He caught balls on basic routes! Are there people here who truly believe that Ginn is a #1 WR? Ginn has less playing ability than Camarillo. Ginn is a bigger name cause he was drafted in the first round but Camarillo is a better WR

Camarillo is no good at all and the knee injury has taken al of his speed.

He has better hands and is not afraid of getting hit. Are you going to argue that point?

What about the pass? The pass to Fasano and Ginn were both off target. They were high and abit long. If Chad puts it on the money, then we don't have to dive or lunge for the ball, they are easy TD's! Everyone made mistakes last night, that could of helped us win the game. Ginn's miss is the most glaring one, because it was at the end of the game. However,as I have already stated, if Ginn doesn't make all his other plays during the game, then we would never of even had the chance for him to miss that ball! The offense did their job and the defense gave it away! We shouldn't have been in that position to begin with!!!!

Ranger1, have you ever heard of Marvin Harrison? He always avoided hits as well! I guess you wouldn't want that type of player on our team as well! Ginn catches the ball over the middle on a consistant basis! He just knows that he is not going to run people over for extra yardage. So why try for a few yards and risk a fumble or injury? Get down and play another play! He helped put us in a position to win and the defense let them done!

I agree with you that this is a different situation. However, the point I'm trying to make, is that Ginn is that type of WR. He is no where near as polished as Harrison and may never get there. But, he does deserve the chance to prove he can do that. There are very few WR's in this league, that if they had to start their career off playing for the same team Ginn has had to play for, would have faired much better. Ginn's first year should be considered a complete wash! I don't care who you are, you weren't going to succeed with that team! If Ginn had played all 3 years with either of the Mannings, I'd bet you he would be far ahead of where he is now!

ranger1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He caught balls on basic routes! Are there people
> here who truly believe that Ginn is a #1 WR? Ginn
> has less playing ability than Camarillo. Ginn is a
> bigger name cause he was drafted in the first
> round but Camarillo is a better WR


%%% You have every right not to like Ginn but lets be fair. So now they were all "basic routes" I didn't see anyone else getting open and making catches on those basic routes. You can't deny his route running has greatly improved and so has his defense recognition and when Henne takes over here soon you will see explosive plays down the field. $$$$

Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce made a living doing the same thing while he isn't in that class yet he is making very big strides. He doesn't have some of te natural instincts of a lot of wr but also remember that isn't his natural position. true he did pull up on that post route but I would much rather see that than he gets smoked and is out for a few weeks. (unless that was a game ending situation then you have to sell out) the kid is improving right before our eyes and no one will acknowledge it because of his draft position. he may never be aan elite receiver but I can definately see 70plus catches 1000yds and 6 or 7 td's.unfortunately we haven't been able to take advantage of his speed but help is on the way. Henne will be playing sooner rather than later I believe.

Randy Moss: leads league in receptions after week 2 with 16. His avg. is 10.3 per catch. Two catches over twenty yards. 8 first downs.

Ted Ginn J.r: 13 receptions. average of 10.3 yards per catch. 1 catch over twenty yards and 10 first downs.

week 17 2008: Santonio Holmes coming home party (week 17 of his 3rd year). Since then he has been a monster. Looks like Ginn may be coming along possibly a little faster. Everyone drops some passes. Even the best of them.

Cry me a river you weanies!!! Great game Ginn! Tough drop but you have come a long way and you are on your way to becoming really good. One drop shouldn't erase the what was accomplished for what probably was your best pro game thus far. Yes we lost the game and the point is to win but, you had and outstanding performance and will only get better!

Go Phins!!!!

finman34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Randy Moss: leads league in receptions after week
> 2 with 16. His avg. is 10.3 per catch. Two
> catches over twenty yards. 8 first downs.
>
> Ted Ginn J.r: 13 receptions. average of 10.3 yards
> per catch. 1 catch over twenty yards and 10 first
> downs.
>
> week 17 2008: Santonio Holmes coming home party
> (week 17 of his 3rd year). Since then he has been
> a monster. Looks like Ginn may be coming along
> possibly a little faster. Everyone drops some
> passes. Even the best of them.
>
> Cry me a river you weanies!!! Great game Ginn!
> Tough drop but you have come a long way and you
> are on your way to becoming really good. One drop
> shouldn't erase the what was accomplished for what
> probably was your best pro game thus far. Yes we
> lost the game and the point is to win but, you had
> and outstanding performance and will only get
> better!
>
> Go Phins!!!!

%%% and why are we letting the defense off the hook giving up 27pts on 35 freakin plays, not a good night at the shark %%%

I'm still waiting for Ginn's breakout year.




