I was not unhappy when Tannehill was selected by the Dolphins. I'm going on record to state that. I watched some video of his play at Texas A&M and thought he could very well be a franchise QB in the NFL.

Last year he was a rookie with very few ball games as a QB under his belt but he had his old HC working with him as the OC here. That had promise written all over it.

During preseason play, I commented that I didn't see very good mechanics from Tannehill and questioned what was wrong with him. ChryenB commented as I recall about management wanting to make him a pocket passer and that was the problem with his form.

Then suddenly, I saw a change in Tannehills throwing motion and his footwork looked better. Hope....

With what has taken place during the past 6 games, I am doubting my belief that Tannehill can be an NFL starting QB. I'm sensing that he's not much better than Chad Henne. He has average command of the field and can't take charge when things look their darkest.

I'm sorry to say, he not going to make it here.

you say he was inexperienced in college and are declaring him a bust after 1 season and 6 games.

that's brilliant.

Not sure I agree, he seems to be able to bring the team back occassionally, but while he has a strong arm ( which we don't actually SEE very often) he isn't very accurate, has a slow release, and doesn't seem to have much pocket presence. What really drives me crazy is his penchant for locking onto a receiver, but mostly HE HOLDS ON TO THE BALL TOO LONG!

Rick

I am about to agree.

He has a bigger up side then Henne: better mobility better in the red zone, but the same downside: Spotty Accuracy that gets worse with distance, no real 'Presence' (pocket OR field), takes to many sacks.

He just doesn't seem to be getting much better at the big intangibles, reading the defense and sensing what to do under pressure.

This is no Drew Brees/Philip Rivers deal OR Tom Brady Drew Bledsoe situation. The job is his and has been since day one.

Has he shown improvement? Yes. Has he shown the improvement a 'franchise' caliber QB almost half way through his second starting season should? No.

I can't agree with anyone here when they throw the "blame" at any one player. This was a total team meltdown, from the first play to the last. The offensive playcalling is a puzzle to me.

Sherman had the running game going (of course, we are talking about the Bills here, the 28th ranked defense in the NFL against the run). The last series where RT was hit while dropping back and fumbled it over to the Bills, I am scratching my head. Again, the running game is working...Miami needs to take time off the clock...the passing game wasn't all that great...disaster!

Why not just keep running the ball? If I were the playcaller, I would have kept running the ball, and if Miami ever got into a 3rd and short situation, I would figure Buffalo would be looking for a power run to get the first down and keep eating at the clock. I would then have let it loose for Wallace down the field. But, Sherman decides to drop back on 2nd down, and Clabo, once again, allows his man to smash RT.

If you guys look at that play closely, you will see the inside was well protected; the outside came crashing down on RT.

I haven't called for any coach's ouster this season, but Sherman is on the hot seat with me.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't agree with anyone here when they throw the
> "blame" at any one player. This was a total team
> meltdown, from the first play to the last. The
> offensive playcalling is a puzzle to me.
>
> Sherman had the running game going (of course, we
> are talking about the Bills here, the 28th ranked
> defense in the NFL against the run). The last
> series where RT was hit while dropping back and
> fumbled it over to the Bills, I am scratching my
> head. Again, the running game is working...Miami
> needs to take time off the clock...the passing
> game wasn't all that great...disaster!
>
> Why not just keep running the ball? If I were the
> playcaller, I would have kept running the ball,
> and if Miami ever got into a 3rd and short
> situation, I would figure Buffalo would be looking
> for a power run to get the first down and keep
> eating at the clock. I would then have let it
> loose for Wallace down the field. But, Sherman
> decides to drop back on 2nd down, and Clabo, once
> again, allows his man to smash RT.
>
> If you guys look at that play closely, you will
> see the inside was well protected; the outside
> came crashing down on RT.
>
> I haven't called for any coach's ouster this
> season, but Sherman is on the hot seat with me.

Got to disagree Cap.

I'm not a big Sherman fan. If he was gone tomorrow I'd be fine with it. But this loss isn't on him.

Its on Tannehill and Clabo.

Tannehill made two poor passes in the first half that gave them 7 points and cost us at least 3, if not 7, points.

Qb's are going to make mistakes. Especially young ones. The fact that he bounced back from that with 3 TD passes says a lot about the kid.

