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          Brandon Marshall update
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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 29, 2011 04:37AM


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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 29, 2011 07:01AM

Good. With Marshall's improved speed, Bess, Gates, Hartline, and Clay...all we need is a good QB.

Hopefully the light switch turns on for Henne this year.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Date: May 29, 2011 07:18AM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good. With Marshall's improved speed, Bess, Gates,
> Hartline, and Clay...all we need is a good QB.
>
> Hopefully the light switch turns on for Henne this
> year.


I hope so too. but it was pretty stupid for them to throw all the eggs in a basket called Chad Henne. And I hate the Idea of yet another veteran castoff from another team.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 29, 2011 08:02AM

Yeah but a great argument can be put up for how stupid it would be to invest a draft pick on a rookie QB that is not an upgrade over Robbie the Robot.

Right!?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: May 29, 2011 08:28AM

I'm pulling for Henne I really am, I'm just worried he's gonna improve just enough to be mediocre, I hope we see vast improvement or he sharts the bed and stinks up the joint, so there's no doubt which direction to go next year.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 29, 2011 08:29AM

Nobody is arguing that Henne wasnt extremely disappointing at times last year. Some just believe, including me, that Henne has a chance to playe alot better this year, under a new system more favorable to his style, And help on the offense with some speed and interior line additions, Henne has as good of shot of playing much better then any of the rookie Qb's we had a shot at drafting.. So, until we see, we are going to believe in a better Henne... But trust me, if he starts bombing, it will not take long for that tide to turn. But at this point, it hasnt...

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: May 29, 2011 10:04AM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm pulling for Henne I really am,

Honestly, any Phins fan who isn't pulling for Henne isn't a real fan in my book. Those guys that hope we lose so we can draft Luck are losers to me.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: May 29, 2011 10:24AM


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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 29, 2011 11:14AM

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some just believe, including me, that Henne has a
> chance to playe alot better this year, under a new
> system more favorable to his style, And help on
> the offense with some speed and interior line
> additions, Henne has as good of shot of playing
> much better then any of the rookie Qb's we had a
> shot at drafting
>
> That is one of the most on-target and rational
> statements regarding Henne that I have read.
>
> Sure, Henne didn't have a great year last year.
> But neither did the running game. In fact, our
> entire offense blew last year. The offensive line
> sucked. Brandon Marshall seemed to drop more
> passes than he held on to. We had no real
> catching TE. And the offensive coordinator was a
> senile old man. Yea, the offense was complete and
> utter crap and Henne's performance was just one
> part of it.
>
> I like what was done this offseason with the
> offense. And if we ever do get around to playing
> football (very debatable) then I agree that this
> is the year to make judgments on Henne. If he
> still sucks, then we should have the draft picks
> next year to get a good QB.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Both of you guys are exactly right. And this is exactly the point I have been trying to make for months now. Even going back to when I was saying we needed to pick Mike Pouncey.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: May 29, 2011 11:33AM

I like the comparison to last year's defensive overhaul. It's not a perfect analogy (e.g. Daboll's no Nolan).

But, remember that our 09 defense was truly disappointing, and we switched DC and I think 8 or 9 of 11 starters. I remember worrying about Solai and Clemons and Smith and Wake...how much impact would Dansby really have? My fear now (assuming games are played) is that they will regress for no apparent reason, as they should actually get better.

On offense this year, we should see a fresh look in terms of approach. I think that deep down inside Sparano knows he can't do another 7-9 season with essentially the same approach. I'm excited by the speed we added at WR. Frankly, I hope to see some aggressive 4 WR sets with Bess, Marshall, Hartline & Gates. While I'm somewhat worried about the potential turnover @ RB, I'm most concerned (but also excited by) the OL. Long is the best in the game. Pouncey should be a top 10 starter at C for a good number of years. Garner really impressed me in 08 and may be a starter for us somewhere on the line. Can Carey come back to above average and can Jerry or Incognito be a quality starter @ G? I'm glad I'm not paid to make it so, but I do know that if we have a really good OL, everything else works much, much better. The dumbest thing we did last year was to gut the interior OL because it was the thing that started the domino effect (no traditional running game -> getting cute with wildcat -> playcalling that just didn't make sense -> Henne put in bad position and not playing well in the bad position -> OC loses all faith in Henne -> viscous cycle continues). With an OL that works and establishes the running game, Henne perhaps has more time consistently to have some success and build upon it.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 29, 2011 01:33PM

