Seriously? That's almost funny if it wasn't so absurd.

Henne (a 4 year college starter) had an entire year to sit and learn behind Pennington and three years after that to make his mark. He never got better and was the same guy from game one as he was in game 36.

He also played with a pretty darn good line that had a LT that ranked in the top 3 for his entire stay. The other bookend was Vernon Carey who was playing 100x better than Clabo.

I know you are not insinuating that at any point in Henne's stay in Miami, his blockers were on pace to break the NFL record for sacks allowed as this years unit is...

Tannehill had a terrible start this week and some rough spots along the way over the last three games. QB's have bad days. ALL of them.

He's lucky he is not in the hospital after that hit by Mario on the play where Clabo whiffed!

You guys make it seem like we lost 3 straight because of Tannehill. That's just not the case. He contributed to the last one with the turnovers but the entire team was lousy over the last 3 weeks. He contributed to the loss but he also put us in a position to win at the end....AND we didn't.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

qbs today take longer to develop because of the style of play in college. they're not asked to read defenses...the coaches do that.

these hurry up schemes get them to the line, then they look over to the sideline. they coach sees the alignment and makes the call.

coming from that to having to read a D on your own in the pros isn't an easy transition.

now factor in a kid that only played the position 2 years in college.

do you think shanahan is a read option coach? carrol? no. they tailored their offense to meet their qbs skill set. we need to do the same. I'm not saying we need to run the read option but we do need to simplify things for him.

we'd turn over a 53 man roster every year if you guys got your way with wanted to dump everyone.

eesti: No no...I agree with you. The scenario is different. I'm just pointing out how the rhetoric is the same.

Meanwhile, I watched Andrew Luck constantly dodge pressure (reminded me of Marino) while picking apart Denver. Luck's O-Line is better than Tanny's, but he wasn't just standing in the pocket like Brady does. Denver got plenty of pressure on him. I guess I miss that part of Marino's game. He had the feet of a boxer.

The #1 intangible for a pocket passer is the ability to avoid pressure while still delivering the ball accurately. That's what Marino could do. That's what Andrew Luck does. That's what Peyton Manning does. Unfortunately, I don't see that ability in Tanny. I'm not saying he couldn't still be a successful QB. I'm just saying he's missing something that can't be taught.

Agreed. Tannehill has virtually no pocket presence but I disagree that it can't be taught or learned.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed. Tannehill has virtually no pocket presence
> but I disagree that it can't be taught or learned.

I don't know. The best QBs have it coming out of college. Some QBs are blessed with a great surrounding cast...like Big Ben was as a rookie...so they don't necessarily need the pocket presence. Regardless, Tanny is NOT going to develop it if he's constantly running for his life back there (ala David Carr).

It's crazy to think that Marino went entire seasons only getting sacked 6 times! Under 20 in 12 seasons!

Phil Simms and John Elway are in the top 10 all time sacked group. Marino doesn't even appear in the top 25.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unless the coaching posture changes to incorporate
> Tannehill's skill set, current and developing, I
> don't see him becoming our franchise QB.

Thats damn right.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's crazy to think that Marino went entire
> seasons only getting sacked 6 times! Under 20 in
> 12 seasons!
>
> Phil Simms and John Elway are in the top 10 all
> time sacked group. Marino doesn't even appear in
> the top 25.


Marino was like a bullfighter, he would calmly and collectively just shift a couple feet one way or another at the last possible second, as the bull or bull rushing lineman went flying right by, in disbelief they missed their target... Marino was the least mobile QB of his day, but also had his pocket awareness down to an art... Marino never took his eyes from downfield, but could avoid the attack with the art of a bullfighter... It was like a no look crossover in basketball.. with the least amount of movement and effort....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Yeah, that's interesting considering the fact that Marino was never known for his feet and we used to laugh on those few occasions he did have to take off and run.

But in fairness to Tanny, he had a helluva lot better offensive line, one that was designed to allow him to pass. It wasn't Griese's offensive line but it was almost as good.