Despite that, we were up 21-17 in the 3rd and 21-20 in the 4th because our offense got going.

If Clabo doesn't get blown up in the exact same way he and Martin did versus Terrell Suggs and the Ravens two weeks ago we win.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can't agree with anyone here when they throw
> the
> > "blame" at any one player. This was a total
> team
> > meltdown, from the first play to the last. The
> > offensive playcalling is a puzzle to me.
> >
> > Sherman had the running game going (of course,
> we
> > are talking about the Bills here, the 28th
> ranked
> > defense in the NFL against the run). The last
> > series where RT was hit while dropping back and
> > fumbled it over to the Bills, I am scratching
> my
> > head. Again, the running game is
> working...Miami
> > needs to take time off the clock...the passing
> > game wasn't all that great...disaster!
> >
> > Why not just keep running the ball? If I were
> the
> > playcaller, I would have kept running the ball,
> > and if Miami ever got into a 3rd and short
> > situation, I would figure Buffalo would be
> looking
> > for a power run to get the first down and keep
> > eating at the clock. I would then have let it
> > loose for Wallace down the field. But, Sherman
> > decides to drop back on 2nd down, and Clabo,
> once
> > again, allows his man to smash RT.
> >
> > If you guys look at that play closely, you will
> > see the inside was well protected; the outside
> > came crashing down on RT.
> >
> > I haven't called for any coach's ouster this
> > season, but Sherman is on the hot seat with me.
>
> Got to disagree Cap.
>
> I'm not a big Sherman fan. If he was gone
> tomorrow I'd be fine with it. But this loss
> isn't on him.
>
> Its on Tannehill and Clabo.
>
> Tannehill made two poor passes in the first half
> that gave them 7 points and cost us at least 3, if
> not 7, points.
>
> Qb's are going to make mistakes. Especially young
> ones. The fact that he bounced back from that
> with 3 TD passes says a lot about the kid.
>
> Despite that, we were up 21-17 in the 3rd and
> 21-20 in the 4th because our offense got going.
>
> If Clabo doesn't get blown up in the exact same
> way he and Martin did versus Terrell Suggs and the
> Ravens two weeks ago we win.

*****************************************

Truth, you can disagree if you wish, and I can understand where you are coming from, but I said it earlier, this was a TEAM loss, from the coaches on down. RT made some early mistakes, but he overcame them with a good running game to help him, along with him getting outside the pocket. But, the offense as a whole played poorly, the defense played well, but broke down at critical junctures. Sherman, et al, made some head scratching calls. And Clabo still hasn't improved, even with all the work that was (supposedly) put in during the bye week. He needs to be replaced, immediately!

As far as the loss not being on Sherman, I must disagree. He is the playcaller! He called that pass play on that disasterous 2nd down when he should have ran the ball. Our running game was going pretty well; need to keep driving it down the Bills' throats. You and I both know that Miami's WEAKEST offense link is Clabo, and that's where Williams was lined up. Sherman can see that, so run the ball, and if he insists on passing it, then make it a quick slant or a screen to Williams' side. Let him come crashing in and loft it over his head. I highly doubt the Bills were expecting a pass on that play.

SORRY. Yes he made a few bad decisions today , but I believe those decisions were helped along because they have no Pass blocking . Guy can't do it himself. Claybo needs to be benched. This was the most frustrating game in a long time. We should have had it locked up. Buffalo did not play well, we gave it to them.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Have to agree with captkoi; Sherman is our problem on offense. The play calling does not match the play situations, and having Clabo lined up one on one against their best defender is inexcusable. Not once, but several times. Look at all the pre-game write ups, and you'll see Super Mario listed in all of them as the one we need to look out for. Very poor offensive strategy not to give our worst offensive line man some help against their best defender.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2013 02:04PM by TX-FIN.

The coaching staff / organization absolutely SUCKS!

Especially Phlimflam and the rest of the Massholes...

Get them the fock outta here! It's South Florida --- not south boston! Puke.

For cries sakes -- they didn't even know what football was 15-years ago in Massachusetts.

Enough of Phlimflam and his BS shtick -- and get rid of the Irish connection altogether with "panties in a bunch" Jeffie as well…

And that means its time for Ross to exit the stage and find an owner with a background other than fleecing millions via real estate frauds.