I'm not a Ginn hater, but I don't want the guy on the team if he's incapable of making the clutch catches for us. Ok, so he caught some over the middle. THAT'S HIS JOB. As someone else said, those are routine catches. He had several imcomplete passes as well as several which were completed. That's not outstanding play, that's average play. But the important part is, when push comes to shove, and the game is on the line, will you catch the ball - or will you flail your arms, cross your wrists and let the winning TD go right through your hands? Which is is? Well we know which is is, we saw it on Monday night.

Receivers who can't catch unless the ball is thrown perfectly, and they're ready for every pass, become corners. But of course, Ginn can't be a corner he'd get squashed like a bug. So he's the supposed speedy guy who runs out there for the deep route. That's his one trick. Well he didn't catch some deep routes from Henne in preaseason and he didn't catch the one on Monday from Pennington.

I maintain that he's a decent receiver. But he's not a number one draft pick. Someone mentioned his receiving average and compared him to Moss. Give me a break. I looked at the average yards per catch for Monday's game and Ginn's was the same as Bess, an undrafted free agent.

For the Ginn lovers I would say this much: I don't think we're using his talents very well. I think he'd be a great 2nd receiver on another team with a spread offense. Not a number 1 on our team. Trade him or use him. Maybe we should have picked up another receiver for this season to run opposite Ginn, and we'd see better performance out of him. But the coaches in their wisdom figured...nah, we don't need a wide receiver. Sparano said even yesterday on the radio, naw we don't need one.

And if the other hope is that when Henne gets in eventually, he can get Ginn the ball, then let's put Henne in. Let's find out who can play and who can't, and we'll know who to trade. But we're going on our 2nd year without a solid QB/Number 1 receiver combo. And that's unacceptable.

Everyone keeps bringing up Ginn's speed, but let's look at some of the most successful WRs we've had in the past:

Oronde Gadsden
O.J. McDuffie
Mark Clayton
Nat Moore

None of those guys was a speedster, but ALL of them made clutch catches and often lead the team in receiving yards and/or TDs. I know Irving Fryar and Mark Duper had speed, but I'd settle for the 2nd-coming of Oronde Gadsden at this point!

Hey Wayne don't take this the wrong way but I ain't drinking the koolaide. For 3yrs I have refrained from dogging Ginn. I don't dog or praise rookies like others love to do. In my mind regardless of who they are they have to prove themselves first. The only rookie that has gotten my attention is SS but still not sold on him until he plays more. Look at Russell down in OAK. Best QB ever blah blah blah, have you seen him play? That is the story year after year with draft picks, in this league as a rookie ragardless of what round you were drafted you ain't nothing until you're somebody.

Ginn has had three yrs and I am not making my comments on the drop pass, his rt running has improved good job, it only took him 3yrs. Ginn will truly never be a #1WR and I think anyone who is honest can see that. The sooner we can admit it the sooner we can move to finding one.And those 8 & 10 yd patterns are great but sometimes you need a little more. Great players make great plays consistantly not once in awhile.

Hell we drafted the family right, maybe he has a brother we can play

Com'on guys I understand what each of you is saying so I'm not arguing but Ginn had over ten catches for over 100 yards in this game...yes, he dropped the potential game winning catch but he did his job and did it at a high level. The other recievers should be taken to task for not doing their jobs very well...what did everyone else do? No much. Ginn should make more big plays to be sure but he did a great job in the Colts game...now against the Pats he disapeared.

Any receiver that has numbers like Ginn had in this game is not to blame for the loss.

This team has too many problems right now to single out Ginn as the culprit.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Com'on guys I understand what each of you is
> saying so I'm not arguing but Ginn had over ten
> catches for over 100 yards in this game...yes, he
> dropped the potential game winning catch but he
> did his job and did it at a high level. The other
> recievers should be taken to task for not doing
> their jobs very well...what did everyone else do?
> No much. Ginn should make more big plays to be
> sure but he did a great job in the Colts
> game...now against the Pats he disapeared.
>
> Any receiver that has numbers like Ginn had in
> this game is not to blame for the loss.
>
> This team has too many problems right now to
> single out Ginn as the culprit.

RESPONSE: See my post in "I'll Man up."

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Everyone keeps bringing up Ginn's speed, but let's
> look at some of the most successful WRs we've had
> in the past:
>
> Oronde Gadsden
> O.J. McDuffie
> Mark Clayton
> Nat Moore

These weren't bad players by a long shot but.......................I'm sure they have to thank dan marino for taking their game to the next level.

