He won't with Henne, unless he makes a huge turnaround.

marshall wants to win and have a QB that can get it too him in the red zone

Was anyone happy with our OC, execution & gameplan?

We need a speedy guy opposite him to open things up and a vet QB that can execute in the red zone

That is my point....Marshall aint gonna be here much longer.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I'm going to be ticked if we trade Marshall because the coaching staff doesn't know how to best utilize him.

There's an odd perception that Marshall had a down year playing with Henne. He didn't. Per game, and per catch, Marshall had the same year he has every year. He averages 6.5 catches per game, and 12 yards per catch. That's what he did this year, too. He is what he is. In fact, he only averaged 11.1 yards per catch his last year in Denver, so 2010 was a step up for him.

And his TD receptions have never been impressive when you look at his total number of catches. He averaged 7.9 TDs per season as a starter in Denver. That's not that great when you are getting over 100 catches per year. He's a possession receiver, plain and simple.

We actually did a better job getting him the ball further downfield than they did in Denver. In Denver, he averaged 12 yards per catch, but was getting 4-5 yards after catch. So, passes to him were covering 7-8 yards. He only averaged 2 yards after catch for us, so his 12 yard per catch average meant we were getting the ball to him 10 yards downfield.

As for his yards after catch, Marshall himself said that it was down because he didn't get much separation this season. People here like to blame it on Henne. But, Bess, Hartline, and Fasano all did much better with yards after catch than Marshall.

The last 3 seasons combined, throws to Marshall have resulted in 167 incompletions, 18 INT, 37 dropped passes, and 4 fumbles. That's an average of over 55 incompletions per year, 6 INT, and 12 drops. So, my question is why have his teams kept throwing to him? The payoff is not there. He catches a lot of balls, but he doesn't produce big yardage, and he doesn't score a lot of TDs. So, why do teams try to force him the ball so much? Is it just because they know he's a selfish whiner who won't shut up unless he gets the ball?

I don't think Marshall is good for any young QB. I really don't. A young QB is being coached to throw the ball where coverage dictates. And in Marshall, you have a guy who is going to demand that QB to throw him the ball regardless of coverage. And let's say the Dolphins go out and get some new weapons. They add a couple of young RBs to enhance the running game. They sign Zach Miller or Kellen Winslow to add a major weapon at TE. And they get a speedy WR to be a deep threat. Those new weapons mean less catches for Marshall. And who thinks that is going to go over well?

Jacksonville needs WR help. If they would trade us Reshad Jennings and a 2nd round pick for Marshall, I would jump on it in the blink of an eye. Minnesota will need a WR is Sidney Rice leaves. I'd take Toby Gerhart and a 2nd rounder for him in a heartbeat. Heck, I think I'd take Darrius Heyward-Bey or Louis Murphy and a 2nd rounder for him from Oakland.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Carolina will need a big time WR to help make
> Gabbert's transition to the NFL easier.
>
> How about Marshall to Carolina for their #2 this
> year and #1 next yerar (in essence a 2&3 this
> year)?


I'd be happy with David Gettis (6'3, 215, 4.45) and their #2.

Trading him would be stupid. Go after Vincent Jackson, and be done with our wr problem.

Hell trade Hartline somewhere, he could land a 4th, maybe a 3rd round, with his solid play.

Marshall, Bess, and Jackson, Jesus we would own.

Listen,

We cant trade Marshall for Ocho Stinko. That is getting worse.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I never agree with trading a sure thing for a gamble. I don't care how many draft picks we get, there's no guarantee that ANYONE we get will end up the same level WR as Marshall.

As ghotirule said, Marshall has talent. If we can't figure out how to best use that talent, then our coaching staff sucks. It won't make a difference WHO we get.

Remember, one organization already gave up on him. And now, we know that he had issues with Lee, Henning, and Dorrell. That's two teams and two coaching staffs, and Marshall can't get along with either.

If anyone has not seen the youtube video of Marshall intentionally batting down passes during a Broncos practice, you should check it out. And combine this with him intentionally committing penalties in our games, and you realize that this guy is not good for a football team. He is a "me first" player. Remember, we were winning the Cincy game, and he had just caught a pass in the red zone when he decided to throw the ball out of bounds and back us up. He didn't care that we were winning and driving for another score.

He is seriously selfish and immature. Dan Henning warned last December that a diva receiver can suck the life out of your team. And Marshall may be the perfect example of that. And the thing is, he doesn't have the skill set we need. We needed a deep threat. Marshall's whole career has been built around 8-10 yard routes. He was not what we needed at the time, and it was not a good use of draft picks or money.

Profootballfocus.com grades players on every play. And they factor in blocking, penalties, dropped passes, YAC, etc.

In 2010, Marshall graded out as the 28th best WR in the league. In 2009, he graded out as #30. In 2008, he was #14. How they decided that this guy was worth being the highest paid WR in the league in beyond me. He showed nothing special this season at all. He doesn't get separation at all. He gets his catches by simply being 6'4, 230.

And the truth is, his trade value is much less now than what we gave up for him. Now, he's proven that his problems with the coaches in Denver were not isolated to that coaching staff. And, he had another year where he was among the league leaders in drops. And now he has a monstrous contract that some team would have to take on.

