OL sucks but Thill is responsible for 25% or more of the total.

We all know his pocket awareness is inferior and needs tons of work in the offseason.

Sacks don't affect his missing wide open throws.

KB better watch out, not allowed to speak the truth on here. You must repeat Tannehill is greatest ever!

He id not the best ever but he has indefinite potential.

I 100% agree. Thill has indefinite potential and yet to be determined playoff skills.

At this point he has more to prove than he has proven.

No one is going to confuse him with a legit N F L franchise coitusback at this point.

BNF.

Gotta give him some time to develop....It would be a shame if we let him go and he becomes something special somewhere else.


He is not there yet..Not even close .But we fans like to believe he will be great one day if given the right weapons.(OL, good running game and receivers that can make plays)

SO HOW long do we wait?

It's not a set in stone rule, but I'd say 90% of the time in the NFL of the past couple decades, a QB who will be top tier shows it in the first couple years. Now mind you I'm not talking about a Tom Brady who sat behind an established starter. Nor am I happy with a Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, etc who backs in to a super bowl on a stacked team that then all go to the highest bidder in free agency. I don't think that is what any of us want for our team. We want a 'Great' QB who can, yes singlehandedly if needed, make us a relevant and competitive franchise like we were for so long.

So again I ask, HOW LONG? I'm getting to old for all these 5 year experiments 'waiting for the kid to develop'.

Dan Marino took over after one or two games. Bob Griese took over after sitting on the bench one year. Now that's both starting and producing.

As I have said, however, if it's not HOW Tanny is being used, it is Tanny himself that is the problem. I THINK that it HOW Tanny is being used.

But so many on this board defend Philbin as if he were a favorite uncle.

But you can't have it both ways.

Either Tanny is a bust or Philbin is a bust.

I think Philbin is a bust.

I'll give a quarterback a couple of years to those of you who are going to say it is setting the bar too high to compare him with Griese and Marino but there is no way IT EVEN MAKES SENSE to say GIVE THE COACH A COUPLE OF YEARS.

I think that is oversimplifying in both cases.

I understand the want for another Marino...but like some say...want in one hand and shhhh...you get the picture.

I would rather have a complete TEAM than have to depend on one person to carry our team. We tried that with Marino and how many championships did we get?

I love Bob Griese but let's get real. He was never the best QB in his day. His career comp. % is 56.2. He went over 60% (4) times in his 14 year career and they were all partial seasons. he played a full season 4 out 14 years. He is in the HOF because of the 2 SB wins and we won the SB as a TEAM, not because of Bob Griese. His best season he threw for 22 TD's. This alone should tell you how much of team sport football is...We won with a dominant running game and defense and good coaching. We did just as well with a backup as we did with Griese. 192 td's/172 career ints.

I'm not anointing Philbin anything and I don't see anyone around here who is...

I stick up for on occasion because there is hardly ever just one person to blame. If anyone thinks they can trace our deficiencies to one coach than you are not looking at the bigger picture. He may have his faults but there are plenty to be found on this team.

Like I said...I want a team and that means complete and deep. That starts in personnel.

Tannehill doesn't have to be Marino and it doesn't matter if he is or not. It means nothing if you don't have 3 out of the big 4. Offense with an efficient QB at worst, Defense, ST's and coaching. Show me a SB champ and I'll show you a team that fills 3 out of 4 of those needs.

I want championships over a franchise QB. P. Manning has 1. Rodgers has 1. Brees has 1. They are all top 5 QB's and probably future HOF'ers. It's not like they are collecting championship rings on both hands.

We can win a SB with Tannehill and we aren't as far as some may think. Get a couple more o-linemen and we can beat anyone. Get our team healthy (Keller, Gibson) and the sky is the limit. Add a couple better linebackers and we have the best defense in football.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti quote: I would rather have a complete TEAM than have to depend on one person to carry our team. We tried that with Marino and how many championships did we get?

This is best making sense post anybody has made in this board for a while.

Tannehill needs not be like marino. Just be a good qb.

Surround him with a good Oline receivers and good Rbs.....And we can get to the next level...

Defense needs a tweak here or there but not much.

Once you have offense that can sustain long drives then the defense will rest and be much more effective.

I also agree with the rest of the post 100 percent.

RT is projected to throw for over 4100 yards, 23 TD's, and complete 63% of his passes.

Nothing there means he's a bust or even close to one...in fact those numbers are not even close to being bad.

Fix the O-Line and we are much, much better as a team.

'Complete Team' huh? I'd love to have a team like the early 70's Dolphins, late 70's Steelers or 80's 49'ers. But face facts. It's Hard if not IMPOSSIBLE to build AND RETAIN a 'complete team' in this era of free agency. In the last 20 years there have been very few teams that have enjoyed much success with out a top notch QB. The two I could think of are Tampa Bay (Johnson) and Dilfer with the Ravens. They were one and done's NO TEAM has enjoyed any stretch of 'contender' status without an Aikman, Warner, Manning, Brady, Farve, etc.

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Complete Team' huh? I'd love to have a team like
> the early 70's Dolphins, late 70's Steelers or
> 80's 49'ers. But face facts. It's Hard if not
> IMPOSSIBLE to build AND RETAIN a 'complete team'
> in this era of free agency. In the last 20 years
> there have been very few teams that have enjoyed
> much success with out a top notch QB. The two I
> could think of are Tampa Bay (Johnson) and Dilfer
> with the Ravens. They were one and done's NO
> TEAM has enjoyed any stretch of 'contender' status
> without an Aikman, Warner, Manning, Brady, Farve,
> etc.

