ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then how do you read that sentence, DolfanMike?

Division standings mean nothing, because of the apples to orange issues. For instance, there is no way to compare the NFC north to the AFC east. So, all head-head,division,conf., etc. records are thrown out. "Reverse standings" are based only on percentages and the only tiebreaker is strength of schedule (easiest picks first).

This has been the procedure for at least the last 30 years.

oh dear lord, mike, don't engage with chyrenb, it's like arguing with the mentally challenged homeless guy on the corner who thinks the government is spying on him thru the fillings in his teeth. logic an facts are irrelevant bc he can never be wrong

give it up chyren before you embarrass yourself further, if possible

You can insult all you want, berk. I just said you had to go back to "draft" elementary school.

But the reality of it is that you are wrong and when the NFL releases its new standings by League tonight, you will see that we are higher on the list of 32 than the Bills.

I never realized that you were so sensitive and that when proven wrong you freak out so greatly and get so nasty.

Most people on this board don't want to get involved.

But how many fools and delusionals and now "mentally challenged" have you thrown out.

Just because you keep continually getting confused about the SIMPLE fact that the team with the better record drafts last.

Somewhere in your mind you can't apply that reverse order rule.

chyren I try to keep a level head when posting but it gets very frustrating when dealing with you because you refuse to ever admit you are wrong. I explained a number of times that opp SOS is the tiebreaker and even quoted one of your old posts back to you saying this, and yet you still refuse to admit an obvious mistake.

anyway I apologize for all of the insults on this thread, but this was getting me aggravated. if the bills end up picking ahead of us, it will be because they have a weaker opp SOS (unless our opp SOS are tied, in which case another tiebreaker----BUT NOT HEAD TO HEAD--will be the reason).

anyway, I am checking out of this debate. I have proven my rather obvious point and if you don't want to admit you are wrong, that's your business.

EDIT---obviously, the bills will pick ahead of us since they finished with a worse record so there is no "tie" to break. but had there been a tie, Opp SOS would have been the first tiebreaker



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2012 12:26PM by berkeley223.

Bob, you are wrong...as usual.

Berk and DolphinMike are correct.

Need proof?

Why would the NFL use its divisional tiebreakers to rank the teams 32-1, then use strength of schedule as the first tiebreaker for draft order... only to then go to divisional tiebreaker AGAIN to resolve any ties not broken by divisional tiebreaker or SOS the first time around?

The league is ranked by won/loss record 32-1. There will be ties.

There are different tiebreaker rules for determining division winner. There are certain tiebreakers for determining the conference wildcards after that.

And there are a third set of rules for determining the draft order.

My favorite part of this is the fact that not only is your entire position wrong, its moot as well.

There are at least 4 teams that will have finished 6-10 this year. Head-to-head couldn't apply in that situation...just as it doesn't apply to wildcards across divisions...because they all didn't play the same amount of times.

So not only are you wrong in your interpretation of the rule, you are ALSO wrong in application of your mistaken interpretation.


The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Happy New Year everyone...

All that means is that where there is a tie between teams of different divisions or conferences strength of schedule has been applied to come up with the ranking.

Now, I'm really doubting that you are even a lawyer berk.

Either that or you think the other posters on this board are stupid.


Come on. I asked you to give me something in the article that said that SOS trumps head to head. This doesn't say that!

if this thread brought phinsfan2 out of retirement then it was totally worth it. welcome back buddy!

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All that means is that where there is a tie
> between teams of different divisions or
> conferences strength of schedule has been applied
> to come up with the ranking.
>
> Now, I'm really doubting that you are even a
> lawyer berk.
>
> Either that or you think the other posters on this
> board are stupid.
>
>
> Come on. I asked you to give me something in the
> article that said that SOS trumps head to head.
> This doesn't say that!

no, and it doesn't say SOS trumps wearing green sneakers either. because both are totally irrelevant. it does, however, say SOS IS THE FIRST TIEBREAKER. which is the only thing we are talking about. again, the question we are addressing is "what is the first tiebreaker"? and again, the article says SOS IS THE FIRST TIEBREAKER. not head-to-head. and the reason why it does not mention head-to-head IS BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A TIEBREAKER.
try to keep up.

berk, I am chuckling at the fact that you post a ranking that ranks teams with the same record as being higher or lower than one another and then argue that head to head competition had nothing to do with the ranking of those teams.

Show me one of those identical records where one team beat the other (either once in the case on non-division teams or twice in the case of division teams) yet the loser is ranked lower on the list (being from 1 to 32 and thus from best to worse) than the winner?

LOL. You come out declaring yourself the "Truth" PhinFans2 and you start off with a lie......well, an inaccuracy. As always, I have no problem with your honesty. It's always a case with your accuracy.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bob, you are wrong...as usual.
> >
> > Berk and DolphinMike are correct.
> >
> > Need proof?
> >
> > Why would the NFL use its divisional
> tiebreakers
> > to rank the teams 32-1, then use strength of
> > schedule as the first tiebreaker for draft
> > order... only to then go to divisional
> tiebreaker
> > AGAIN to resolve any ties not broken by
> divisional
> > tiebreaker or SOS the first time around?
>
> RESPONSE: Easy, PhinFans2. What if the
> divisional teams under consideration split 1-1 in
> their games?
>
>


Bob, I'm only going to make two points here and then I'm going to do my absolute best to forget that you even exist...I'd hope you would afford me the same courtesy.