How about a legit South Florida owner?

No more NY yankee on our collective SFL dick
profiteering on the legacy of Don Shula.
Those days are:

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVER!

Stop the BS charade or just dissolve the franchise…

BNF. And outta here… Y'all be good.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SORRY. Yes he made a few bad decisions today , but
> I believe those decisions were helped along
> because they have no Pass blocking . Guy can't do
> it himself. Claybo needs to be benched. This was
> the most frustrating game in a long time. We
> should have had it locked up. Buffalo did not play
> well, we gave it to them.

***************************************************

Exactly! We have no pass blocking, so that's where Philbin and Sherman need to change things instead of keeping it at status quo. I will admit, however, that Miami did do a few things different in today's game; roll outs, running game (stuck with it). However, not enough to make a difference.

Agreed, Clabo needs to be replaced. I just don't understand the coaches being so stubborn.

I don't see the pocket presence and pass touch. Reminding me of a more mobile David Carr. See better presence and awareness from Geno Smith and even Case Keenum

name me one successful pro QB with 1 year of college experience? Pro QB's need to have more than just athleticism, ask Tim Tebow!


Boy FLA teams are stinking it up

Maybe we need Henne for between the 20's and Tannehill for the redzone! To many overthrown or underthrown big play opportunities. You can't blame the coaches here

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > captkoi Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I can't agree with anyone here when they
> throw
> > the
> > > "blame" at any one player. This was a total
> > team
> > > meltdown, from the first play to the last.
> The
> > > offensive playcalling is a puzzle to me.
> > >
> > > Sherman had the running game going (of
> course,
> > we
> > > are talking about the Bills here, the 28th
> > ranked
> > > defense in the NFL against the run). The last
> > > series where RT was hit while dropping back
> and
> > > fumbled it over to the Bills, I am scratching
> > my
> > > head. Again, the running game is
> > working...Miami
> > > needs to take time off the clock...the
> passing
> > > game wasn't all that great...disaster!
> > >
> > > Why not just keep running the ball? If I were
> > the
> > > playcaller, I would have kept running the
> ball,
> > > and if Miami ever got into a 3rd and short
> > > situation, I would figure Buffalo would be
> > looking
> > > for a power run to get the first down and
> keep
> > > eating at the clock. I would then have let it
> > > loose for Wallace down the field. But,
> Sherman
> > > decides to drop back on 2nd down, and Clabo,
> > once
> > > again, allows his man to smash RT.
> > >
> > > If you guys look at that play closely, you
> will
> > > see the inside was well protected; the
> outside
> > > came crashing down on RT.
> > >
> > > I haven't called for any coach's ouster this
> > > season, but Sherman is on the hot seat with
> me.
> >
> > Got to disagree Cap.
> >
> > I'm not a big Sherman fan. If he was gone
> > tomorrow I'd be fine with it. But this loss
> > isn't on him.
> >
> > Its on Tannehill and Clabo.
> >
> > Tannehill made two poor passes in the first
> half
> > that gave them 7 points and cost us at least 3,
> if
> > not 7, points.
> >
> > Qb's are going to make mistakes. Especially
> young
> > ones. The fact that he bounced back from that
> > with 3 TD passes says a lot about the kid.
> >
> > Despite that, we were up 21-17 in the 3rd and
> > 21-20 in the 4th because our offense got going.
> >
> > If Clabo doesn't get blown up in the exact same
> > way he and Martin did versus Terrell Suggs and
> the
> > Ravens two weeks ago we win.
>
> *****************************************
>
> Truth, you can disagree if you wish, and I can
> understand where you are coming from, but I said
> it earlier, this was a TEAM loss, from the coaches
> on down. RT made some early mistakes, but he
> overcame them with a good running game to help
> him, along with him getting outside the pocket.
> But, the offense as a whole played poorly, the
> defense played well, but broke down at critical
> junctures. Sherman, et al, made some head
> scratching calls. And Clabo still hasn't improved,
> even with all the work that was (supposedly) put
> in during the bye week. He needs to be replaced,
> immediately!
>
> As far as the loss not being on Sherman, I must
> disagree. He is the playcaller! He called that
> pass play on that disasterous 2nd down when he
> should have ran the ball. Our running game was
> going pretty well; need to keep driving it down
> the Bills' throats. You and I both know that
> Miami's WEAKEST offense link is Clabo, and that's
> where Williams was lined up. Sherman can see that,
> so run the ball, and if he insists on passing it,
> then make it a quick slant or a screen to
> Williams' side. Let him come crashing in and loft
> it over his head. I highly doubt the Bills were
> expecting a pass on that play.

