Not so sure about either one the draft is a crap shoot. I would take Foles or Harnish later then keep all of my draft picks for better use to fill the holes on this roster. Griffin will not play in his 1st year so you give up the farm to have a player sit behind Moore no thanks. Luck will have a big learning curve to say that he will be good is one thing. To say he will win in his rookie season is another.

NO player will get us to Win the SB next season. This is for our Future. Plenty of good players to be found in the later rounds for the next two seasons. You said it, any 1st round draft pick is a crap shoot. But some are better then others. Blow 2 out and grab a more sure thing at the most important position.

Although people thought that we absolutly sucked in the beginning i think the run we made showed the dolphin nation as well as the people on sports center that jumped on the wagon for like 3 weeks that we have a very solid team. That being said i honestly dont think that we need all of our draft picks and if we hit on only 2 guys i think we will take a huge leap forward EXPECIALLY if that guy is a qb (either a guy we already have or in this years draft)

I think increased play at QB and FS and we are in the playoffs cause the jets are not the bully anymore, no reason we should not be 10-6 and have a 5 spot in the playoffs next year (with todays inflatted passing stats yes i now believe that we could do it even with a rookie).

Yes, you give up everything you can if you believe the guy is a franchise QB.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Right on. The careful, picking Lineman type thinking/mentality has gotten us were we are now. We should have been picking QB's in the first rounds for the last 10 yrs until we hit. Time to bite the bullet and make up for it. Ross needs to put his money where his mouth is. He wants to be a championship calibur Team , go for it and show the NFL and available free agents your serious. The Dolphins need the #1 or 2 pick in the NFL draft.

How often in the past has the strategy of trading multiple picks/players to get a QB at the very top of the draft paid off for a team?

A related question...how often can franchise QBs be found from the mid 1st and onward?

Treasure,

Actually, I am not necessarily saying the Dolphins shouldn't trade up, I am genuinely curious what the historical record says about that strategy. And that should be balanced against the chances of finding our QB later than the mid-first round.

Somewhere, I have a spread sheet of the draft position of all the probowl QBs taken since 1990. I will look for it when I get home.

It all depends on what you have to trade to move up...no player ever, has been worth a teams entire draft.

It always takes more than a single player to be great.

I agree though that you have to actually take players in the draft to find good one's.

In my experience with football...mortgaging the future never works.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It all depends on what you have to trade to move
> up...no player ever, has been worth a teams entire
> draft.

What if Ricky Williams had not first gone south in his mind after being drafted by Ditka in New Orleans?

Maybe he would not have been worth a team's whole draft but would he have come close?

sconigli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How often in the past has the strategy of trading
> multiple picks/players to get a QB at the very top
> of the draft paid off for a team?
>
> A related question...how often can franchise QBs
> be found from the mid 1st and onward?


Marino,Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Montana, and Brady were all drafted after the mid first.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2012 07:38AM by sleekdogg.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It all depends on what you have to trade to
> move
> > up...no player ever, has been worth a teams
> entire
> > draft.
>
> What if Ricky Williams had not first gone south in
> his mind after being drafted by Ditka in New
> Orleans?
>
> Maybe he would not have been worth a team's whole
> draft but would he have come close?


RE: We can't look at what if's...he did go south, and he was not worth the entire draft. Even if he had been the next incarnation of Barry Sanders and Earl Campbell put together he would not have been worth an entire draft...his production even on a level such as that would have been would not have been enough.

I disagree. I have watched pro running backs from Jim Brown when I was a kid watching all the Cleveland Brown games to present day.

It amazed me Ricky had all he had left in the tank when he played for us and by all rights should have been washed up.

Had he taken the game seriously and devoted his efforts to the game when he was first signed by New Orleans, know where I would have ranked him among all running backs of all time.

2nd to OJ Simpson. Like I've said before. I saw OJ when I was going to Cal and he played for USC and I have never before seen a man make cuts and moves I have only seen dogs make. OJ did that. (Some prosecutors might argue he also made those same moves off the field but that's another discussion).

Ricky Williams comes as close to that than I have seen.

In short, I think Ditka was right on his assessment of talent but wrong ultimately because the man was not in his right mind.

ken seriously? if he produced at the level of barry sanders and earl campbell put together he would have been the best RB in the history of football and definitely worth an entire draft. i would give up this entire draft to get a young Marino, Brees, or Rodgers in a second.

I don't think the Colts will trade away their 1st pick and allow Luck to escape their grasp, and I don't blame them. Peyton Manning can't be that easily replaced at will.

Would I be willing to sacrifice an entire draft for Luck? Absolutely. The problem is who in their right mind would allow Luck to get away? I doubt anyone would. Unless Stephen Ross can walk on water and make a miracle happen, we need to accept that Luck won't be a Dolphin no matter what we offer.

