw that I was thinking that Pennington has probably done that tons of times with Marshall in practice, and knows that Marshall can go up and get it, and he knows that he can just toss it up, and he knows that Marshall wins that against JAX's secondary.

Against other defenses or with other WRs, Pennington would have done something different. But that the thing - Pennington KNOWS what he is doing.

DolfanMike Wrote:
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> Against other defenses or with other WRs,
> Pennington would have done something different.
> But that the thing - Pennington KNOWS what he is
> doing.

I might believe that, if it wasn't for that playoff game against Baltimore a couple years ago.

montequi Wrote:
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>
> I might believe that, if it wasn't for that
> playoff game against Baltimore a couple years ago.

Baltimore was clearly the better team. Pennington didn't lose that game, or entire team was clearly over their heads. Bad routes by WRs, poor blocking, coaching the wildcat to go nowhere. I had no expectations going into that game, and I'm certainly not holding it against any player on that team.

Seriously, to go from 1-15 to hosting a playoff game is a major accomplishment. And Pennington was a HUGE part of that.

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I might believe that, if it wasn't for that
> > playoff game against Baltimore a couple years
> ago.
>
> Baltimore was clearly the better team. Pennington
> didn't lose that game, or entire team was clearly
> over their heads. Bad routes by WRs, poor
> blocking, coaching the wildcat to go nowhere. I
> had no expectations going into that game, and I'm
> certainly not holding it against any player on
> that team.
>
True, but Pennington's noodle arm was a huge part to losing that game. When he was rushed he had nowhere to go with the ball. When he was backpedaling he couldn't complete a pass, even a short one. Henne would have been able to complete those passes and make Baltimore pay for blitzing, but Penny couldn't, so the Ravens continued to blitz play-after-play.

Lol is what I will be doing when we trade a QB for a draft pick!! I don't think White will be the one being traded.

Mia1 Wrote:
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> Lol is what I will be doing when we trade a QB for
> a draft pick!! I don't think White will be the one
> being traded.

I'm still saying we WON'T be trading Penny or Thigpen. It would be suicide to do so. Thigpen will be the 2nd QB, and Penny will be the 3rd.

Well we will know in about two weeks.

montequi Wrote:
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> Mia1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lol is what I will be doing when we trade a QB
> for
> > a draft pick!! I don't think White will be the
> one
> > being traded.
>
> I'm still saying we WON'T be trading Penny or
> Thigpen. It would be suicide to do so. Thigpen
> will be the 2nd QB, and Penny will be the 3rd.

No way you put a guy with barely 3 or4 games of pro experience ahead of penni when you have a team that is playoff bound...

montequi Wrote:
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>
> True, but Pennington's noodle arm was a huge part
> to losing that game. When he was rushed he had
> nowhere to go with the ball. When he was
> backpedaling he couldn't complete a pass, even a
> short one. Henne would have been able to complete
> those passes and make Baltimore pay for blitzing,
> but Penny couldn't, so the Ravens continued to
> blitz play-after-play.


Pennington's arm was a huge part as to why we were playing that game to begin with. Bottom line, the entire team was in over their heads with Baltimore.

I agree that Henne is a better QB today, and no need to bash Penni to make that point. But two years ago, Penni was the better QB. Judging by Henne first few games last year, we would have seen a lot more INTs if he were playing against B-more.

we won't get a 6th rounder for pennington. he had a rag arm before his latest shoulder surgery and no one will give up anything for a QB who can't throw 20 yards.

as for thigpen, we could probably get back a 5th rounder for him. but as he is our "true" backup QB (white is useless and probably gone and no one knows if Pennington can even play anymore) to give him up for that is just stoopid.

bottom line: only way we make a trade is if someone offers a 2d or 3d for thigpen and I don't see that happening.

