Crowder52 Wrote:
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> I heard he was sick, with flu like symptoms and
> was practicing anyways.. When he sat down at the
> lunch table with his fellow linemen, they all got
> up and walked away because they didn't want to get
> sick.. It was part serious part joke but Martin
> freaked out over it...
>
> Who knows if that is the truth or just a cover
> story to protect a more sensitive issues like
> being gay..
> They have been ribbing him since he was a rookie
> as the big weirdo...
>
> I imagine it was a tough couple days in the
> linemen room, with the Pouncey drama the day
> before..
>
> I have only heard the gay reference, not about
> Martin, but in saying how mean a locker room can
> be, and an openly gay player would be crucified...
> I didn't hear that Martin was gay...

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Yes, they did get up and walked away, but...they first called him over to sit with them, then...

ChyrenB Wrote:
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> Good take Crowder but berk, uh-uh. Being Black, I
> know what it is like to face a history of
> discrimination. It's not something that you just
> shrug off. Change the facts around to make it
> 1952 and this is the first Black man hired by a
> team and he sits down at the eating table and all
> his teammates get up and walk away.
>
> Do I leave the team.? No, because I'm the type of
> SOB that would laugh and throw their food on the
> floor and tell them to lap it up like the dogs
> they are.
>
> That or be a Jackie Robinson.
>
> It is a shame that in this day and age a person
> who was an All American and was doing great along
> with Pouncey and maybe Ignogito on a crappy
> offensive line would be subject to that.
>
> Now if it was the cold or flu thing, then I agree,
> he has serious problems because whether it was a
> prank or serious, his reaction was over-reaction.
>
> Like I said, we football fans do all our playing
> watching the TV and typing on a chatboard.
>
> There is a point about the money you are losing
> but as far as that "suck it up" and "are you a
> pansy" , some of you guys are getting your "licks"
> on this chatboard and it's sad that that is as
> close as you will come to playing.

I don't get this. are you saying they are bullying him b/c he is black? given than 75% of the team is, I tend to doubt it. If you're saying they are bulling him b/c he is gay, I guess that's possible but there's nothing out there to suggest that other than internet speculation. If he was gay and being constantly harassed about it then yes I agree with your point.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Of course not, berk. I was making an analogy. His race had nothing to do with it.

The last sentence of your post was my thinking.

I hate people like this. They said last year he participated in hazing others and enjoyed it, but then complains when the tables are turned

If that's true you got a point jlyell.

Martin said it was due to the "culture of football" and that the locker room got to him a bit....in a text to Richie Incognito....who BTW the NFLPA is investigating. hmmmm

Martin said "I want you to know it is not you guys fault" but that is what Incog told reporters so...

If you are getting bullied then sometimes you just have to make an example of somebody and lay the smackdown on the culprit....in other words..grow a pair.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

this country is made up of such pu$$ies now. "bullying" has become this loaded word but it's just another word for "people are mean to me." there are now laws against it applying to kids in school. as eetsi said, "grow a pair." a 300+ pound man running home to mommy and daddy over his teammates playing tricks on him and calling him "weirdo"---wtf is up with that.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> this country is made up of such pu$$ies now.
> "bullying" has become this loaded word but it's
> just another word for "people are mean to me."
> there are now laws against it applying to kids in
> school. as eetsi said, "grow a pair." a 300+ pound
> man running home to mommy and daddy over his
> teammates playing tricks on him and calling him
> "weirdo"---wtf is up with that.

Maybe he has depression issues, or bi polar, who knows... But just because he is 300 pounds doesn't excuse him from mental health issues... I am sure there isn't anyone on this site, that hasn't felt overwhelmed before in their life... Well this kids is 24, just got demoted from his job when the team traded for Mckinney.. Is under the media scrutiny which is relentless. Obviously wasn't feeling well and he let the pressure get to him.. Maybe he does just need some time to get it together and put his life back into perspective... I don't think that makes him a pussy... We are all built different... Some people don't respond well to the overwhelming feeling of pressure.. TO much and sometimes it turns on you rather then being able to use it to drive you.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

If he's got a mental issue that's something else. My problem is with the nflpa and anti bullying groups involving themselves in investigating "bullying " of big johnny Martin

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> If he's got a mental issue that's something else.
> My problem is with the nflpa and anti bullying
> groups involving themselves in investigating
> "bullying " of big johnny Martin


Whether or not it is true or not, these groups have made this about protecting a gay athlete in locker rooms from facing ridicule... That is why these groups are acting as they are.... They don't want the black eye one day, or any notion that they would condone bullying an athlete who is gay by his peers in the locker room.... So lets just make it about an athlete being gay and getting bullied... Hence more drama.... It is nonsense I agree... They should just leave the guy alone and drop all the focus on him... He stepped away from the team, for a reason to get away from the spotlight, pressure he was under...... and now these groups and media are keeping the bulls eye on him to make money or promote their agenda... and could give 2 sh*ts about Martin in reality... If they did, they wouldn't be writing a new news story every 4 hours keeping him and his story in the spotlight... smh

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder, good take but berk, that's awful of you. Kids are committing suicide in high school because of bullying. When I went to school in the 60's there was no bullying. You know why? The teachers and the administrators were the bullies.