Tannehill has two or three guys, Pouncey for sure, Richie most of the time and sometimes Martin. That's all.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > captkoi Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I can't agree with anyone here when they
> > throw
> > > the
> > > > "blame" at any one player. This was a total
> > > team
> > > > meltdown, from the first play to the last.
> > The
> > > > offensive playcalling is a puzzle to me.
> > > >
> > > > Sherman had the running game going (of
> > course,
> > > we
> > > > are talking about the Bills here, the 28th
> > > ranked
> > > > defense in the NFL against the run). The
> last
> > > > series where RT was hit while dropping back
> > and
> > > > fumbled it over to the Bills, I am
> scratching
> > > my
> > > > head. Again, the running game is
> > > working...Miami
> > > > needs to take time off the clock...the
> > passing
> > > > game wasn't all that great...disaster!
> > > >
> > > > Why not just keep running the ball? If I
> were
> > > the
> > > > playcaller, I would have kept running the
> > ball,
> > > > and if Miami ever got into a 3rd and short
> > > > situation, I would figure Buffalo would be
> > > looking
> > > > for a power run to get the first down and
> > keep
> > > > eating at the clock. I would then have let
> it
> > > > loose for Wallace down the field. But,
> > Sherman
> > > > decides to drop back on 2nd down, and
> Clabo,
> > > once
> > > > again, allows his man to smash RT.
> > > >
> > > > If you guys look at that play closely, you
> > will
> > > > see the inside was well protected; the
> > outside
> > > > came crashing down on RT.
> > > >
> > > > I haven't called for any coach's ouster
> this
> > > > season, but Sherman is on the hot seat with
> > me.
> > >
> > > Got to disagree Cap.
> > >
> > > I'm not a big Sherman fan. If he was gone
> > > tomorrow I'd be fine with it. But this
> loss
> > > isn't on him.
> > >
> > > Its on Tannehill and Clabo.
> > >
> > > Tannehill made two poor passes in the first
> > half
> > > that gave them 7 points and cost us at least
> 3,
> > if
> > > not 7, points.
> > >
> > > Qb's are going to make mistakes. Especially
> > young
> > > ones. The fact that he bounced back from
> that
> > > with 3 TD passes says a lot about the kid.
> > >
> > > Despite that, we were up 21-17 in the 3rd and
> > > 21-20 in the 4th because our offense got
> going.
> > >
> > > If Clabo doesn't get blown up in the exact
> same
> > > way he and Martin did versus Terrell Suggs
> and
> > the
> > > Ravens two weeks ago we win.
> >
> > *****************************************
> >
> > Truth, you can disagree if you wish, and I can
> > understand where you are coming from, but I
> said
> > it earlier, this was a TEAM loss, from the
> coaches
> > on down. RT made some early mistakes, but he
> > overcame them with a good running game to help
> > him, along with him getting outside the pocket.
> > But, the offense as a whole played poorly, the
> > defense played well, but broke down at critical
> > junctures. Sherman, et al, made some head
> > scratching calls. And Clabo still hasn't
> improved,
> > even with all the work that was (supposedly)
> put
> > in during the bye week. He needs to be
> replaced,
> > immediately!
> >
> > As far as the loss not being on Sherman, I must
> > disagree. He is the playcaller! He called that
> > pass play on that disasterous 2nd down when he
> > should have ran the ball. Our running game was
> > going pretty well; need to keep driving it down
> > the Bills' throats. You and I both know that
> > Miami's WEAKEST offense link is Clabo, and
> that's
> > where Williams was lined up. Sherman can see
> that,
> > so run the ball, and if he insists on passing
> it,
> > then make it a quick slant or a screen to
> > Williams' side. Let him come crashing in and
> loft
> > it over his head. I highly doubt the Bills were
> > expecting a pass on that play.
>
> We ran on first down for 2 yards.
>
> 2nd and 8, needing a first down to keep the ball
> and not give them a chance to win on a fg...I'm
> fine with a conservative pass. We HAVE to get
> that first down. To go into a shell and run 2x
> doesn't help.
>
> Besides...if your RT can't force a DE to go wide
> or just stone him on a 3 or 5 step drop then play
> calling isn't really your issue. Your issue is
> your RT.
>
>
> I guess you can make the argument that its a
> better shot to run twice and punt and ask your
> defense to win by keeping them out of FG range,
> but I believe for this team, or any team, to
> develop they have to finish teams off, not just
> hope and hang on for dear life.

**************************************************

I read today where Sherman explained that play by saying he and Philbin wanted to remain aggressive. I agree with that, as I was aggressive when coaching youth football, but....when you have two tackles that are getting your QB killed, that critical juncture of the game is not the time to be aggressive (with that particular call).

As I mentioned (above), if the coaches insisted on being aggressive, then come up with a play that is quick and double team Williams. That would be Miami's best shot.

I understand Sherman's thinking, and he said it during his media interview. A 21-20 lead is not something a team can sit on; way too often the other team comes up with a play that finally beats you. Miami was famous for that under Wanny and Sparano. Those two felt they had world class defenses and could hold off anyone; the majority of the time they were wrong!

Truth, I also realize Miami only gained 2 yards on their first carry of that series. So? Make a good gain on the second run and you have an easier pass play, or can still run it.

I agree, Truth, that if a tackle can't move his guy outside, then there is a problem with the player, and we all have known that for quite some time. But, my problem is, since everyone knows that, and I am including Sherman, then come up with a play or formation that could help neutralize the pass rush. Sherman didn't do that.

Miami just doesn't have the personnel up front to allow any aggressive play that late in the game.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 'Give the kid some time'?...ugh we heard that
> > all through the Henne years...
>
> No kidding! How about "All he needs is a better
> O-Line". It's Henne all over again!

********************************************

Tanneyhill is doing just fine; no comparison to Henne.

Give Tanney a decent OLine and watch the difference. No QB can do well with that kind of heat constantly coming at him.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's crazy to think that Marino went entire
> seasons only getting sacked 6 times! Under 20 in
> 12 seasons!
>
> Phil Simms and John Elway are in the top 10 all
> time sacked group. Marino doesn't even appear in
> the top 25.

**********************************************

Do the names Clayton, Duper, and Moore ring a bell? Marino's OLine wasn't great, but they were good enough to protect him, along with his lightening release.

RT doesn't have any receivers of that caliber, and about the only OLineman he has that could be comparable is Pouncey.

Marino's line wasn't great?

They were sure great in pass protection! They just couldn't run block to save their lives.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marino's line wasn't great?
>
> They were sure great in pass protection! They just
> couldn't run block to save their lives.

****************************************

They weren't GREAT. As I said, they held their blocks long enough to allow Marino to get the ball out of his hands.

Remember, Marino had the quickest release in the NFL which allowed the OL to look good.