The true fact is this,

Henne flopped on 6 final drives last year. 6 drives we had the ball on the final drive with a chance to win.

But think about it like this....if Dan Henning was any slight bit better of a play-caller, we might not have even put Henne in a position to fail. If we are even just a hair bit more dynamic minded of an offense, we are winning by a little bit more in those games where the ball is not in Henne's hands to win it.

Just a thought.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: May 29, 2011 03:32PM

right on both counts.

I'm not too excited, after last year, about putting the game in his hands with a minute down by 6.

However, a more confident Henne - more confident because he's thrived a bit more in the less critical moments - is perhaps one who can perform better than he did last year.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 29, 2011 04:46PM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The true fact is this,
>
> Henne flopped on 6 final drives last year. 6
> drives we had the ball on the final drive with a
> chance to win.
>
> But think about it like this....if Dan Henning was
> any slight bit better of a play-caller, we might
> not have even put Henne in a position to fail. If
> we are even just a hair bit more dynamic minded of
> an offense, we are winning by a little bit more in
> those games where the ball is not in Henne's hands
> to win it.
>
> Just a thought.

It was only 5 times. 4 of our losses were by 16 or more points.

Believe it or not, I do game summaries for several Fins fans that don't get to the see the games, so I actually take copious notes.

The first one of those 5 was the Jets game. That was the game where we got inside the 10, and then Marshall ran out of gas. Henne tried to go to him 3 times, and Marshall made no effort to get open. On a fade route, he didn't even jump for the ball. Finally, on 4th down, Henne gave up on Marshall and forced it to Fasano, and had it tipped and intercepted. This was the game where Sterling Sharpe and the guys on NFL Network called Marshall on the carpet for his lack of effort and/or running out of gas at the end. Had they pulled that one out, on national TV on a Sunday night, maybe that confidence goes a long way for the rest of the season.

The Pittsburgh attempted last minute drive started with a draw play to Ronnie. And then we couldn't block Lamarr Woodley on the next two plays. If the officials got the fumble call correct, we are never in this situation.

Against Cleveland, we lost Hartline to injury, and Marshall was already out. That was the game where Sparano talked about how difficult it made the passing game, because you had Marlon Moore and Roberto Wallace both forced into action, and both not running correct routes. Sparano talked about them not running routes to the correct depth, which threw off the timing altogether. If anyone remembers, once Hartline was injured, the Browns doubled and tripled Bess, and we were left with nowhere to throw the ball. When we got the ball back with a minute thirty left, and 1 timeout, the first playcall was a toss sweep to Ronnie.

In the Bills' loss, Dan Carpenter missed 4 FG, including a 48 yarder with under 2 minutes left. Henne was 10 for his last 12 in that game, but that drive de-reailed when they went wildcat on a 2nd and 10 play. That set up a 3rd and 9, where Henne could only complete a short pass to Bess under an all out blitz. then, to top it off, we get the ball back again, with 42 seconds left and no timeouts. And the first call of that desperation drive has Henne lined up under center with Ricky at HB and Polite at FB in an offset I. And this was also the game where Benny Sapp, with just the QB to beat on an INT return, tried to lateral to Vontae Davis, and we were lucky to recover the fumble. Sean Smith also dropped a pick-6 in this game.

