.....the conditioning coordinator who insisted on more high-humidity/high temperature workouts.


*(not saying we actually cut anybody like that, but poor heat conditioning on the Defensive side of the ball was the primary reason for this loss).

clearly that is a reference at least in part to me. look, it's not just cutting the players, it's how we did it, when we did it, what we got for them. we got rid of ginn for peanuts when he had more value to us than a 5th rounder. we cut jason allen when he was leading the team in INTs and starting for us. we cut sapp after 1 game when the staff apparently had just recently concluded he was the 3d best CB on the team. I am not saying these players are great, but we didn't replace them with anyone better and the decision making and timing raises larger issue with the competence of those in charge.

I understand your point that the guy who got cut was cut because he left much to be desired....but you don't throw away worn tires unless you have a better set to put on the car.


The FO must be held accountable for their ability or lack f ability to upgrade the roster.

Every team ( except the Pats) have their 'Ted Ginn' or Jason Allen. The good ones put up with their sorry asses until they have an upgrade.

Our team gets rd of imperfect guys who still have some value and then when they find out that they needed that asset because no one else seems to have it..then they try and fix it.

Jason Allen led the team in Interceptions despite less playing time. Was a solid tackler and a special teams standout. The got rid of him and we had fewer take-aways, and our special teams were horrid last year.

Ted Ginn had LOTS of problems as a WR....but he also had LOTS of SPEED..which made him a problem for defenses. They never even tried to see what would happen with him and Marshall together. They shipped him out and replaced his speed with......nothing. Once they saw the FORESEEABLE negative impact last season...then they got Gates.


SO you are right that these players weren't keepers...but the coaches Never should have cut them until they had upgrades in place.

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand your point that the guy who got cut
> was cut because he left much to be desired....but
> you don't throw away worn tires unless you have a
> better set to put on the car.
>
>
> The FO must be held accountable for their ability
> or lack f ability to upgrade the roster.
>
> Every team ( except the Pats) have their 'Ted
> Ginn' or Jason Allen. The good ones put up with
> their sorry asses until they have an upgrade.
>
> Our team gets rd of imperfect guys who still have
> some value and then when they find out that they
> needed that asset because no one else seems to
> have it..then they try and fix it.
>
> Jason Allen led the team in Interceptions despite
> less playing time. Was a solid tackler and a
> special teams standout. The got rid of him and we
> had fewer take-aways, and our special teams were
> horrid last year.
>
> Ted Ginn had LOTS of problems as a WR....but he
> also had LOTS of SPEED..which made him a problem
> for defenses. They never even tried to see what
> would happen with him and Marshall together. They
> shipped him out and replaced his speed
> with......nothing. Once they saw the FORESEEABLE
> negative impact last season...then they got
> Gates.
>
>
> SO you are right that these players weren't
> keepers...but the coaches Never should have cut
> them until they had upgrades in place.


exactly right

We are better off with a 50 year old Marino at QB.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys keep
> lamenting Ginn the returner. You keep forgetting
> that he was drafted (and paid) to be a starting WR
> and that he was a DISMAL failure at that job.

RESPONSE: This is precisely the type of idiocy I mean. If the best return man in the business who can get you so many kickoff touchdowns a season is not effective as a wide receiver, cut him and let some other team get the benefit. Accept a B player for the same position rather than a C player like him at that position who is an ALL-STAR in another aspect of the game.

Like a turtle, keep your head in your shell and just look at his position and make the whole decision based on that instead of on the wider view.

When the Patriots wanted Wes Welker, did they say "Oh boy, we want to trade for him because he's gonna be the next Randy Moss?????????????????"

Hell no, they recognized that there are values in a player of his type beyond his job description. And he has proved it time and time again.

On the other hand, maybe I shouldn't be so hard on you because maybe you're not a suck-up but maybe your problem is simply that you are about as stupid as the management and that's why you make comments like this that show a lack of an ability to think your way out of a paper bag.

Ginn......"the best return man in the business"???????? Really?

