Yes I know this guy was a terrible pick at 9th overall and is a second-tier receiver with hands like Sean Smith but breaking it down into Laymans terms - he is the best you get next to Devin Hester

You figure this guy would be putting more points on the board than Henne this year



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2010 06:19AM by 561_Dolphins.

Every time I watch him return a kick for SFO I wish we had him. He got a bad rap here because of where he was drafted but he can flat out run.

561_Dolphins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes I know this guy was a terrible pick at 9th
> overall and is a second-tier receiver with hands
> like Sean Smith


Looks like you answered your own question. I personally would have liked to keep him as a KR but his dropped passes are the reason why we traded him away.

He hasn't exactly lit things up for SF this year either.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He hasn't exactly lit things up for SF this year
> either.

On the other hand, I like what I've seem from Nolan Carroll so far. He's the guy we got with SF's 5th rounder.

But there is another aspect, JC.

Defensive coordinators and coaches devote attention to blazing WRs even if they can't catch.

Something about defensive coordinators and coaches that lead them to be scared sh_tless about a WR running butt-naked (completely uncovered) toward their endzone. They just can't help but devote an unhealthy amount of coverage on him.

That would have taken A LOT OF pressure off Marshall. So we trade for Marshall and trade away what would have ensured he would not be double covered.

Ted Ginn Jr. has 9 receptions for 100 yards and no touchdowns.

He averages 21.8 yards per kickoff return with no TD's.

20 punt returns for an 11 yard average and no TD's.

Yeah, but that's not my point. My point is the attention that DCs devote to him.

ChambersDeepBall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ted Ginn Jr. has 9 receptions for 100 yards and no
> touchdowns.
>
> He averages 21.8 yards per kickoff return with no
> TD's.
>
> 20 punt returns for an 11 yard average and no
> TD's.


Thank you Chambers.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But there is another aspect, JC.
>
> Defensive coordinators and coaches devote
> attention to blazing WRs even if they can't
> catch.
>
> Something about defensive coordinators and coaches
> that lead them to be scared sh_tless about a WR
> running butt-naked (completely uncovered) toward
> their endzone. They just can't help but devote an
> unhealthy amount of coverage on him.
>
> That would have taken A LOT OF pressure off
> Marshall. So we trade for Marshall and trade away
> what would have ensured he would not be double
> covered.


I've said before, if it's just about speed (rather than actually catching the ball), put Nolan Carroll at WR.

Not true. If it was "just about speed" why not just go get a track star?

Hell if you had a track star, the same would apply. And I'm not sure Nolan Carroll is as fast as Ginn. And if he was, it would serve the purpose. Let me ask you both one question and don't do a PHinFans2 on me and decline to discuss it. What if there was a guy standing on the opposition's 10 yard line EVERYTIME with no one around him, as a defensive coordinator how much money are you BANK on the fact that he's not going to catch the ball. EVEN IF HE'S A BASKETBALL PLAYER!

Ted Ginn would have taken the heat off of Brandon Marshall.

Agree or Disagree. Put your money where your mouth is.

Agree to a certain extent Chyren, no doubt he could of helped but then you're keeping a guy that could actually catch the ball on the sidelines, whats the trade off? Would you trust Ginn on 3rd downs like you do Bess? I wouldn't. You wanna bench Hartline for Ginn? I wouldn't. You bring him in on only certain 4 rec. sets and yes he would help. But I also think his name was mud with the fan base and he needed to be moved.

HARTLINE??????????? Use the "search" function on Hartline and limit your searches to "ChyrenB." You will find that I heartily disagree that Hartline would be better. Ginn would do what guys did in my high school and on the intramurals fields at Purdue. He would catch the ball, look at it in his hands and drop it. He has some kind of psychological problem with it.

Hartline, on the other hand, let's the ball bounce off of his wide-open PALM. He never clutches the ball. I have NO RESPECT for his ability to catch the ball and I would pick Ginn over him ANY DAY!