DolfanMike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > True, but Pennington's noodle arm was a huge
> part
> > to losing that game. When he was rushed he had
> > nowhere to go with the ball. When he was
> > backpedaling he couldn't complete a pass, even
> a
> > short one. Henne would have been able to
> complete
> > those passes and make Baltimore pay for
> blitzing,
> > but Penny couldn't, so the Ravens continued to
> > blitz play-after-play.
>
>
> Pennington's arm was a huge part as to why we were
> playing that game to begin with.
Actually, it was Pennington's head and his ability to make up for his weak arm with his amazing intellect.

> Bottom line, the
> entire team was in over their heads with
> Baltimore.
I still think with a better QB we could have won that game.

>
> I agree that Henne is a better QB today, and no
> need to bash Penni to make that point. But two
> years ago, Penni was the better QB.
I agree wholeheartedly. Henne wasn't ready as a rookie to lead us in the playoffs, but he still had the stronger arm. Baltimore figured out how to neutralize Pennington. Henne would have been tougher to shut down completely. Remember how Marino destroyed the '85 Bears? That was a man you could NOT shut down!

> Judging by
> Henne first few games last year, we would have
> seen a lot more INTs if he were playing against
> B-more.
I'm not sure about that. Penny looked horrible in that game.

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> montequi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mia1 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Lol is what I will be doing when we trade a
> QB
> > for
> > > a draft pick!! I don't think White will be
> the
> > one
> > > being traded.
> >
> > I'm still saying we WON'T be trading Penny or
> > Thigpen. It would be suicide to do so.
> Thigpen
> > will be the 2nd QB, and Penny will be the 3rd.
>
> No way you put a guy with barely 3 or4 games of
> pro experience ahead of penni when you have a team
> that is playoff bound...

I just worry about Penny's arm.

montequi Wrote:
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>
> I just worry about Penny's arm.



Can't worry about something that doesn't exist

Arizona might cut Leinart (they already benched him). If so they will need a back-up QB or a QB to compete with Anderson.

Would be more than happy to send them Pennington for a late round pick. IF they want Thigpen, well it will cost a little more but everyone has a price. I am sure Miami does!

What's a late round pick mean? 5th? Because I'd rather have Pennington on our team than have an extra 6th or 7th. Maybe even more than a 5th. Problem is, no one would cough up a 4th for Pennington.

I want Penny as a pseudo-assistant-QB-coach. I'd rather keep him until he retires. I think he's more valuable than simply a backup QB for us.

As for Thigpen, he's our most viable back up at this point.

Panteraize Wrote:
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> What's a late round pick mean? 5th? Because I'd
> rather have Pennington on our team than have an
> extra 6th or 7th. Maybe even more than a 5th.
> Problem is, no one would cough up a 4th for
> Pennington.


I would take a 5th for Pennington. I would want a 3rd for Thigpen. A conditional 4th for Thigpen and I would probably do that too. Where if he played so many snaps the pick moves up to a 3rd, 2nd, 1st...etc

I see no point in trading Penny or Tyler in order to hang onto a scrub.

The management simply needs to get rid of Pat and move on. He is no value to this team whatsoever so keeping him would be absolutely pointless. This team doesn't need a project, this team needs players who can step in and play NOW if need be.

If White had to take the field because of QB #1 & 2 being injured for the long term, our season would be over. That is something I just cannot accept.

Remember THIGPEN is a UFA next year. He can walk and we get nothing for him. Because we probably won't overpay for a back-up QB.

So for the right deal I see us trading him in a heartbeat.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
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> This team is at a point where it needs to have
> only one goal: To win a championship.
>
> Like it or not we are married to Chad Henne. If
> he goes down, our season is over anyhow, at least
> so far as winning a title. I know some don't
> agree with this, but if I'm not contending for a
> title, I'd rather get the best draft position I
> can so I give myself the best chance to build to a
> championship.

If the '72 Dolphins had that attitude, they'd never have won the championship, let alone gone undefeated. A good backup QB is essential!!

I agree 100%. If Henne goes down, our season is over. Period. This isn't 1972 where Earl Morall only had to throw 6 pass attempts a game and the team could still win. In this league you are throwing it 25-40 times a game. Without a legit QB your toast.

So if we can trade valuable assets like Penny, Thigpen and get draft picks OR a player who can help us win....I'm all for it.