Was lurking the forums earlier, and I realized some trends that I have seen in other places.

Why do people support Henne?

Just a question to all Henne supporters, I'm very curious as to what you see in him that deserves this blind trust that you put on him, saying it's everyone BUT his fault when something goes wrong.

All I hear is:
"He is the best QB we've had since marino!" No. Pennington and Ferotte put up much better numbers than henne has. Granted they were older, but there's only so much experience can do.

"He's got a cannon arm!" ANd that's it? He can't stay consistent with his accuracy, both short and downfield and that "cannon" arm is made null because of it. He has no pocket presence and panics if he has the ball to long.

"Our WRs drop passes!" Because the ball placement is terrible. Dan fouts even pointed this out on the int yesterday, showing that the ball was thrown behind Marshall. The Int on the slant against Baltimore, the ball was thrown Way to high, while Marshall was expecting the ball in his gut. On a slant you lead the WR and try to get it around his chest, so he's the only one who can catch the pass and then run with it. It happens numerous times a game, and is why our red zone effenciency is crap.

"Our O-line this year is bad!" No, they are actually great at pass protection. They do struggle a bit when run blocking, but henne has had plenty of time to throw the ball all year, he just panics if the ball is in his hands and either throws it away or takes a sack. The past two games I guess the coaches caught this and told him to run with it, but that's hardly been effective. This is something that isn't coachable, and good qbs have never really had a problem with pocket presence.

Other than those reasons, I would love to see why people support Henne, and if I can think of no good counter-example, then I concede all my points.

People don't like to be wrong and it seems to me many on this board have invested too much in Henne to admit they were wrong. Arm strength is the single most overrated aspect in evaluating a quarterback. Henne is also very slow, fails to slide into the first down marker which tell me he lacks heart and guts. His players are not on his side, as evidenced by the receivers yelling at him yesterday. The fans are simple minded and only want to see what they want to see and spin any mistake on somebody else. These same fans were the ones who were bitching about Fiedler for years and years and he actually showed more leadership and heart than Henne.

Can't really say to much about Fiedler, But I'm not sure it's fair to compare Henne and Fiedler because they are two vastly different quarterbacks in two different situations. I'm just pointing out what's wrong with Henne, not comparing him to other qbs.

I am a Henne supporter. Thats mainly due in part to him being a MIAMI DOLPHIN.

That being said, I thought between the two (Henne and Pennington) Henne gave us the best chance to win. And he still might give us the best chance to win over Thigpen....that is still yet to be determined.

If I'm correct, Chad Henne had us winning the game yesterday when he left the game.

But just because I support the guy, doesnt mean I think he is our future QB. That is obviously still undetermined as well. He has showed flashes of great play and flashes of poorus play.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 09:12AM by Aqua&Orange.

What I mean from "Supporters" is people putting the blame on the MIAMI DOLPHINS, instead of seeing that Henne is the one major problem this year.

Despite his up and down play, people are screaming about his talent, saying that we should get rid of one of the top 5 receivers in the NFL, a very established OC in Dan Henning, A great GM, and one of the better head coaches in the NFL, all beacuse we had a mediocre record, and refused to say that the blame fell on Henne's sholders. It just puzzles me is all.

But what about the people that blame Henne for everything?

There are two sides of this road.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

BansheeGoose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was lurking the forums earlier, and I realized
> some trends that I have seen in other places.
>
> Why do people support Henne?
>

I can only speak for myself, but I'll tell you why I support(ed) him. Some or all of this is moot depending on Henne's injury status, of course.

First and foremost:
He is/(was?) our QB. I'm a homer, I support who's behind center. I know it's a lot more popular these days to bash the crap out of one's own team, second guessing every single thing the coaches and players do, but I supported Fiedler, Beck, everyone who played QB for us.


> Just a question to all Henne supporters, I'm very
> curious as to what you see in him that deserves
> this blind trust that you put on him, saying it's
> everyone BUT his fault when something goes wrong.