The Lions game, now this was a debacle. Leading 24-17 with 10 minutes left, Ronnie runs one down to the 1 yard line. It's called back for holding on Jake Long, and we wind up settling for a FG by running 3 times from the 16, to go up 27-17. After an exchange of punts, we give up a long punt return, and then a 53 yard TD pass to Jahvid Best, whom no one covered, 27-24. Trying to kill the clock with 4 minutes left, we throw a ball to Mickey Shuler, getting his first action of the year. He doesn't finish his route, and the ball is intercepted. They tie it at 27. It's also worth mentioning that this is the game where McQuistan replaced Murtha at RT, and he played so poorly that he actually made Murtha look not that bad. On a 3rd down, Henne makes the correct read (according to Sparano) and throws one to Bess, who falls down, and the ball is intercepted and run back for a TD, Lions up 34-27. We get a good kick return, but a penalty negates it, and we have to start at the 6 yard line, with 2:12 left. Henne is getting absolutely killed by the pass rush. Luckily, we get a facemask penalty to keep the drive alive. At this point, we start keeping Ronnie and Polite in to block, because the pass rush is so intense. Henne completed a few short ones, and then a big one to Shuler down to the Lions' 30 with 45 seconds left to play. But, alas, that big one is negated by a chop block penalty on John Jerry. That's a 15 yard penalty that negated a 20 yard completion, so it amounts to a 35 yard penalty. Eventually, we do get back to the Lions' 30, but with under 20 seconds remaining, and we end up with the short pass to Ronnie in the flat and he gets tackled in bounds and time expires.

No, Henne did not pull out any of these games. But, he had plenty of help in not pulling out any wins. From Henning's playcalling to stupid penalties to injuries to a star WR running out of gas to poor pass protectionto a lack of depth at WR and TE.

Henne definitely regressed in 2010. No doubt about it. And I don't know that he is the guy for us long term. But, people want to blame all of our offensive woes on him, and it simply was not the case. Not by a longshot.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 29, 2011 06:50PM

Either way Mark, my point is....if Dan Henning would have had our offense just a tad more explosive throughout the course of the game, Henne would have never had to lead us to a win on any final drive.

Thats all I was trying to say.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 30, 2011 03:21AM


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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 30, 2011 05:17AM

I was with you, buddy! smileys with beersmileys with beer

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 30, 2011 09:58AM

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Believe it or not, I do game summaries for several
> Fins fans that don't get to the see the games, so
> I actually take copious notes.
>

That is an interesting statement! You have sparked my intrigue, I have to ask, what you mean.
DO you mean you help blind people with what happens during games. or that you help people away in the military or in the jungle,desert, on ships? or that you are a scout?
Sorry to be inquisitive, just you have great football knowledge
and that was an interesting explanation for taking detailed notes of the games.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 30, 2011 02:10PM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfanmark Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Believe it or not, I do game summaries for
> several
> > Fins fans that don't get to the see the games,
> so
> > I actually take copious notes.
> >
>
> That is an interesting statement! You have sparked
> my intrigue, I have to ask, what you mean.
> DO you mean you help blind people with what
> happens during games. or that you help people away
> in the military or in the jungle,desert, on ships?
> or that you are a scout?
> Sorry to be inquisitive, just you have great
> football knowledge
> and that was an interesting explanation for taking
> detailed notes of the games.

It's a couple of buddies that are in the military. They are diehard Fins fans (they are brothers, and their mom went to high school with Nick Buoniconti), and they ask me to keep them up to speed on game results and what goes on with the team. So, I send them pretty detailed summaries of each game. I highlight all the scoring plays, and make notes for them on what I think are key moments or crucial blunders.

That's how I can pull out a detail like the Bills game. We have the ball at the Bills 35, just over 2 minutes left, and Henne is 10 for his last 12. On 2nd and 10, he gets pulled for a wildcat play, one without even Ricky going in motion, which gains 1 yard. On 3rd and 9, Henne gets an all out blitz, and the hot read is a quick 3 yarder to Bess. I'm sorry, it comes across as being a Henne supporter, but that sequence is more on Dan Henning than it is on Henne. We hadn't run the ball well all game, Henne was hot, we had plenty of time to drive for a winning TD, and they call a straight up wildcat run on 2nd and 10?