Panteraize Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ken Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It all depends on what you have to trade to
> move
> > up...no player ever, has been worth a teams
> entire
> > draft.
> >
>
> Really?...... REALLY?!?
>
>
> Miami Dolphins 1998 Draft class
>
> 29 John Avery RB Mississippi
> 44 Patrick Surtain DB S. Mississippi
> 49 Kenny Mixon DE LSU
> 79 Brad Jackson LB Cincinnati
> 82 Larry Shannon WR E. Carolina
> 102 Lorenzo Bromell DT Clemson
> 143 Scott Shaw OL Michigan State
> 171 Nathan Strikwerda OL Northwestern
> 172 John Dutton QB Nevada
> 210 Jim Bundren OG Clemson
>
>
> A first ballot Hall of Fame QB named Peyton
> Manning was drafted that year.
>
> Are you seriously suggesting that those 10 guys
> were more valuable and have continued to prove to
> be more valuable than Peyton Manning? Are you
> suggesting if we could go back and do that draft
> again and we had an opportunity to trade all of
> those draft picks for the #1 overall pick to
> select Peyton Manning, that we shouldn't do that
> because as you say "no player ever, has been worth
> a teams entire draft"?
>
> Don't get me wrong, missing out on
> ultra-super-mega-star John Avery would have hurt.
> But in all seriousness, as good as a guy like
> Surtain was, I don't think a single person on this
> board who has an IQ above 30 would not trade every
> one of those guys for Peyton Manning if we could
> do it all over again and somehow had the chance to
> trade up to take him.
>
> Now that doesn't mean Andrew Luck is the next
> Peyton Manning, but a blanket statement asserting
> that no one player is worth trading one's entire
> collection of draft picks for is not true. An
> elite franchise QB is worth doing that for.
> Accordingly, if a team is convinced that the top
> QB of that year is that guy, then you make that
> move and put your team in a position to compete
> and hopefully go deep in the playoffs for the next
> 15 years.




Rarely do you see a point made so clearly......NAIL/HEAD .

Marino was still on our roster at the time and nobody, at the time, would have considered trading the entire draft on a position that was still filled with a very capable player. JJ would have been run out of town and certainly wouldn't be working for Fox sports today any more than Ditka is. Careers and legends are made or broken on decisions like that. JJ was the recipient of one of those decisions in the Herschel Walker trade but I can't think of a single trade like that working out for the positive.
With the luxury of hindsight we can play "what if" in numerous situations like that, but somebody with huge gonads needs to step to the plate, at the time" and put his entire career, reputation and, future on the line. That's why it doesn't happen often and we joke about the few instances where it did.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NO player will get us to Win the SB next season.

Gimmy brady and we will talk at the end of next year...>At least we will go far in the playoffs with him.

Ive always said this dolphins team is a superstar QB away from going deep in the playoffs.

Well, let's put it this way, SamSam. What if you had Brady but Sparano and Henning calling the plays (assuming that Brady could not or would not overrule them)? Think we'd go to the SuperBowl then? I think not.

I think our 0-7 start can totally be blamed on poor play-calling and I think it takes all elements of a team, quarterbacking, receiving, running, defense and ABOVE ALL CORRECT DECISION-MAKING IN PLAYCALLING, to make a SuperBowl team. I don't think you can just put Brady or Manning or Luck on any team and EXPECT it to get to and win the SuperBowl. I'm not saying that's your position but it does seem to come close.

Chren how did we go from sucking so bad to been respectable at the end of the year........

I think it was more lack of execution of the plays and the strike than coaching.

he says THINK about it, he does not say you do it.

I remember Marshall complaining about Henne refusing to deviate from any play call after NE kicked our butts the last game of 2010. 0-3 at the end for 2 years in a row was all I could take.

dolphin1423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ken seriously? if he produced at the level of
> barry sanders and earl campbell put together he
> would have been the best RB in the history of
> football and definitely worth an entire draft. i
> would give up this entire draft to get a young
> Marino, Brees, or Rodgers in a second.


IMO Barry Sanders was the best , maybe next to Jim Brown. Yet the Lions remained one of the worst Teams ever. RB's are a compliment , they do not win Championships. Great QB's do.

CryinB, you almost have a point here. I agree 100% with you that first downs will eat the clock a heck of a lot more then trying to run on 3rd and 8 will.

however, henne was plain bad.... Moore had the same exact plays called that henne did, but Moore made the plays.

treasure, the lions were a playoff team with barry sanders but they had zero talent around him. can you remember any other player on the lions from those years? i can't. and they still made the playoffs a handful of times. they were even 12-4 one year. RBs are a compliment but a guy like Barry Sanders transforms your team. the problem was they had no one to compliment him.