DolphinSam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm still waiting for Ginn's breakout year.
>
>
>
>
> I'm not a Ginn hater, but I don't want the guy on
> the team if he's incapable of making the clutch
> catches for us. Ok, so he caught some over the
> middle. THAT'S HIS JOB. As someone else said,
> those are routine catches. He had several
> imcomplete passes as well as several which were
> completed. That's not outstanding play, that's
> average play. But the important part is, when
> push comes to shove, and the game is on the line,
> will you catch the ball - or will you flail your
> arms, cross your wrists and let the winning TD go
> right through your hands? Which is is? Well we
> know which is is, we saw it on Monday night.
>
> Receivers who can't catch unless the ball is
> thrown perfectly, and they're ready for every
> pass, become corners. But of course, Ginn can't
> be a corner he'd get squashed like a bug. So he's
> the supposed speedy guy who runs out there for the
> deep route. That's his one trick. Well he didn't
> catch some deep routes from Henne in preaseason
> and he didn't catch the one on Monday from
> Pennington.
>
> I maintain that he's a decent receiver. But he's
> not a number one draft pick. Someone mentioned
> his receiving average and compared him to Moss.
> Give me a break. I looked at the average yards
> per catch for Monday's game and Ginn's was the
> same as Bess, an undrafted free agent.
>
> For the Ginn lovers I would say this much: I
> don't think we're using his talents very well. I
> think he'd be a great 2nd receiver on another team
> with a spread offense. Not a number 1 on our
> team. Trade him or use him. Maybe we should have
> picked up another receiver for this season to run
> opposite Ginn, and we'd see better performance out
> of him. But the coaches in their wisdom
> figured...nah, we don't need a wide receiver.
> Sparano said even yesterday on the radio, naw we
> don't need one.
>
> And if the other hope is that when Henne gets in
> eventually, he can get Ginn the ball, then let's
> put Henne in. Let's find out who can play and who
> can't, and we'll know who to trade. But we're
> going on our 2nd year without a solid QB/Number 1
> receiver combo. And that's unacceptable.


I'm not comparing Ginn and Moss because thus far there is no comparison. I was simply pointing out that Teddy is only three catches from being tied with league leader in receptions who happens to be Randy Moss. They have the same average per catch. Ginn is only behind Moss in yardage by 30 and Ginn has converted 10 first downs to Moss's 8.

Obviously you cant compare receivers as far as careers but two games into this season their stats are comparable and I find it hard to believe people already want to give up on him because of a dropped touchdown (like good recievers dont do that once in a while) when he has great production overall in the first two games.

I hope he continues to get better. He has made a few steps forward as a pro and it looks as though he only has one step left. make the big game winning play under pressure. His route running has become really good. We know he has speed. He is actually making catches up the middle in traffic instead of fearing them. I could be wrong but I think he is ready to break out here pretty quick. I hope so anyway!

Go Phins!!!!

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>>
> This is the fundamental difference between my
> opinion and yours (and quite a few others). The
> two phrases "he dropped the potential game winning
> catch" and "he did his job and did it at a high
> level" do not belong in the same sentence. He
> did his job, but not at a high level. Making that
> catch would have put his performance at the high
> level.
>
>
> For the record I don't think he's to blame, and
> don't believe he's the culprit (despite my
> multiple posts on the subject). I think our
> defensive problems were so obvious that it's
> hardly worth arguing. I've been concentrating my
> posts on Ginn's and Pennington's performances
> because there seems to be more disagreement there.

Exactly my point. Ginn did not lose us the game but he did not win us the game either. He is simply not a number 1 WR.

Your going to be waiting forever for Ginn to break out. Lol he might Break out to the sideline though. lmao

Ted Ginn 5'11" 178 lbs
Calvin Johnson 6' 5" 235 lbs

Calvins breakout season came in his second year. He is a big pysical WR who is better than Ginn. However, it is silly to compare them, they are different types of WR's. Johnson can push people around and Ginn can't. That's why I compared him with the smaller guys.

Ok Wes Welker, ten times the player Ginn will ever be, hell i perfere Bess over Ginn, at least Camarillo, and Bess got enough heart to take the big injury hit. Hartline looks promising too. The only thing that i like about Ginn is his speed, but what happens when he lose's that, Jerry Rice was the best version of Ginn. Im not mocking Ginn, im simply telling the truth. Wes Welker what 5"9, and was a great dolphin player, who is ten times better than Ginn.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2009 09:02PM by MiamiThunder.

Pure speed only gets you so far. Who would you rather have, Renaldo Nehemiah or Jerry Rice? When Ginn came into the league all he had was speed. Sure, he's improved his route running, but it's his 3rd (!!) year! He's not a rookie anymore. He should already be an effective receiver. Beating your man means nothing if you don't catch the ball!

Exactly Monti. He should already be established. But he is to much of a puss to be a solid wideout, trade him for anything.

Not true for most WR's! Most WR's inluding your beloved Welker took 3 years or more to get going! What you seem to be missing is that even Welker had to learn to play at the Pro level. Ginn's first year was on one of the worst football teams the NFL has ever seen! He has only played 2 games in his 3rd year and he has already gotten off to a better start than the previous 2 years. I'm not sure how some fans don't isten to the experts, when they same these same things! You would be one of them and I'm quite sure that if Ginn continues to get better, you will be the first one to change his position! That seems to be your way!