This passing offense will never get above ordinary as long as Marshall and Bess are the two primary targets. Neither guy makes big plays, and both are at their best running short routes. They don't complement each other well at all. I would trade Marshall in a second. And go sign Vincent Jackson, or Malcolm Floyd, or James Jones. And sign Zach Miller at TE. And draft another speedy guy at WR. And watch the offense take off.

dolfanmark, I am so sick of you bringing facts into these arguments, can you please just let these posts stick to inaccurate public perceptions? Geez you can bog a post down with facts!

dolfanmark Wrote:
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> I would trade
> Marshall in a second. And go sign Vincent Jackson,
> or Malcolm Floyd, or James Jones. And sign Zach
> Miller at TE. And draft another speedy guy at WR.
> And watch the offense take off.
Wishful thinking. Even if we do that, I'm not confident our offense will "take off".

I hope he's not traded unless we get that proverbial "offer you can't refuse".

When we cleaned house on defense last year, I thought we did a very good job of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater (and we got lucky, I suppose, in a couple of instances). We landed Nolan...we kept Vontae and Kendall in their places, and they did very well. We tossed out the likes of Wilson, Porter, Taylor (sadly to me, but understandably). New rookie & 2nd year talent in Wake, Misi & Clemons paid off. The light came on for Soliai enabling Starks to be a pro-bowl DE.

I guess my point is that we've overhauled the offensive coaching staff, which needed to happen. I'm honestly not thrilled with how it turned out, but I don't see much alternative than to see how it plays out in 2011. I hope that they are careful about the moves they make, even if many need to be made. Marshall is not perfect, but he's not one of the top problems by any stretch. I would keep Marshall, Bess, Fasano, Long & Carey. I would keep Henne but bring in competition. I'd love to explore a speed receiver opposite Marshall with Bess as slot, and I am intrigued by the potential to move Carey to guard and have another tackle. Outside of those, I could envision upgrading everywhere else.

tsstamper Wrote:
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> I would keep Marshall, Bess, Fasano, Long & Carey.
> I would keep Henne but bring in competition.


> I'd
> love to explore a speed receiver opposite Marshall
> with Bess as slot,
Agreed

> and I am intrigued by the
> potential to move Carey to guard and have another
> tackle.
I actually think, with the right motivation, Carey can return to form at RT. He's actually one of the better RT's in the league when he isn't overweight or slacking off. Not sure a move to Guard will solve that.

> Outside of those, I could envision
> upgrading everywhere else.
I wouldn't mind picking up a speedy TE that MAY end up starting over Fasano. I'd like our TE's to be different (blocker/receiver) but interchangeable in amount of talent (like a couple years ago when we had David Martin).

I could go for that. Martin & Fasano were a nice 2-headed monster. Although not in competition with the likes of the interior OL debacle or the handling of several other questionable releases, Martin's release confuses me. He didn't light it up in BUF, but he tripled the number of catches for our collective backup TEs.

Marshall, Bess Hartline, and a new SPEEDY WR with some size would be a good group.

Marshall and Bess for that matter, would benefit from the speed guy in that they'd be open more often due to a backed off saftey.

Add to that mix a TE with the speed to get down field along with more three and four WR sets means the other saftey will have to back off too...it's win win for our group and Mrashall see's more balls.

The problem with Marshall, and Bess in 2010 IMHO was the routes called for them to run....entirely too many routes where they had to stop and wait for the ball.

We need to be agressive accross the board on offense this coming year.

Sorry guys, I just like recievers that act and play like...Reggie Wayne, Marques Colston, Greg Jennings, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, Miles Austin.


The guys like Terrell Owens, Ocho Stinko, and Brandon Marshall, I do not like. They hurt your teams.

Brandon Marshall hurt our team this year.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Find me an article where the players bash on Marshall for being disruptive in the clubhouse. Find me an article where the players want him gone. It's not gonna happen. You know why Marshall is being labeled as "difficult to work with" by coaching staff? It's because he spoke up about how shitty our QB production was, and he probably told Henning and the rest of the offensive game planners that their "game plan" was a stinking mass of cow feces. Come on guys, use your brains here. Marshall is the only top tier receiver we've had in the last decade and you numb skulls want to TRADE HIM? Are you high?

can't make any trades until new cba

wayne Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> can't make any trades until new cba


I guess you missed this part of his post at the top and asterisk

"****I know the CBA crap. Keep that out of this discussion.******"

A&O,
I am not in favor of trading Marshall quite yet. It is never a good practice to buy high and sell low... I also do not think it is going to happen, they brought in a new offensive cordinator, I imagine he will get his shot with Marhsall in his offense. Is Marhsall an NFL dream killer, I think that is yet to be determined. I do like that he owns it, in interviews and knows he has to keep improving his attitude. I think this year was a bad year for him and while he wasnt perfect, he got through it and is working on himself and being held accountable for it. The man has 40 million reasons to grow up, and I think he is maturing.

Thank you Crowder.

The reason I said that is because I am not necessarily talking about trading him this year, it could happen next offseason, and that is more of what I am talking about. I was speaking of driving his value up this year with big numbers then trading him next offseason.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Find me an article where the players bash on
> Marshall for being disruptive in the clubhouse.
> Find me an article where the players want him
> gone. It's not gonna happen.

Actually, Ricky Williams said that Marshall "makes it difficult to like him and support him."

Keep in mind that this is now two NFL coaching staffs that have found Marshall difficult to work with.

Marshall admitted that from the start of the season, he would come off the field and go to Pennington, not Henne, and ask Pennington why Henne didn't throw it to him on a particular play. And Pennington would ask, "were you open?", and Marshall would say, "well, no." This is not how you build a relationship with your QB. You don't go behind his back. You go to him, and you talk about the play. You establish a working relationship. But, that would be too hard for Marshall. He is the classic diva receiver. Unfortunately, he does not have the skill set to make him worth the trouble.