As I said, Hartline is on IR and that's the best place for him for my money.

carroll is a horrible KR. he will never break one for a TD. He literally runs in a straight line and can't change direction for the life of him. Plus he takes awhle to get to top speed and runs out of control, headlong into whatever is in front of him. Only way he breaks one is if he somehow runs up the middle, thru everyone, and outruns everyone. very few KOs are broken that way. he needs to be replaced back there by somone who can actually change directions.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> carroll is a horrible KR. he will never break one
> for a TD. He literally runs in a straight line and
> can't change direction for the life of him. Plus
> he takes awhle to get to top speed and runs out of
> control, headlong into whatever is in front of
> him. Only way he breaks one is if he somehow runs
> up the middle, thru everyone, and outruns
> everyone. very few KOs are broken that way. he
> needs to be replaced back there by somone who can
> actually change directions.

Got any ideas? Carroll has had some decent runbacks this year, including one to midfield a couple weeks ago. And, actually, most good KRs run straight ahead. You get a better average that way.

Ted Ginn is the sideline king and anyone who misses him has lost their mind! He may be fast but when your first decision is to go straight to the sideline, you are worthless!

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > carroll is a horrible KR. he will never break
> one
> > for a TD. He literally runs in a straight line
> and
> > can't change direction for the life of him.
> Plus
> > he takes awhle to get to top speed and runs out
> of
> > control, headlong into whatever is in front of
> > him. Only way he breaks one is if he somehow
> runs
> > up the middle, thru everyone, and outruns
> > everyone. very few KOs are broken that way. he
> > needs to be replaced back there by somone who
> can
> > actually change directions.
>
> Got any ideas? Carroll has had some decent
> runbacks this year, including one to midfield a
> couple weeks ago. And, actually, most good KRs
> run straight ahead. You get a better average that
> way.


Ideas? Yeah, draft a speedy guy who was a good returned in college. it seems like every year there are 3 or 4 guys like this, who can be had in the 3d, 4th, or lower rounds. We're the only team who takes them #9 overall---and then, we got a guy who wasn't even that great at it.

You may get a better average running straight ahead, but only if you are OK with 24 yard returns each time. I'd rather have a guy who can break a long one now and again. Carroll cannot.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HARTLINE??????????? Use the "search" function on
> Hartline and limit your searches to "ChyrenB."
> You will find that I heartily disagree that
> Hartline would be better. Ginn would do what guys
> did in my high school and on the intramurals
> fields at Purdue. He would catch the ball, look
> at it in his hands and drop it. He has some kind
> of psychological problem with it.
>
> Hartline, on the other hand, let's the ball bounce
> off of his wide-open PALM. He never clutches the
> ball. I have NO RESPECT for his ability to catch
> the ball and I would pick Ginn over him ANY DAY!
>
> As I said, Hartline is on IR and that's the best
> place for him for my money.


I'm sure most on the board (myself included) would rather have Hartline over Ginn but your entitled to your opinion Chyren.

Jacoby Ford is the guy I liked last year and I wish we would of taken him.

I'm going to give you the stats for 2 kick returners in 2010. I'm not going to tell you who they are, but you can tell me which one you would rather have:

One KR has 22 returns for 558 total yards (25.4 average). He has a long return of 46 yards and 17 returns of over 20 yards (77%)

The other KR has 39 returns for 849 total yards (21.8 average). He has a long return of 61 yards and 21 returns of over 20 yards (53%)

Neither of them have a kick return for a touchdown in 2010.

Which is which?

The first one is Nolan Carroll, and the second is Ted Ginn. Carroll is doing just fine as a returner, and he appears to be getting better.

The reason that Ginn is no longer here is because he is too soft. He runs out of bounds at the first chance he gets. Last year, the week after his great Jets' game, he was pathetic. He ducked out of bounds on every return. It was hard to believe it was the same guy. He would catch passes and dive to the ground before getting hit. He could not catch any pass that was contested. His total lack of physicality is why this regime dumped him.

Ive have watched many niner games this year and Ginn runs out of bounds "every time" on the return. He does not fight for the ball as a receiver and cant catch the damn thing anyway ! We don't need that kind of player. Though I did love his performance against the Jets that one time ! ...... 2 TD's........

IMHO it was because he was not what the coach that drafted him said he was. Ginn is not a real football player.

He does have certain skills, no denying that, but I think the logic in releasing him was that he avoided contact to the detriment of the ball club.

He is not a real football player and is sometimes painful to watch, although I agree he is sometimes very exciting to watch.

IMHO we just could not accept him not being a real football player.