If they saw a bully, they would humiliate him or her before the class and the whole class would laugh at him or her and he would start crying and would never think of bullying again. But then after the 60's people who sometime express your sentiment got power and took the ability to spank AWAY FROM THE TEACHERS and to them the worse thing in the world was if a teacher laid their hands on THEIR kids who was after all a bully.

Power seeks a vacuum. So when the teachers were no longer allowed to whack bullies across the head like they were allowed to do us in Oklahoma in the 60's, then the bullies were able to thrive in that environment and some poor kid who is just trying to survive and does not want to fight, gets picked on merciless.

I discussed my theories with my nephew who is just like you. He said, "I wouldn't want anyone touching my kid." That's the problem with this f*cking country. Nobody wants to punish the bad guys. From capital punishment to everything.

The f*cking bad guys get to have lobster and steak in prison and in order to convict them, it's not even good enough to have a videotape of them committing the crime.

I say hang the bullies and the bad guys from the nearest tree and throw people who sympathize with THEM, instead of the sympathizing with the victims in jail, as well!

I've had the same discussion with cops who say that they actually get called out by rotten kids who have been whacked by their parents expecting the police to arrest the parents.

That's why this country is in the crapper now berk is because you people no longer want to punish the wicked. Instead you bully the people who are themselves bullied by asking them why they are complaining.

Chyren, hazing is a part of life... When you go to high school, freshman get hazed. When you go to college you get hazed again.. When you are the new guy on the job you get hazed... Hell even around our little community here, the news guys get routinely hazed... Most of it is considered a right of passage.. The idea of seasoning the new guy a bit, give him the rub.... I think that is what Berk is talking about... Not some poor kid with glasses getting constantly ridiculed... Martin is a grown man and successful, well paid, profesional athlete. That most would kill to be in his shoes... So the idea of feeling a little hazing, from a group we would die to have camaraderie with and be hazed by, is a bit out of place and over the top... As Martin said in a roundabout way, and I said earlier, what happen and how he reacted was a symptom, not the cause... Being a profesional athlete isn't always easy, especially after 4 losses in row, having the team trade for a guy to fill your shoes and being demoted...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2013 09:00AM by Crowder52.

Crowder, if you look at the beginning of the thread, I outlined a difference between good natured ribbing or hazing (a ritual for ALL rookies and new members of any club) and bullying. Berk was defending bullying. That's not the same thing.

Chryen- i don't think he was defending bullying, he was saying how ridiculous it is that bullying groups have gotten involved in this issues with Jonathan Martin... He doesn't see it as bullying therefore he is not defending bullying... He is saying how ridiculous it is for these groups to have an agenda and use it in this circumstance...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Exactly my point crowder. Thanks

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Chyren- Do you not agree that bullying has become this loaded word? As was this case of it being used in this circumstance with Jonathan Martin?
DO you not think kids are mean, just like they were when you grew up or I grew up? Is every kid that is mean to one of their peers bullying them? I was a small kid growing up, people use to call me shrimp and all that fun stuff.. It just made me tougher and wittier, god bless them... I learned that at the time being small, made me faster and quicker then all of them... I learned to wear it as a badge of honor, that made me a better person and athlete in the long run... We all have our crosses to bear in life, in one way or another, but those crosses are also what shapes us into who we are.... When my kid worries about being small and competing or being teased, I tell him, there are no excuses, don't make excuses for yourself... You can do anything you put your mind to, but dunk, and that isn't all bad...lol...
By the time I hit puberty my parents and DR's offered to put me on growth hormones... I was happy with myself, and chose against it..I am 5 9 now, and don't regret a bit of what I went through as a child, in fact I savor it... I am glad everything wasn't easy and roses, it builds character...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2013 09:58AM by Crowder52.

Chyren- I don't believe that bullying is any different today then it was when I was a kid... I don't protect my kid from it and don't want his teachers to do it either... Someone is not always going to be there to protect him, and by doing so, you are just preventing him from learning himself how to deal with it and handle his own problems and emotions in life... Parents or teachers that are always trying to protect or handle a childs hardships, are doing that child a dis service in my opinion.. They are handcuffing his/her growth... My Dad told me from a young age, Life is not fair nor did I ever promise you it would be... Adapt, learn and deal... I agree that with all of this over protection and political correctness BS, we are making pussies, and kids or young adults that can't handle the realities of life... Depth of our soul and character is what makes us individuals and special.. You only get that from facing challenges and adversity. Then learning how to overcome... Introduce me to a person who has never faced adversity and overcome, and they got nothing... As a Navy seal who worked for me told me, Pain is weakness leaving your body...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

What a deep discussion over nothing. FK the guy is he doesn't want to play replace him. Why attempt to analyze why, what or who?