We ran on first down for 2 yards.

2nd and 8, needing a first down to keep the ball and not give them a chance to win on a fg...I'm fine with a conservative pass. We HAVE to get that first down. To go into a shell and run 2x doesn't help.

Besides...if your RT can't force a DE to go wide or just stone him on a 3 or 5 step drop then play calling isn't really your issue. Your issue is your RT.


I guess you can make the argument that its a better shot to run twice and punt and ask your defense to win by keeping them out of FG range, but I believe for this team, or any team, to develop they have to finish teams off, not just hope and hang on for dear life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2013 02:52PM by THE Truth.

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was not unhappy when Tannehill was selected by
> the Dolphins. I'm going on record to state that.
> I watched some video of his play at Texas A&M and
> thought he could very well be a franchise QB in
> the NFL.

STOP RIGHT THERE! THAT'S YOUR ANSWER! I'm gonna leave the rest of your post below.

THEY ARE NOT FRIGGIN' USING HIM LIKE HE WAS USED AT TAM. They are trying to make him into another Tom Brady!

He's not a friggin' pocket passer.

He does not know how to IN THE POCKET:

1. Move around to see
2. Move around with in it to avoid a sack
3. Hold on to the ball while in the pocket
4. Throw the ball away.

HOW MUCH EVIDENCE DO YOU NEED BEFORE WE REALIZE THAT THIS GUY IS NOT MEANT FOR THE POCKET.


>
> Last year he was a rookie with very few ball games
> as a QB under his belt but he had his old HC
> working with him as the OC here. That had promise
> written all over it.
>
> During preseason play, I commented that I didn't
> see very good mechanics from Tannehill and
> questioned what was wrong with him. ChryenB
> commented as I recall about management wanting to
> make him a pocket passer and that was the problem
> with his form.
>
> Then suddenly, I saw a change in Tannehills
> throwing motion and his footwork looked better.
> Hope....
>
> With what has taken place during the past 6 games,
> I am doubting my belief that Tannehill can be an
> NFL starting QB. I'm sensing that he's not much
> better than Chad Henne. He has average command of
> the field and can't take charge when things look
> their darkest.
>
> I'm sorry to say, he not going to make it here.

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also realize that Tannehill is an investment.
> The team isn't going to trade him, cut him, not on
> your life. So, if we must deal with his
> performance issues, we might try better
> instructors, I do think he is coachable. Perhaps
> with better coaching, better utilization of his
> athletic ability, he can make it here.
> Something's got to give. You know what direction
> I'm heading...Philbin, Sherman and associates.


Tannehill positives: He has a decent arm, and is mobile.

Tannehill negatives: Poor pocket presence; can't move around to avoid pressure and sacks in the pocket. Needs to work on accuracy to hit a receiver in stride on the deep balls. Turns the ball over WAY too much, whether it's from the ball being knocked out during a sack or run, or a bad decision ending in an interception because he didn't see a defender.

Now, if he's an investment and it's too early to cut him, then the best thing to do would be to help the kid. I'd put him behind a huge "wall of beef" o-line, and go for a power running game that WILL make those 3rd and shorts. Tannehill needs more time (upright) in the pocket to scan the field and make good decisions, and a big, strong, nasty o-line full of maulers would protect him, and open lanes for the RBs. With better protection and a good running game the passing game should improve when Tannehill is given more time, and the team can have a healthy balance of running and passing.

But, this is completely against Philbin and Sherman's offensive philosophy. They want athletic finesse o-linemen not maulers, and they want short, quick passes to replace the running game. Their system is based on quick reads and passes, but Tannehill needs a little more time and the o-line is giving him hardly any time at all.