1: Ask yourself this Bob...why would the NFL have to write into its rules to use the SAME tiebreakers TWICE. To use them first...then use another...then come back to them after that "other" fails to resolve the issue. That makes less sense than you do.

The same rules are going to produce the same results at the beginning of the process as at the end of it if the middle component fails to change the equation. Which is of course the precise reason the NFL didn't set it up the way you are suggesting.

they'd have looked pretty incompetent if they had.



2: You are wrong. DEAD wrong. As usual, you will go down swinging...defending your position at all costs. Can't wait to see if you man up once the reality of your mistake finally registers.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As always, I have no problem with
> your honesty.

What a steaming pile of horsepucky.

(And I have the PM's to prove it.)

Commonsense for all you fence-sitters.

Common logic. Even PhinFans2 and berk would agree (maybe I shouldn't be so hasty but well, I'll try) that the whole purpose of the draft is to even out the teams by allowing the weaker teams to draft first.

Can I get an "amen" on that at least, berk?

Berk, I and realist already "educated" you that this is done by letting, among teams with the same record, the one playing the easier schedule to draft first and the one with the tougher schedule to draft last?

Agreed?????? Don't go back on me, berk.


So, the League says that if you have a better record, you draft last because we want the team with the poorest record, and thus the weakest to draft first.


Next, you agree that the league says that if the teams are from different divisions and never played each other and tied in their records, the team with the weakest SOS drafts first. Why do you think that is?

It's because again the League wants the team that "sucks" more, as Realist put it, to draft first because they are the weaker team.

So everything about which you concede says that the NFL wants the weaker team to draft first.


So...............................................why in the hell would the league not look at the fact that one team beat the other in their only game or beat them twice in both their games to come to the simple conclusion that the loser is the weaker team?

Why would a team that lost both of its game to the team they are vying for a draft spot with have to draft AFTER the team that beat them based on other teams they played and the records of THOSE teams.

The best indication of the better team is head to head.

Ignoring head-to-head is the most craziest thing in the world if you are looking for the worst team.

That's why head to head is the first tiebreaker after won-lost record when they are determining play off spots.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As always, I have no problem with
> > your honesty.
>
> What a steaming pile of horsepucky.
>
> (And I have the PM's to prove it.)

Go back and read those PMs, I was challenging your interpretation and you were challenging MY honesty.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ChyrenB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > As always, I have no problem with
> > > your honesty.
> >
> > What a steaming pile of horsepucky.
> >
> > (And I have the PM's to prove it.)
>
> Go back and read those PMs, I was challenging your
> interpretation and you were challenging MY
> honesty.


no...I was challenging your sanity. YOU were challenging my integrity (aka...my "honesty" ) with delusional conspiracy theories.


But enough about that...I quit being a MOD so you won't have to worry about that stuff going forward.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2012 01:45PM by THE Truth.

I'm no expert on the mechanics, but do these tweets help shed light? (taken from the News Wire page)

BenVolinPBP Funny that the #Dolphins will finish higher than the #Bills in the standings, but will also have the better draft pick


BenVolinPBP With a few games still pending, this appears to be the current draft order: IND, STL, MIN, CLE, TB, WAS, JAX, CAR, MIA, KC, BUF

richred_uk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm no expert on the mechanics, but do these
> tweets help shed light? (taken from the News Wire
> page)
>
> BenVolinPBP Funny that the #Dolphins will finish
> higher than the #Bills in the standings, but will
> also have the better draft pick
>
>
> BenVolinPBP With a few games still pending, this
> appears to be the current draft order: IND, STL,
> MIN, CLE, TB, WAS, JAX, CAR, MIA, KC, BUF


Volin better set some filters on his twitter account and e-mail.

I'm betting there's some incoherent drivel heading his way...

chyren EVERY person who has posted on this topic disagrees with you. what do you make of that?

richred_uk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm no expert on the mechanics, but do these
> tweets help shed light? (taken from the News Wire
> page)
>
> BenVolinPBP Funny that the #Dolphins will finish
> higher than the #Bills in the standings, but will
> also have the better draft pick
>
>
> BenVolinPBP With a few games still pending, this
> appears to be the current draft order: IND, STL,
> MIN, CLE, TB, WAS, JAX, CAR, MIA, KC, BUF

Is this from the NFL or another fan, Like berk and PF2, posting based on his (BenVolin') view of the order of the draft?

Another thing I didn't think about is that if there are multi-teams in consideration for one draft spot, the rules may be different (the same as they are for a playoff spot) than they are if there are only two teams involved.

I've seen that happen where one team has beaten another of the two and because of the crazy three way tie rules, that team does not get to go and in fact, that losing team may go.

I'm not saying that applies here but I was only looking at which team between Miami and Buff would pick first.

But so were berk and The truth. They never mentioned a three or four way tie.

They argued with me "straight up" that between Miami and Buff, Miami would pick first even though we beat them twice.

Thanks for a little commonsense from the "Mother Country."