Or a detail like how with 1:50 left in the Cleveland game, Nolan Carroll jumped a route, had a game winning pick-6 in his hands, and flat out dropped it. When we got the ball back from a punt, with 1:30 left, 1 timeout, and 50 yards to go to get into FG range, we called a toss sweep to Ronnie Brown. Or that once Hartline got hurt at the end of the first half, we only had 3 completions to a WR, 2 to Bess and 1 to Wallace. Without Marshall or Hartline, we had no legitimate weapons in the passing game except for Bess, and it killed the offense in the second half.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 31, 2011 11:20AM

much respect Mark, that is cool of you, i am sure your friends appreciate it more then you realize.. Plus it gives you some great facts and insight to base your opinions and observations on the DOlphins.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 31, 2011 03:23PM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> much respect Mark, that is cool of you, i am sure
> your friends appreciate it more then you realize..
> Plus it gives you some great facts and insight to
> base your opinions and observations on the
> DOlphins.


Thank you. Another thing I started doing this season is charting the games. I read Pat Kirwan's book, "Take Your Eye Off the Ball," which is just a fantastic, fantastic book for football fans to read, because it really explains what's going on during games that you don't always pay attention to. His basic way to chart a game is to record the down and distance, line of scrimmage, what personnel package is in, and then the play that was run. The personnel package is always noted with a 2-digit number, the first being the number of RBs in the game, and the 2nd number is the number of TE. So, 21 personnel is 2 backs and a TE. 11 personnel is 1 RB and 1 TE, which means 3 WR are in the game. Etc, etc. This was really eye opening into our predictability. If you think our offense seemed predictable, charting the games cemented that thought in concrete. It was amazing how consistently we would go to the same personnel packages and same playcalls in the same situations from week to week. Tony Sparano's son has been hired as the offensive quality control coach. In that role, his job is to track tendencies, and make sure we don't become predictable. I don't know if anyone filled that role in 2010, but it sure didn't look like it.

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: June 01, 2011 09:37AM

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > much respect Mark, that is cool of you, i am
> sure
> > your friends appreciate it more then you
> realize..
> > Plus it gives you some great facts and insight
> to
> > base your opinions and observations on the
> > DOlphins.
>
>
> Thank you. Another thing I started doing this
> season is charting the games. I read Pat Kirwan's
> book, "Take Your Eye Off the Ball," which is just
> a fantastic, fantastic book for football fans to
> read, because it really explains what's going on
> during games that you don't always pay attention
> to.

RESPONSE: Glad you did this, Mark. People like KB who are down on Henne should read this and put things in perspective.

I know its easy to give the QB too much credit and too much blame.

But if it's the won and lost record you are concerned about, historical recaps like this are invaluable.

Now, of course, some of the "Quarterback is all that matters" folks will simply say, "Yeah but if Henne had done this or that or had been a better all around QB, those critical things you point out wouldn't matter."

Which, of course, means, "you can't win with those type of people."

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: June 01, 2011 09:44AM

good stuff, mark. maybe you could also post your write ups on this board? could make some interesting reading (even though we all watch every game). I agree, the play-calling is so pitiful at the end of games and I constantly scream at the TV when I see us come out in end-of-game drives in running formation (and then call an off tackle run). I had forgotten the specifics thanks for the reminders! (ugh)

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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: June 01, 2011 07:36PM


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Re: Brandon Marshall update
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: June 02, 2011 02:20AM

Thanks for the insight into how the pro's chart games. Fascinating stuff. I hope Sparano's son, lives up to his job description. I cant believe there was no one providing any oversight into offensive quality control last year... A layman, could predict a large majority of our play calling last year... I like Henning, I just dont think he had the right personel, to pull off the offense he wanted, and his failure to adapt to his changing personel, is what caused a large part of the offensive let downs last year.

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