Also it goes without saying that we need a new OC also.

Good post and thanks.
I'm with you on this off season. Takes a complete team to compete for a SB anyway. Also, the more good players we have the better chance we have to move up in the draft thru trade. That is what NE has been doing so no reason it can't work for us.

We need to build a complete team that will last so we can compete every year.

I'm still waiting for those who were Brady Quinn guys a few years ago. You know that he is available. Where are you now?

I was never a Brady Quinn guy (I was actually one of the morons who defended the Ted Ginn selection), but he really should have been the choice. Even if he didn't work out, the team desperately needed to draft a QB and I still think he would have been a MUCH better choice than John Beck and Ted "Stone Hands" Ginn Jr.

For comparison purposes, here are Chad Henne's career stats compared with Brady Quinn's:

Henne: 514/848 (60.6%), 5,621yds, 6.6avg, 25td, 29int, 75.8 rating. Sacked 48 times for a loss of 309 yards.

Quinn: 184/353 (52.1%), 1,902yds, 5.4avg, 10td, 9int, 66.8 rating. Sacked 20 times for a loss of 113 yards.


In none of his three seasons with Cleveland did he go in as the starting QB, and at no point did he have anything resembling offensive talent around him. Look at Cleveland. Now imagine Cleveland without Peyton Hillis. If we accept the argument that Henne is being held back by his supporting cast and coaching, can you then conclude that Quinn sucks?

Is Quinn a good QB? Probably not. But I'm pretty sure he's better than John Beck and Ted Ginn. On the flip side, the selection of Ginn/Beck was instrumental in Camspiel getting canned after one awful season, so I suppose it did work out best for us.

So do we bring Quinn in for a shot? No doubt we can get him cheap.

I say you bring in any one of those guys if you can get them for next to nothing, V Young, Quinn, Lienart etc. Maybe the lite bulb clicks and we catch lightning in a bottle, or maybe we give him some weapons and it clicks with Henne.

Oh, I'm certainly not advocating that we bring in Quinn. As I have said before, I would rather see what Henne can do with different coaches than bring in Quinn.

If Vince Young is available, I would definitely be in favor of getting him. Unfortunately, I think Jeff Fisher will be fired rather than VY let go in Tennessee.

VY is immature by all accounts and "not a leader," but he has great athletic ability, has shown he can play the position, and I think he could be an excellent QB if he grows up a little bit.

I did not see your original post on this topic Phinsfan, very good work and informative. Looking at the names on my list it doesn't seem like a 50% succes rate for 1st rndrs, but i'll take your word for it. It also seems like the good ones come in bunches, when you have one "hit" in the 1st rnd, you usually have at least one more "hit" in that same 1st rnd.

Perhaps and consider:

The NFL is more QB-centric now than ever.

This regime can longer afford to treat the QB position like its a 2nd or 3rd class priority.

To be a legit team in the NFL you MUST HAVE a really good QB.

Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Manning, Manning, Ryan, Flacco, Vick and
the list goes on and on.

You know. Teams that are legit playoff contenders and such. They have pretty good QB play. Yes?

Yet. It’s somehow our G play that’s holding is back?

Are we so special that the rules that apply to every other team in the league
don’t apply to us?

Or…

Do you believe:

Henne is good enough to win with?

He’s a legit NFL QB?

Just bring in a cast-off or lowly 7th rounder to “compete” with Henne and we’re golden?

The simple point is (forgive my twisted logic) the really good organizations in the NFL solve the QB puzzle.

Personally, I don’t care if we spend EVERY PICK in the draft on QB’s -- just go find the solution and move on.

But of course… the ONLY position in the draft that’s “risky” is the QB.
That’s a good one.

But on the other hand, there’s no sense in drafting more than one to spread risk?

Oy vay.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2010 12:19PM by BigNastyFish.

Hello. He was a 6th rounder.

And your point would be?

Of course. Brilliant.

Got it.

A simple formula obviously everyone misses.

Those NFL GM's are stupid.

Henne supporter here however........

We really should draft a QB in the 1st R this year, Locker,Mallet whoever is available.

We need another prospect to push Henne to try take the starting job from him, if he pushes Henne to perform better good, if he takes the job from Henne than good.

Nothing wrong with a little QB controversy to try and make the team better.
We can't just sit around crossing our fingers and hope Henne just magically turns into an elite QB, we need a backup plan and Thigpen is not the answer.

The rest of the picks should go to beefing up the o line, I think the receiver position looks good with Bess,Marshall,Hartline,Fasano and co, and Ricky and Ronnie IMO could go another year before we draft a new RB.

...an excellent response IMO Phinsfan2.

I think a tad less about Henne but otherwise I dig your sound logic and insight.

This regime can longer afford to treat the QB
> position like its a 2nd or 3rd class priority.


I agree again. Parcells was always of the opinion that you don't need a stud QB that you need a caretaker.

I hope Ireland hasn't bought into that philosophy.