Actually a better case could be made for the opposite: Henne Haters blaming everything BUT what he truly does wrong on him. THat's what I've been reading here since the season started.

I don't know anyone with "blind trust". But Henne's numbers have been good and he hasn't made an extreme number of mistakes. He threw a couple INTs in the past few games, which did lower my opinion of him a little bit. But I thought he got a bad rap overall.


>
> All I hear is:
> "He is the best QB we've had since marino!" No.
> Pennington and Ferotte put up much better numbers
> than henne has. Granted they were older, but
> there's only so much experience can do.

Yet to be determined, IMO. It takes more than one or two years of perfect performance to be even mentioned in the same breath as Marino. He's certainly slower to develop than Marino, but he only has the chance to become the best since Danny if he's allowed to develop.

And it's funny that you mention 'experience'. Yanking Henne when they did stopped Henne from gaining further experience at the wheel (once again a bit of a moot situation now that both Henne and Penny are injured).

>
> "He's got a cannon arm!" ANd that's it? He can't
> stay consistent with his accuracy, both short and
> downfield and that "cannon" arm is made null
> because of it. He has no pocket presence and
> panics if he has the ball to long.
>

His accuracy is better than you're implying. He has a good completion percentage. I for one (and I do mean 'for one' because almost nobody agrees with me here) am in favor of playing it safe (dump off/checkdown, throw away etc) when he senses the pocket is collapsing. That is a LOT better than forcing throws that will become INTs.


> "Our WRs drop passes!" Because the ball placement
> is terrible.

You just contradicted yourself, IMO. IF a WR drops a pass, that means it hit him in the hands. What's a better place to throw the ball than hitting the receiver in BOTH HANDS? ChyrenB has made this point in his posts a lot better than I, litigator that he is No he's not placing the ball in the perfect place. A good example was the bomb to Hartline. If it would have been perfectly placed, he'd have caught it and stride and found the EZ. But instead he had to make an adjustment in order to catch it. But at least he caught it. There have been several not-perfectly-placed-but-still-very-catchable balls thrown by Henne over the past couple years, that were dropped. He has LOTs of room for improvement in that regard. But he can't improve if he doesn't get reps on the field.



Dan fouts even pointed this out on
> the int yesterday, showing that the ball was
> thrown behind Marshall.

Fine, he sure did blow that pass...but I don't think anyone said Marshall dropped it...that'd be silly.


>
>, he
> just panics if the ball is in his hands and either
> throws it away or takes a sack.

Which once again isn't ideal but is a HELL of a lot better than chucking up a prayer. Even if it doesn't make a highlight reel.


The past two
> games I guess the coaches caught this and told him
> to run with it, but that's hardly been effective.
> This is something that isn't coachable, and good
> qbs have never really had a problem with pocket
> presence.

I think it's coachable to a degree, but best improved by getting more playing time. Not by being benched.


>
> Other than those reasons, I would love to see why
> people support Henne, and if I can think of no
> good counter-example, then I concede all my
> points.

That's the best I could do. No need to concede any points, we all make our points here. I"m glad you stopped lurking and started posting!

I don't think Henne is perfect, but I think he shows (showed) the best potential as our future starter, before his injury.

BansheeGoose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was lurking the forums earlier, and I realized
> some trends that I have seen in other places.
>
> Why do people support Henne?

RESPONSE: Because we see no evidence that in this point in his career he is a LOUSY quarterback or, like Pat White, is too small and fragile to play in the NFL. When you have drafted a quarterback, then you don't get rid of him after 3 years because he has not led you to the SuperBowl. The test is the opposite, you stick with him until he has demonstrated that he can't play in this league. In all the other prior losses, as we have argued, you could blame the other parts of the team for our non-performance and you could blame THE OTHER PARTS of team AND HIM AS PART OF THE TEAM for not overcoming those deficits and winning.


>
> Just a question to all Henne supporters, I'm very
> curious as to what you see in him that deserves
> this blind trust that you put on him, saying it's
> everyone BUT his fault when something goes wrong.
>
> All I hear is:
> "He is the best QB we've had since marino!"

