Phinsfan2 Wrote:
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>
> Prices don't go down if the players get a bad
> deal. Profit margins for owners go up.
>
> Fans still get screwed.


That is wrong again, if the owners get a better deal they will lower ticket prices, to fill up the stadiums. I can promise you the worse deal the owners get they surely can not lower prices, they need to become more profitable. When the dolphins are losing money under this CBA its hard to justify charging the fan less, for an experience they can not pay for. IF they stop the bleeding it gives them more wiggle room with ticket prices. If the bleeding continues what choice do they have but to charge the fans that are going more.

dolphaholic Wrote:
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>
> A real stretch of the facts Crowder, the owners
> were locking them out at midnight, the players had
> to decertify by 5pm EST or it would of cost them 6
> months before they could file the anti-trust
> lawsuits. You could argue that they should still
> be negotiating but if the players didn't decertify
> by 5 the owners would of walked out of that
> building with bigger chubs then Smiling Bob.


It is not a stretch, the owners would have continued negotiating, they have said that publicly, the players walked away and said the tactic was to decertify. How is that a stetch what so ever.

Crowder, I like you but you're cracking me up tonight! In back to back posts you actually said the owners would lower ticket prices AND were negotiating in good faith........good stuff man, good stuff

Their is enough money to go around however this is why the owners should get more of the revenue. A player does not have to pay to own the team meaning he has no investment in the game except that he will play and earn X amount of dollars. Where as the owners sometimes have to shell out hundreds of millions or even a billion dollars to purchase teams. Their investment is a heck of alot more theirfore in a fair world who makes the most money of any company you guessed it the owner. Same rules should apply here. Their is no difference. Yes the players sell tickets however i would watch the Doplhins with scrub players because I ultimately root for the team not the players.

I think there is a little more to the average salary than the formulas that have been discussed. The money the Nflpa gets has more taken out than just player salaries. There is also retired players pensions and health care I would think as well as NFLPA employees.....president....lawyers....accountants...etc.

Also...I read both letters that were issued by both parties and it sure sounded to me like the owners are lying and playing games.

A letter responding to the NFL was mailed by Kevin Mawae...I believe....and the other nfl plaintiffs and they answered every allegation line by line and it sure didn't look good for the owners...who were sounding like politicians.

They want to play word games and supply certain financial data that is useless.

All I know is that if the players win the appeal and the next case then we will have football sooner. If not we are screwed as fans.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

dolphaholic Wrote:
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> Crowder, I like you but you're cracking me up
> tonight! In back to back posts you actually said
> the owners would lower ticket prices AND were
> negotiating in good faith........good stuff man,
> good stuff


Dolphaholic, I like you guys too, but of course we are all not going to agree on this type of stuff. IF everyone agreed, the NFL probably would not be at this point it is in today.
My point is just basic business, supply and demand, if the owners have unsold seats, like they have, they will lower prices on the seats, as long as it is something that is sustainable. Right now lowering prices as salaries constantly go up, is just not a reality. I dont think there is alot to argue about that. The Heat lowered tickets prices in 2008, and then rasied them again last July. Owners lower ticket prices is something that does happen in normal sports business' based on supply and demand. With a broken model like the NFL, nothing positive will happen for the fan.

I own a business, I see no need to share my financial statements with anyone but a financially vested partner, or a bank or IRS , anyone else doesnt have the right. That is why you are a private business, you have the right to privacy of your financial records. The players are not partners and only employees and the owners dont owe anyone anything. The point about the GB Packers is well made. They are a team that doesnt have major stadium debt, or owner that has a huge cost of debt to have purchased the team. Yet with out those debts the public records show GB only made ten million. That should more then tell you with stadium debt and purchase debt the NFL model is completely destroyed. If the owners fully disclose their financial records it would destroy them in value. Banks would call in loans, they would have nothing but a bad assett. and everybody would know it, and that would destroy even more value for the owners. people wake up to the reallity of large debt.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
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> ghotirule Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > I've already said, I don't care who wins.
>
>
> I hope they both win.
>
> Otherwise we'll be right back at this point in 5-7
> years when the new CBA expires.
Do you really believe we WON'T be right back at this point in 5-7 years? I fully expect we will.

I hope they both win as well, I just dont believe the NFLPA is being realistic about the risk and cost of large debt. It is real and the owners have to address it. We will not see football until this issue of teams debt is dealt with. IF a team has cost of purchase debt and or stadium debt, they are not remotely profitable compared to the cost of the money invovled. When teams were worth 200 million, the cba kind of worked. But know that cost of purchase debt and stadium debt is between 400 to 1.5 billion. Even at 4 or 5 percent, the numbers are ridiculous. SO currently no one can buy or sell a team, and have the cash flow come anywhere near to covering the debt. Now add to this the problem that say MR Ross died, his family would be required to come up with 40 to 50 percent of the value of the team in cash, in very short period of time. Owning an NFL team has become dangerous, foolish, and a type of problem that could destroy the families involved wealth. Wayne sold the team, because he was worried about the estate tax cost associated with owning the Dolphins and dieing. He saw from the Robbies, that is not a good decision. Lots of owners involved with estate planning which most of them are doing at their age and wealth, realize they cannot sell the teams either. THese are real problems that have to be solved before we see football. If the players are unwilling to help the owners solve these problems, we have a serious problem. So you can argue right or wrong, or what is fair or not, but reality is reality. And these owners will not destroy their families future over the players and agents.

If owners have trouble selling their team, maybe the NFL should facilitate the Packers model so more teams are publicly owned. Don't know how much that would solve, but it would take the owners out of the equation.