As a parent you need to give your child the self pride, knowledge and coping skills to deal with the issues they face growing up.. You don't handle it for them.. You teach them and guide them how to handle it themselves... I think that is why you see what is happening in todays world.. Obviously the kids are not getting the proper guidance and skills taught to them by their parents... And when it comes times to face issues on their own, they break, in one way or another... In Martin's case, I think it is hard to prepare yourself for the pressure's of being a professional NFL athlete.. And with the pressure, media spotlight, losing streak, being demoted, he was feeling down, emotionally vulnerable, and it was getting worse.. What he did was a cry for help... And it seems like he needed help dealing with it all.. I can only imagine that it was a tough spot to be in for a young guy, far from home, and not having much of a support system around him... Putting myself in his shoes, I actual feel for the guy and root for his comeback..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2013 11:32AM by Crowder52.

chatafkup Wrote:
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> What a deep discussion over nothing. FK the guy is
> he doesn't want to play replace him. Why attempt
> to analyze why, what or who?


The conversation went in the direction it went in. lol...On Martin, I guess speaking for myself, I have empathy for the guy... Empathy is not always a bad emotion chata...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Chyren- I never saw any teacher ever handle bullying... If a teacher or parent got involved it just made it worse for the kid.. Because they were not there to protect them, and everybody knew there would be hell to pay eventually, because your parent or teacher was not always around..
I was taught to stand up for people, and having been teased myself, I didn't like it... So if a group of big kids were going to bully somebody weaker, I confronted them and stood next to the outnumbered weaker kid and fought for him... And got my ass kicked plenty of times...But I let the kid know he was not alone, and i would gladly stand up for them. And it normally ended... But that was what it was about... It was handled yourself, not by parents or teachers... That goes no where and most always makes it worse on the victim...

When I was 16 I saw a 14 year old neighborhood kid get his bike jacked by a group of older kids in a car... The kid was on the side of the road crying when i pulled up, and told me who did it.. I went to the bully's house and told the guy I wasn't leaving without the kids bike.. When he didn't do it, I smashed the windows in his bronco, unlocked the door, and took the bike back... The tough guy never left his house... Once again, morals that were instilled into me to stand up for the weak, and do the right thing... No parents, no teachers....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/02/2013 12:29PM by Crowder52.

Saying that you should teach your child to not let little things bother them is like saying water is wet. Nobody is going to give you any great rewards for that statement. But again educate yourself on what's going on today. Do you even know about the girl who hung herself after all of the kids told here that she might as well kill herself. And I know you are going to say that that was just a weak person so I'm going to stop trying to educate you and pray that someone near and dear to you or your friends don't suffer this fate so you have to learn first hand.

Like all CRIMINALS bullies learn to pack together. They also succeed by intimidating witnesses and sending the message that those who are looking on better laugh with them and not give any aid and comfort to the victims otherwise they will get the same treatment.

And what is odd is that THE ONLY ELEMENT THAT SEEMS TO STOP THIS BULLYING IN SCHOOLS TODAY IS THE ATHLETES WHO USUALLY TAKE UP FOR THE POOR KIDS.

YET, here you are on a chatboard devoted to athletes taking up for the bullies who are victimizing kids while the rest of the school looks the other way (like you want to do) EXCEPT the athletes!

Crowder did you hear me talking about the 50's and the 60's? How old are you? Did you experience that failure to get involved by the teachers in the 60's?

Chyren- I do not teach my kid to not let the little things bother him.. I teach him to have the skills to deal with his own problems, that is very different. So don't misinterpret or misrepresent what I am saying.... I grew up in 70's and 80's, graduated high school in the early nineties... Yes I was smacked by a ruler and paddle in school still.. And spanked or belted by my parents... That still went on then...
Bullying didn't happen in front of teachers when I grew up, it happened outside of their view...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

CHyren- What is the saying give a man a fish feed him for the day, teach a man to fish feed him for a lifetime... Same philosophy... Stop a bully from beating up a kid, protecting him that day.. Teach a kid skills to handle it himself, protecting him for a lifetime.... That is the disconnect i am having with your solution...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

verbal bullying today isn't any worse than it was back in the day. the same kind of crap you hear kids killing themselves over is the same kind of crap I heard in middle school in the 80s. I heard people say "go kill yourself" and other silly crap like that, it is nothing new.
The difference is the reactions of the kids and how easily it is to spread online, and also the media coverage of it. I am sure kids killed themselves decades ago because they were made fun of, etc, but it wasn't a national news story. CHyren you go on and on about life in the 50s when you grew up, but respectfully I doubt you really know what goes on the middle schools today or even when I was that age to be making the statements you're making

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.