Personally, I'd like to see a new coaching staff; next week if possible! Anyone would be an improvement over Philbin and Sherman! And, if the new staff has their eye on a better QB, that's fine with me too. The gist of my post was to find a way to compensate for Tannehill's shortcomings, but it might be easier to replace him along with the coaching staff. I see other young QBs that have no problem moving in the pocket to avoid pressure, so maybe Tannehill just doesn't have what it takes to be a "franchise" QB.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2013 04:36AM by gofins60.

gofins60 you left off a huge negative. He locks on the receiver he wants to throw to presnap. I always tape the games and go back and watch the plays, he has someone wide open, but he has already made decision on where to throw the ball.

Watch Luck from last night his head is on a swivel looking back and forth. Tannehill does not, he is locked dead on the guy at snap of ball.

I would be thrilled if play calling was taken away from Sherman today!!!

gofins60 I agree wholeheartedly with most of your analysis...EXCEPT the 'Build-a-wall-of-beef-and-any-QB-will-work' philosophy. JJ/WANNY tried it, Parcells tried it BIG time, wasting several 1st round pics and the only #1 over all we had in 40 years on Olinemen. Over that 10+ years our record has been sub .500, all that 'beef' is now gone and our Oline never was very good.

If Tannehill isn't the answer then continue looking...a true 'franchise' caliber QB will make a bad line look decent and a good line look great.

But in the end, like you, I think the coaching staff is in over their head. They don't have what the need to run their 'system' and seemingly aren't willing or able(more likely IMO) to adjust it...

You can blame everybody but you can't blame one person. Dropped balls, blown blocking assignments, missed FG's and a defense that got abused in the running game when it mattered most....as well as a pass defense that got beat by a journeyman scrub QB.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

there was one play towards the end where jimmy wilson had a shot to put the game away 3rd and long, he missed the tackle.

that kind of thing has been going on for years now.

While Sherman has made mistakes, and Tannehill had accuracy issues last week.. The problem is blocking... Take any QB or OC, and have the run blocking suck and pass protection suck, and 9 times out of ten, you are not a consistent successful offense...
Tannehill needs to plant his feet make his reads, and deliver the ball, when the line doesnt allow him to do that and the running game is inconsistent, there isnt much a QB or OC can do.. I guess Sherman failing to adapt his play calling to use plays that offset the pass rush is on him...
And Tannehill was rusty coming off the bye week and seemed to have regress to bad habits in the first half, but he was much more accurate and solid in the second and third... I expect him to progress next game rather then see another regression... I am not ready to give up on him, at this point but concerned that he fell back into old bad habits.... I hope that is not who he is....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can blame everybody but you can't blame one
> person. Dropped balls, blown blocking assignments,
> missed FG's and a defense that got abused in the
> running game when it mattered most....as well as a
> pass defense that got beat by a journeyman scrub
> QB.


True. A lot of people on the offense have made mistakes, and let's not forget all of the faults of the defense, too.

Give the kid some time. I think it's more coaching to a system than it is the QB.

Sherman explained the pass with 3 minutes left that lost the game. Said the bills were playing "bear" defense to stop the run and we trust our guys on the outside. It was a 5 step drop.

Look at that. The bills have 8 in the box so he calls a 5 step drop to try to get the ball to the outside guys. you don't have time for a 5 step drop. how about a quick slant? Is that tannehills fault?

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give the kid some time. I think it's more
> coaching to a system than it is the QB.
>
> Sherman explained the pass with 3 minutes left
> that lost the game. Said the bills were playing
> "bear" defense to stop the run and we trust our
> guys on the outside. It was a 5 step drop.
>
> Look at that. The bills have 8 in the box so he
> calls a 5 step drop to try to get the ball to the
> outside guys. you don't have time for a 5 step
> drop. how about a quick slant? Is that tannehills
> fault?


I agree wholeheartedly about the 'coaching to a system' comment. To me this IS the BIGGEST issue. But 'Give the kid some time'?...ugh we heard that all through the Henne years...

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Give the kid some time'?...ugh we heard that
> all through the Henne years...

No kidding! How about "All he needs is a better O-Line". It's Henne all over again!

That's a chilling reminder. I thought Henne looked a lot better at Michigan than Tanne at T A&M. A harsh reality is that the intangibles that Tanne lacks (especially a qbs intuition) may never develop.