> Personally, I don’t care if we spend EVERY PICK
> in the draft on QB’s -- just go find the
> solution and move on.

Agreed. The ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl. You don't do that without investing in the QB position. Might as well get that out of the way first.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't agree more!! Thanks Guys, you took the words right out! As far as waiting for Henne to get it together 4-5 years, that's just putting the rest of the team on freeze just hoping that this guy figures it out. Bring him competition, draft a QB in the 1st round and watch how quickly he'll either improve or completely fold. But if you bring another 3,4,5th rounder hoping he's another Brady, then that's just wishing, they need to go make it happen at that position instead of tap dancing around it.

Phinsfan,
"Agreed. The ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl. You don't do that without investing in the QB position. Might as well get that out of the way first."

That argument could have been made a couple years ago and was made by many on this board.
The problem I see now is that even if we do go 6-10 we won't be drafting high enough to get that "elite" QB everyone wants. For that reason we should keep building the team starting with the offense and then keep drafting depth. Okay, draft a QB later and hope for the best.

Reason I say that is the following year we just might have players and draft choices to be able to move up and take that QB.

That is exactly what NE has been doing for years. That is why they always seem to have high draft choices.

Build a really legit team with depth and the draft choices should come. That is what I have meant when I say the QB position can take care of it's self. I do not mean that any QB will do.

There are several QBs out there that could have gotten us to the playoffs this year. Henne is obviously not getting the job done but an average QB could have.

Of coarse there were some games that would have been lost anyway, such as the NE lousy SP destruction.

Of coarse if the real deal QB is there when we draft then I think the regime will go for it and they should. But I don't see it happening this time.

Now, I have never liked Quinn, but why would we not bring him in when we can get him cheap. What would it hurt to have him compete next year. Even if we do draft that so called elite.

One more point and I'm done.

I see nothing wrong going for Josh McDanials as OC. Not sure he won't go back to NE but the guy is a good OC and does know QBs. That has been proven. Thoughts?

I will take Josh Mcdaniels right now as our OC!

You can't go wrong with ex NE coordinators, just look at the chiefs.

Besides it's hard to get much worse than where our offense is right now. Bring the young man, keep him away from Nolan, just focus on the offense baby that's it!!

Wannyblows34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will take Josh Mcdaniels right now as our OC!
>
> You can't go wrong with ex NE coordinators, just
> look at the chiefs.
>
> Besides it's hard to get much worse than where our
> offense is right now. Bring the young man, keep
> him away from Nolan, just focus on the offense
> baby that's it!!

I was wondering why I'm the only one on this site to bring this up.
I really like the idea. As far as Nolan goes, Josh would not be in charge and have nothing to do with the defense.

Worst thing that can happen to the Phins is to lose Nolan. Got to keep that man here!!!

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wannyblows34 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I will take Josh Mcdaniels right now as our OC!
> >
> > You can't go wrong with ex NE coordinators,
> just
> > look at the chiefs.
> >
> > Besides it's hard to get much worse than where
> our
> > offense is right now. Bring the young man, keep
> > him away from Nolan, just focus on the offense
> > baby that's it!!
>
>
> No thanks. that guy is a douche.
>
>
> I'd rather give the job to lee.

If you think that then you know nothing about him period.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's only one place to shop for a franchise QB.
> That's the first round. Anything else is a
> wasted pick.
>
> You've got almost a 50/50 chance of landing a
> viable franchise QB in the first round. After
> that its like buying a Lotto ticket.

RESPONSE: Do you really think that is what we ought to be doing this year or are you saying that since it is nearly impossible for us to get a first round draft choice, we had better concentrate elsewhere?

We need offensive line help, RB help, a good backup TE, and more explosiveness at WR. We have a lot issues on offense.

Marshall, Bess, and Hartline are all solid individual players. But, combined, it's a problem. You cannot continue to have 3 WR with below average speed.

We need more weapons on offense.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need offensive line help, RB help, a good
> backup TE, and more explosiveness at WR. We have a
> lot issues on offense.
>
> Marshall, Bess, and Hartline are all solid
> individual players. But, combined, it's a problem.
> You cannot continue to have 3 WR with below
> average speed.

I agree. That's why I was a proponent of trading Hartline in preseason. Unfortunately, we traded Camarillo instead. I would have rather seen us pick up a speedy WR and keep Cam as the #4.

I am not for trading Hartline at all.

He has way more upside than Cammarillo had.


Hartline is the next Ed McCafferey. I do recognize we need a true speed guy, though.

If we had a speed guy, Marshall, Hartline, and Bess.....we would be set!

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we had a speed guy, Marshall, Hartline, and
> Bess.....we would be set!

I just think Hartline has too much talent to be #4, but if we got a real speed guy the logical thing to do would be t start Marshall and that guy and play Bess in the slot. I'd rather trade Hartline to a team that already has a speed guy and needs a consistent possession WR, then keep Moore or Wallace as our #4.

I never said Hartline should be #4.

Again, I like Hartline. I think he is the next Ed McCafferey.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"