RESPONSE: I don't remember anybody saying that. The info on this site goes back for years. Do me a favor and copy and paste someone saying that.

People might have said that in this point in their careers certain QBs were doing no better but nobody that I can remember said that.

Although, Pennington probably beats out Jay Fiedler for the best QB since Dan so that's not saying too much in the first place.


> Pennington and Ferotte put up much better numbers
> than henne has. Granted they were older, but
> there's only so much experience can do.
>
> "He's got a cannon arm!" ANd that's it? He can't
> stay consistent with his accuracy, both short and
> downfield and that "cannon" arm is made null
> because of it.

RESPONSE: Now you are dead wrong. There have been no complaInts about his accuracy. Accuracy means that the ball is not coming close to the target. The complaints are that he throws the ball too hard that the receivers can't catch it and it bounces off of their hands and that he lacks "touch."

The pass that got him benched (some would say) was that endzone pass to Fasano that bounced off Fasano's hands. The complaint was that he didn't throw a soft touch loop, not that he underthrew the ball or threw it out of bounds or too far to one side or the other.

Even the detractors on this board like Mia1 and WeLead have never accused him of flat out missing the receivers.


He has no pocket presence and
> panics if he has the ball to long.

RESPONSE: If this were true, he would have a high number of sacks but he does not. He usually throws the ball out of bounds.

I don't know how long you have been a Dolphin fan but if you remember when Pennington was comfortably in charge of this offense, sacks were a regular occurrence with him.

>
> "Our WRs drop passes!" Because the ball placement
> is terrible.

RESPONSE: Right in the hands?????????

Dan fouts even pointed this out on
> the int yesterday, showing that the ball was
> thrown behind Marshall. The Int on the slant
> against Baltimore, the ball was thrown Way to
> high, while Marshall was expecting the ball in his
> gut. On a slant you lead the WR and try to get it
> around his chest, so he's the only one who can
> catch the pass and then run with it.

RESPONSE: Maybe, I'm mixing up my plays but I know one he was criticized for was not an interception but a missed reception but when they replayed it, they showed that had he thrown it on the opposite side of the receiver there was another defender they had not seen who had a better chance at a pick.

What a replay showed and what
It happens
> numerous times a game, and is why our red zone
> effenciency is crap.

RESPONSE: Here, you are dead wrong. What kills our red zone efficiency is that the minute we get into it, they usually run the wildcat one or twice until it is 3rd down and it is then left to Henne to bail us out with a pass, which then is incomplete and we have to kick a field goal.

If we are in rhythmn running Ricky and Ronnie, then the OC stops it and mixes in the wild cat or a pass on first down. If, on the other hand, Henne has gotten hot and passed us down from our 20 to their 20, the OC then puts in the wildcat and stops the rhythmn. That's your problem with not making touchdowns in the red zone.

>
> "Our O-line this year is bad!" No, they are
> actually great at pass protection. They do
> struggle a bit when run blocking, but henne has
> had plenty of time to throw the ball all year, he
> just panics if the ball is in his hands and either
> throws it away or takes a sack.

RESPONSE: Respond to my point that the coverage is so great on the receivers and when a receiver is open, they can't catch his hot balls.

I swear when Henne leaves this team and is a star in this league, as was Marino who threw and even hotter ball but who had great receivers, people like you will only say, "He must not have liked us because he never did that for us."

You refuse to recognize that Brandon Marshall is really the only decent receiver we have. Hartline stepped up yesterday, even before Henne got hurt but quite frankly, you can't blame a quarterback for dropped balls.

The past two
> games I guess the coaches caught this and told him
> to run with it, but that's hardly been effective.

RESPONSE: I said on this board that my only criticism of him was that once he realizes that the receivers are covered, he should simply tuck it and run it.

Why did it take so long for these coaches in whom you seem to have so much faith to realize that also?

> This is something that isn't coachable,


RESPONSE: You're contradicting yourself. You said the coaches caught and correct it but then you say it isn't coachable.

Don't you mean that it should not have to be coached?

Just trying to make sense of your thoughts when one puts them together.

and good
> qbs have never really had a problem with pocket
> presence.
>
> Other than those reasons, I would love to see why
> people support Henne, and if I can think of no
> good counter-example, then I concede all my
> points.


RESPONSE: See above.

I have seen much less of that though.

While we had a special teams meltdown against the Patriots, that didn't excuse his poor play that game. That's the only loss where I can't put the blame on him alone.

Our running game is struggling this year beacause the O-line is young and banged up, while teams are loading up the box because Henne doesn't scare anyone.

We definately have other problems: At guard(injuries), Second Corner/Nickelback, and our front seben have had some injuries, but they are very minor problems, while I beleive QB has been the biggest problem this season.

Pennington plays and stays healty for a while, we're easily 7-2, maybe even 8-1. While I beleive we'd be around the same record if Thigpen had played, there wouldn't be nearly as many concerns about our AB position, because Thigpen actually shows promise, not averageness.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BansheeGoose Wrote:
> ---------------------


> > "Our WRs drop passes!" Because the ball
> placement
> > is terrible.
>
> RESPONSE: Right in the hands?????????
>
>

See? There's the counselor! It's like his ears were burning when I mentioned him in my post just a minute or two before

I support Henne because he is the Dolphins QB. He was the one selected by the coaching staff who sees him every day. They know what to look for when breaking down film and feel that he gives them the best chance to win.

It's easy to sit at home, not knowing a fraction of what REAL football people know, and talk about what YOU think they should have done in hindsight.

It's easy to say what you would have done when it's not your ass on the hot-seat.

I also support Henne because when I do take the time to really look at his play, I see him making decisions based on the plays that are being run.

And those plays F-CKING SUCK!

Riddle me this: If you're an OC and you send 2 WR's on 10 yard out routes and 1 TE on an inside drag and the defense drops 5 or 6 into coverage, do some math and tell me how many guys are on each of our receivers?

Now tell me why you're requiring a young, developing QB to make throws into double and sometimes triple coverage.

Now tell me why the fans think it's Henne's fault?

It's not black and white, people. There's a lot going on here. Henne is developing, and he IS going to make mistakes. We don't have great receivers. Our OC is old-school, overly conservative, and has an aging mind. Our running game is poor. The interior of our OLine is poor.

And that's just on offense.

I don't think Henne is the next Marino. I don't know where you got that, because I don't think I've ever seen anybody say anything like that here.

What I do think is that he is a solid QB who has the work ethic, experience (see: Michigan) and physical tools to lead this team to a SuperBowl one day.

Whether it happens remains to be seen, but I'm not going to be down on him like a lot of other people here who only THINK they know about football.

I agree with Futt. How quickly we forget the list of horrible QBs we've had since Marino. Except for a healthy Fiedler, healthy Pennington, or Frerotte, I don't recall a QB I'd want more than Henne.

@JC I see a lot of what you are saying. Yeah, good QB play since Marino has been scarce, so there's a pretty short list right there, but I've heard people saying this so much, when nothing has been proven period, so it kinda irks me.

But I beleive three years is more than enough for a QB to break out of his shell. I didn't really have a problem with him last year, but he looks exactly the same and it bothers me.

On the other hand, I love conservative football, but his decisions, or lack thereof, with extended time with the ball in his hands is just bad QB play.

And his completion percentage is high because Henning runs very high-percentage routes to compensate for Henne's lack of accuracy.

Oh, what I meant by the int yesterday was just showing a bad throw, and not saying that people were complaining that it was a dropped pass. Should've specified. My bad.

But ball placement is definately key in the passing game. Top WRs like Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Roddy White all had small problems with drops because of the Qb throwing them the ball, but now look at what they do with (or did, in Fitz's case) with great qbs.

@Chyren
I wasn't talking about people specifically on this board, I was talking about arguments I have heard all over the place, as stated earlier.

Accuracy is ball placement, pure and simple. Every route has a window to where the ball should be thrown, dictated by the coverage, and he routinely misses these windows. And what about that pass to Lou Polite on 3rd and two last game? Boy, that sure was right on target wasn't it.

Yeah I guess I did contradict myself with the "panics in the pocket" saying it was uncoachable, but what I was trying to get across was that he still isn't making any decisions out on the field, following the coaches words to the mark.

And we really didn't even run the wildcat till this last game. I felt we used it in the redzone to take Henne off of the field to give us the best chance to score.

Last year Henne certainly wasn't the worst problem. That was The Defense and Paul P, along with average WR play from our number one.

More points to be made, but I don't fell like making a 3 page long post -_-.

And gracias JC, I might stick around here, as people here are much more intelligent that other places I have been....

They where untill you met me!!

Something became clear to me while watching the game and yes I am a Henne supporter, but I think that the OC has had an awful effect on Henne. THis year we have not run the ball well. Henning likes to run on 1st and second down. We have been unsuccessful this year on running on 1st and second downs and that has hurt the QB. When we threw yesterday on 1st downs no matter who threw we were successful, when we had to throw on third down that success went way down, because the defense, plays the pass, putting more players in the secondary, lineman jumping clogging pass lanes,etc making it much more difficult for a completion.
The problem with our offense is the lack of success running the ball on 1st. We need to throw on 1st downs. Henne played pretty well yesterday, and so did Thigpen, but if you have to ask me, who played better yesterday, by the numbers it was obviously Henne. I promise you guys that if Henning has the same run on 1st and 2nd down philosophy with Thigpen on Thursday, we will lose and it will not be Thigpens fault!

How about the checkdown to Lou Polite by Henne when he came in cold off the bench for the 3rd and 8 conversion? That was right after a money throw to Fasano. If we didn't get a TD that drive, our redzone struggles would have continued.

@BansheeGoose be glad you aren't on other boards as I usually am. The very mention of Henne not being the Franchise can get you flamed for days! Things look a little more civil here. And I agree with you Henne isn't terrible he's just not getting any better and IMO IS NOT the answer for this team. The old guys will understand this equation:

Chad Henne = David Woodley

BansheeGoose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But I beleive three years is more than enough for
> a QB to break out of his shell. I didn't really
> have a problem with him last year, but he looks
> exactly the same and it bothers me.
>

Yeah three years is a good barometer, but surely you aren't counting this as his third year? He had all of 12 attempts in his first year. I think it needs to be 3 years as the starter, which granted is a LONG time to invest in a QB. It's a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately world, but we also need to balance that with some sticking to our guns.

I agree that he hasn't shown much improvement and would have been in favor of this year being his final chance as a starter. We'll have a patchwork roster for the remainder of the year then REALLY need to draft smart and shop for free agents in the off season.


> On the other hand, I love conservative football,
> but his decisions, or lack thereof, with extended
> time with the ball in his hands is just bad QB
> play.
>
> And his completion percentage is high because
> Henning runs very high-percentage routes to
> compensate for Henne's lack of accuracy.
>

But high-percentage routes--that's conservative football!!!


>
> And gracias JC, I might stick around here, as
> people here are much more intelligent that other
> places I have been....

Thanks, do stick around.

ChambersDeepBall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about the checkdown to Lou Polite by Henne
> when he came in cold off the bench for the 3rd and
> 8 conversion? That was right after a money throw
> to Fasano. If we didn't get a TD that drive, our
> redzone struggles would have continued.


Yep that was a big 3rd down conversion. But that was a bad position to put Henne in and not a high percentage conversion. The next drive, as soon as we ran on 1st and as second down, We went three and out.

I can’t figure out the support either, especially the way a number of people here act like they have a vested interest in Henne, and seem (???) to put that above the team.

In addition, the crap about “hating” is just juvenile. It’s simply about production on the field and getting the job done. I wish (I REALLY REALLY DO) Henne was the answer and played like he did last year in beating the Jets at home. But that game has proved to be a fluke because he’s been nothing but inconsistent since.

Henne had the 9th best completion percentage in the league, and that's in spite of a lot of dropped passes.

If you watched Henne play at Michigan, and have seen his growth since then, you would understand why it's easy to be optimistic about him.

Gus Frerotte completed 52% of his passes in Miami, for 2900 yards. Henne was completing 64% of his passes, and on pace for almost 4000 yards. Henne's numbers blow Frerotte's away.

Dan Henning's playcalling as been atrocious and ultra conservative. He has not done Henne any favors.

We have a serious lack of speed on offense. Hartline runs a 4.55. He is faster than Marshall, who runs a 4.6. And he is faster than Bess, who runs a 4.7. When you can't stretch the defense, it makes it much more difficult on the QB.

You listen to Dan Fouts? You mean, the same Dan Fouts who said that in his opinion, Davone Bess would gain the most benefits from playing with Randy Moss?

Our pass blocking is great? Please. Vernon Carey has allowed 17 QB pressures. Pat McQuistan, Richie Incognito, John Jerry, and Joe Berger have combined to allow 29 QB pressures. That is way too much pressure being allowed up the middle. Pressure from the edges is one thing. A QB can deal with that. Pressure up the middle? That's another story.

Take an honest look at our offense. Are we set on the offensive line? No, we need help in the interior of the line, probably multiple players. Are we set at TE? No. Fasano is an excellent blocker, and can be effective in the passing game. But, we don't have a single catch from another TE. And, the other TE on the roster are both udnrafted rookies who were cut by other teams. Are we set at RB? No. Both backs look to have lost a step. We are 21st in the NFL in rushing. Are we set at WR? No. We have no deep threat. And this is a major, major issue. It allows the safeties to play closer to the line, which hinders the running game and hurts Marshall and Bess. Our offense still has a ways to go in terms of personnel.

You shouldnt post stats.

People like dolfan1, welead, mia1, and plenty others dont want to see those around these parts.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You shouldnt post stats.
>
> People like dolfan1, welead, mia1, and plenty
> others dont want to see those around these parts.


Its ok Aqua get your kicks go ahead, I reported your abusive post, and gave referance to other abusive post you type that show no merrit.


So go ahead think you look cool keep up the insulting post!

I SUPPORTED henne because i saw raw talent at first. I think he has unfortunately become a product of hennings offense and the coachings pressure on him not making a mistake. this has brainwashed him into thinking he should play it safe on every down and it hasnt worked out. I hear Michael Irvin talk about the delicate balance between a qb and the system hes in and how a great athlete wont succeed if hes in the wrong system and I think this is hennes case. he is , unfortunately in the wrong system. he has the talent but we wont use it. Thigpen on the other hand has nothing to loose and will go balls out. its a double edge sword but ill take it.

Quote:

"Its ok Aqua get your kicks go ahead, I reported your abusive post, and gave referance to other abusive post you type that show no merrit.


So go ahead think you look cool keep up the insulting post!"


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Please tell me how that is insulting??? That is telling the FACTS.

Stop acting like a little baby and fess up. Man up. You can't straddle both sides of the fence.

You are so quick to rant and rave, to the point that it is annoying, then when you are wrong and people point it out.....you report them. ARE YOU SERIOUS!?

That is childish. Grow up. Pick your big boy pants up off the floor and pull them up.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I can see you right now behind your computer screen.

Arms crossed, head down, with your bottom lip stuck out. Then your family asks you "whats wrong?" You say "Aqua&Orange and Ghotirule are calling me names. I dont like them at all and I am not inviting them to my birthday party!"


Come on, Mia1. You need to lighten up. Your going to have a heart attack. This is just a chat board.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

A&O: You're the one who needs to present a decent argument or opinion other than calling people "trolls" or "please die." Can I ask you a question? How old are you?