Come on now PF2- I said, Crowder excelled at th areas, that were exploited on monday... I didnt see to much of the MLB covering, did you? Yet they couldnt hold down their part of the football field... I like Burnett and Dansby, but they were horrible and out of position alot on monday night. I understand Crowders health, and his covering ability... But that is not what the patriots exploited. SO it is a fair comment.... Do i think we should cut all of these players and sign old ones, not neccasarily. But it is more then fair to mention, what seem to be lost while making gains... That is football and that is fair....
I am not against signing Allen or cutting Sapp. Sapp made a rookie mistake, when you have your veteran Cb make a huge rookie mistake, and he is paid 1.9 million... He has got to go, Of all the mistakes a vet can make, that one was not acceptable... The younger guys, the ocaches cut some slack but the guys that are suppost know better, need to go... and Sapp was cut... Tedd Ginn, just needed a fresh start, Kind of like Reggie Bush

In case you missed it our stacked defense gave up 700+ yards in one game, and couldnt stop anything..... When that happens, rightfully so, people are going to start to ask questions about moves this offseason......

Now I will say this, granted defenses as a whole across the NFL had pretty slow starts. Defense is a tape watching, gameplanning, make adjustments type of game.... So it seems, like whatever happen this offseason across the nfl, the offense were way ahead and the defenses are still behind on making adustments... so to speak... SO I believe for whatever reasons contrary to normal, we will start to see the defenses tighten up as time goes one...
Hell the NFL tried to eliminate kickoff returning with certain rules changes, and what did we get more kick off returned for TD's then any opeing week in history..... Weird year, is all I can say, and not much went as thought opeing week.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1) If you are suggesting that Crowder excelled in
> coverage when you just said: "Crowder excelled at
> th areas, that were exploited on monday... I didnt
> see to much of the MLB covering, did you? "
> ...then you should just stop right there.

Nope, you misread me, I am saying that I saw the safeties and Sean Smith, etc covering the TE's and others more then the MLB's.. The MLB, were trying to unssuccessfully play the run more then anything....(that is what Crowder excelled at, covering the underneat middle of the field and run,. The patriots seem to game plan so that they MLB's were rarely invovled in the play... or the MLB were just not reading the plays very well.(something else Crowder exceled at)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2011 10:43AM by Crowder52.

The DOlphins and Channing Crowder with much weaker talent around him then is on this team now, never gave up 700+yards in game during his entire tenure... That is something no one else on this team can say... But Crowder resumes doesnt say that... So , you be the judge... If you asked Dansby or even Sparano, if he missed Crowder on monday night, they would both say yes, but fans that dont now better will be stubborn and foolish about what Crowder brought to this team... Pretty simple really

God. Damnit. I love this phorum!!!

You clearly are putting my own rage to shame lately, PF2, but I agree with you that those who lament cutting a marginal player are annoying as all hell.

The problem is that PF2 is criticising users of this forum for talk about the change that occured this offseason after one of the worst defensive performances in the history of this team... And he wants label and attack those that dare question the moves... There was a game, and players played a certain way... This is not speculation crap this is questioning additions and subtractions of players after a dismal performance... I understand PF2 points, and I whiling like Crowder have always said I agreed that Burnett appeared to be an upgrade and I didnt question the move, but Monday night in Burnett and others chance to show what they bring to the team fell flatter then hell..And if Crowder was on the field when something like what happened on monday night, he would be getting bashed up and down... But somehow, we are all labeled, as annoying as hell and other things for merely commenting on subect matter that is more then right in our face... The team and coaches believe they deserve and brought on this type of questioning, and to be honest, it scares mre more and annoys the hell out of me, when people attack other users for having a fair position and trying and create this bubble where if you criticise or ask legitimate questions about a poor performance by players, and instead choosing to attack players who werent even on the field instead of pointing fingers at the ones who actually embarrased us and themselves... That is what bothers me... Henne had a good game , no one is after his perfromance... The defense failed and lost us the game, they are the ones on the hot seat and they deserve everybit of it at this point... Dont worry, they have a chance to redeem themsevles in a few days.... What is going on in this forum is no different then in the lockerroom... The defense is taking a hard weak in practice and from the coaches,Nolan was embarassed... SO get off the high horse of telling others what they should or shouldnt talk about , as it pertains to our teams performance last week and this offseason, it is more justified then your responses to the facts and subject matter being discussed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2011 11:50AM by Crowder52.

On Wes Welker, I believe that was an inside deal between Shady Nick Saban and the guy who made him who he is. Saban praised Welker, Belichick coveted Welker. When dirt bag Nick, knew he was leaving, he traded Welker as a pay back to his old friend, his loyalty was not with the Dolphins it was with Belichick IMO... If Saban was staying he never would have given up Welker IMO. so on his way out it was one more F U to this town.... He was such a dirtbag