I never said WITHOUT a top notch QB. I still think Tannehill will be top notch.

I am talking about a complete team the way SF and Seattle have been built over the last few years...finding star after star through the draft. Favre, Warner and Manning have 1 ring each. Aikman had a complete team around him. Perfect example. Thanks for proving my point.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Eesti's points are spot on. Everyone expects Tannehill to be a top 5 QB by his 2nd year. It usually doesn't happen like that. Those QBs are the exception and not the rule. Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Rivers, etc. etc. all took time to develop.

Remember all the Suck for Luck people?

Tannehill: 3115 yds, 62.1%, 6.91 yds/att, 17 TD, 13 INT
Luck: 2793 yds, 58.1%, 6.68 yds/att, 15 TD, 8 INT

Should Indy give up on Luck?

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 'Complete Team' huh? I'd love to have a team
> like
> > the early 70's Dolphins, late 70's Steelers or
> > 80's 49'ers. But face facts. It's Hard if not
> > IMPOSSIBLE to build AND RETAIN a 'complete
> team'
> > in this era of free agency. In the last 20
> years
> > there have been very few teams that have
> enjoyed
> > much success with out a top notch QB. The two
> I
> > could think of are Tampa Bay (Johnson) and
> Dilfer
> > with the Ravens. They were one and done's NO
> > TEAM has enjoyed any stretch of 'contender'
> status
> > without an Aikman, Warner, Manning, Brady,
> Farve,
> > etc.
>
> I never said WITHOUT a top notch QB. I still think
> Tannehill will be top notch.
>
> I am talking about a complete team the way SF and
> Seattle have been built over the last few
> years...finding star after star through the draft.
> Favre, Warner and Manning have 1 ring each. Aikman
> had a complete team around him. Perfect example.
> Thanks for proving my point.

Getting a little carried away with ourselves aren't we? Your only measure of success is 'a ring' then yea, ok. But how many Superbowls, Conference championships, and divisional titles did warner, manning and Farve have? No, a top QB dosen't make you a super bowl champ every year but it usually makes you a competitive team in that respect. Since we lost our last 'top notch' QB we haven't been...

Again its his fourth year as a QB. Why am I the only one who understands that is the reason why he isn't elite yet.

tannehills pocket presense has been improving over the last few games. Hopefully it keeps getting better.

if he counts to 3 and his wrs aren't open he needs to start moving. he's been doing a much better job of that lately.

If im not against tannehill i cannot be against philbin chren....


tannehill was drafted in the first round....a QB.....when philbin came here.....And we hadnst drafter a qb in the first round since forever...

They both should go together IMO. If or when it happens.


Philbin deserves some time to develop as well...He is only been a head coach for one year.

The line has gotten tremendously better since Incognito and Martin are gone.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I don't want either one of them back. I think the chemistry is much better and you don't have "Incog the infant" stirring things up and pretending to be a leader. This will give some of the other guys a chance to step up and lead.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Some people need to realize the job philbin has done in the midst of the incognito and martin dilema.

The Oline is playing better and we as a team are playing better.

IMHO philbin has done a decent job of keeping this team together after the distraction.

And we are the least penalized team in the league! That's right. NUMBER 1 in the NFL. The defense had ZERO penalties vs the Jets this week. That is all coaching. It was a common trait of Don Shula teams as well. We were 3rd last year. Pretty impressive for a first year coach!

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Just a point about Griese that you young-uns need to remember:

The guy called his own plays. No radios in the helmet, no substitutes running in to the huddle with the next play. Not even any hand signals from the sideline. He did it on his own.

Yes, a lot of his quarterbacking was handing the ball off to running backs. But he was extremely intelligent. He did the game planning and game-time adjustments that teams these days hire a half dozen assistants to carry out. And unselfish. Most QBs would throw on 99% of the plays if they were calling the plays. Griese was smart enough to know the best way to attack was to use his running weapons to set up the pass. Often, the running worked so well that he barely even needed to pass. Griese was fine with that, and so even was one of th best receivers of his time, Paul Warfield.

That is all true. It also shows how much the QB position and the league has changed (And defenses are not as vanilla as they were then either).

Bob Griese was 2nd in the NFL in 1971 for TD's with 19.

I guess I thought other QB's were throwing for more yardage back then but it seems that 2500 yards back then was equal to 4000 yards today.

In 1973 only 4 QB's threw for more than 20 td's and 23 was tops.

In 1974 Ken Stabler threw for 26 td's and 2,469 yards.

In 1975 Ken Anderson (from my alma mater and former football team) threw for a whopping 3,169/21!

The leaders....

1976 Bert Jones 3,104 yards/24

1977 Griese led the league in passer rating (87.8) and Joe Ferguson threw/led for 2,803/12

1978 NFL expands to 16 game schedule.

1978 Roger Staubach threw for 3,190/25/16

1979 Roger Staubach threw for 3,586/27/11....Dan Fouts (in his 7th year) threw for 4,082/24/24!!! First QB to go over 4k I believe.

1980 Dan Fouts 4,715/30/24....Brian Sipe 4,132/30/14

1981 Dan Fouts 4,802/33/17

1982 Dan Fouts 2,883/17/11 (9 games but still led league)

1983 Steve Bartkowski 3,167/22/5

1984 If you don't know this, please delete your phins.com account.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers