I Think Heene could be a good QB, I think to much is put on him with some of the play calling so every drive has a must complete factor on it. We have not run the ball well, we end up third and long all the time, then we get inside the 20 and we call dumb plays that put him in a 3rd and long in the red zone, and completing a pass for a first down or TD become much more difficult with the short field and he is always under the gun to get it done. Is he a good QB at this time? NO but I think if some things change he could be good enough. I like this benching right now, give him a chance to see things from another side just hope this does not break him. I am not saying he will be great, but he could be good enough under the right situation...

> But what if we don’t have a legit franchise QB on the roster? And what if Henne is nothing more that what he’s shown? And Thigpen is a nice athlete but not legit starting material?

> What do we really have then? And how do we just “move on” from here?

The Dolphins keep at the job at hand, trying to find a QB that is capable of leading the team to a SB win. You’ve acknowledged that it’s an incredibly arduous task, give them time. This knee jerk shit you’re advocating may get a good front office tossed. You’re stirring up some real big nasty here.

Look, if Cleveland had waited for Bill to find a QB, maybe what’s happening in NE could have been happening with the Browns. The Steelers waited on Cowher to finally find a QB. Dungy even eventually got one. And it’s still possible, with a really good team, to win a SB without the traditional “franchise” QB. The QB just has to be playing at a high level. Like Hostetler, Or Dilfer, or Brad Johnson types.

It’s their third year, and the Dolphins are pretty good. If they can keep Pennington healthy, and figure out a way to pull people off Marshall, they could be difficult to deal with.

> what are the consequences to this regime for the "situation" we're in? We can keep Henne around and cross our fingers he'll eventually develop, but we need a more competent staff that can identify QB talent and draft accordingly.

Oh give me a break. Do you have any idea how effin hard it is to find a viable QB? Obviously not.

And the staff just agreed with you, since, they just benched Henne. Would you have rather they stayed with him?

Oh no, I get it, any staff of the Dolphins should be able to hit home runs every time out with the QB position or else face firing. Yours is a recipe for continual NFL doormat status.

Hopefully, the Dolphins will use a more sophisticated approach in determining whether this front office stays or not, starting with, and damn near ending with…their record.

I wonder what the hit rate is on first round QB's. It seems like there have been plenty of can't-miss first round QB's that were complete busts.

Taking a look at quarterbacks drafted over a 20-year period from 1985-2005, the return on first-round investments is underwhelming. NFL teams drafted 242 quarterbacks overall during that time; of those, 43 were first-round selections. The average career for a first round pick through last year (2006) was 6.5 years and 70.3 games played with a 72.9 passer rating. The average league-wide passer rating was 77.3 during that same timeframe. Only 15 of those first-round quarterbacks (34.8%) have a career passer rating better than that mark. Only four of them have led the league in passer rating; only one of them--Peyton Manning--has done it more than once. Meanwhile, 12 have retired with fewer than 30 game appearances, and 11 have retired after five seasons or less.

The 1990s was not the decade to pick a first-rounder, as the average passer rating among that group is 68.4, thanks to some spectacular flops including Todd Marinovich, Ryan Leaf, and Jim Druckenmiller. Out of the 20 quarterbacks selected in the first round during the 90s, only four entered the 2007 season as active players with career ratings over 80: Peyton Manning (94.4), Daunte Culpepper (90.8), Donovan McNabb (85.2), and Steve McNair (83.2). In contrast, nine of those 20 quarterbacks retired after playing in fewer than 35 games, with an average passer rating of 55.7 among them.

Aside from underscoring the point that success is difficult to come by in the National Football League, it leads the layman to wonder how collegiate quarterbacks get evaluated, much less developed. Overall, teams seem much more likely to miss than hit. The 20-year crop of quarterbacks selected between 1985 and 2005 will ultimately produce at least four Hall of Fame quarterbacks (Aikman, Brady, Favre, Manning) out of 242 picks, which is impressive. It's also produced an average quarterback profile of 5.7 years, 39.0 games played, and a 55.9 passer rating. Nearly a third (32.6%) of all quarterbacks drafted in this timeframe have retired with career numbers that fall short in all three categories. That includes six first-rounders, which magnifies their failures--as well as the time wasted upon them by their respective teams.

Teams--and fans--expect an immediate, positive impact coming out of training camp, or they expect little or nothing at all. Those extremes are reflected every year in the draft. Maybe the rookie classes of 2006, 2007, or 2008 will reverse the trend, but the draft will continue to be a quarterback crapshoot.

jm pressley

> Yo seadevil you MAKE MY POINT:

> Do you have any idea how effin hard it is to find a viable QB?

> It seems you're an ADD poster child who doesn't even bother to read and COMPREHEND what you're commenting about. Now put down the keyboard and back away from the computer.

How did I “make” your point?

Yes, it’s difficult to find a viable QB, just like it’s difficult to find a viable GM and HC. You argue that because the Dolphins didn’t pick Matt Ryan, their FO is incompetent. I disagree.

The Dolphins have a pretty good front office and a pretty good coach too. Yes, they make mistakes, just like you & I, but they’re still good professionals. They need to find a QB capable of winning the SB (like most every team in the history of the NFL). They probably haven’t found him yet, but, however, they are still doing an adequate job so far.

You advocate for the Dolphins to childishly gamble that there’s some miraculous all seeing talent evaluating guru GM out there, and then Miami would have to go out and, again, find a capable HC too, a HC to replace the capable HC that they would have just fired. And then the Dolphins would still have to go out and find the QB.


> The point above is EXACTLY WHY we shouldn’t have passed on Ryan, and beyond that, draft only Pat White (Pat freaken White???) as a “hedge” against the gamble this regime made with Henne!

> It because the position is so difficult and hard to fill you have to keep loading the gun with legit prospects as opposed to WASTING a 2nd round pick and all that time and energy developing Pat freaken midget White. Can you comprehend that?

“Midget?” Really?

Matt Ryan wasn’t a sure thing; you act as if he were, as if you knew all along that Ryan would be better than Jake Long, or Chad Henne.

Yet, here you are, arguing to fire the Dolphins front office, because, they passed on a QB. Damned be their record, for you, it’s all about missing on Ryan.

They passed on Colt McCoy. Why not fire them for that too?

You seem to believe that whatever front office comes in, if they’re good, they should have no problem securing a SB winning QB. It’s a ludicrous position for you to take, because most executives/coaches, even good ones, miss on players.

Cowher missed on QBs, you must not want him, Dungy too, Gruden too. Who’re you gonna push for the Dolphins to hire? Tell me, give me a name, any FO personnel available, or Head Coaching prospect available, and I’ll point out their QB failures so you can remove them from your list.

Don Shula missed on QBs. Isn’t that interesting? Know what Bill Walsh missed at Stanford his second go round? Oh, a QB. According to you, Walsh must’ve been incompetent. Too bad he didn’t have you around to offer the dilettante’s perspective.


> Now you may have whatever vested interest to defend that fundamental FAILURE but the smart money is elsewhere IMO.


You? Smart money? Lol. Tell me BigNasty, what should the Dolphins be looking for in a QB? He should be able to read defenses eventually, right? Tell me, in most zone defenses, defenders are responsible for how many areas on the field? When a QB walks up to the line of scrimmage, what’s the first and most important thing he must read?

Speaking of fundamentals, when a QB throws a football in a game, what should the non throwing arm be doing?


My vested interest is in seeing the Dolphins win the SB, multiple times if possible. Your interest, it seems, is to oppose the current staff. Curious, as Miami currently has a winning record.

Who knows, maybe you have a bias against Jeff Ireland.

Glad to see you are using the "quote" function, SeaDevil.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad to see you are using the "quote" function,
> SeaDevil.


I try. Thanks btw.

38 year Dolfan but new to this board. Truth is ALL high draft picks are a crapshoot. I’d rather flip the coin going after a QB that touches the ball every play and runs the offense (or at least he should), than after another dang lineman or defensive back! I don’t see how drafting a QB with enough promise to be a top pick can be any worse than trying out another journeyman or ‘Project’ from the lower rounds. 10 years of that has gained us NOTHING and has likely wasted the prime of Ronnies carrear and the end Ricky Williams’.

Luck will go to the Patriots, as they are loaded with drafts and they are just "lucky"

I don't see how hard it is to draft a legit QB in the first round.

Reason why is you get up to 4 years of game tape from college, you also get to see what type of system you run. and how that QB fits it.


I mean you would look at how well he played in a system simular to what you wana run.

Then take how you reacts to audibles, his accuracy, smarts at dissecting plays.

I mean I understand other positions, but the QB is a very simple position to judge, if the guy can disect plays. know coverage schemes, throw a pretty ball, understands pockett awareness, and knows how to keep the play alive or throw it away, and throws a pretty catchable balls.

I don't know I mean 4 years of tape, and talkin with the kid giving him some sort of test, and well ?

Once again seadevil I don’t think you even read before you go into the “smoke screen support the regime PROPAGANDA.”

This regime has drafted 2 (count them, TWO) QB’s in their tenure. One is Henne, the other is Pat White. Now you can use your imaginary powers and pretend Pat White was a legit NFL QB prospect but I think most would see him a nothing but a WildCat experiment gone awry.

That’s one (1) NFL prospect at QB in 3 drafts by my count – and quite simply that was a HUGE MISTAKE all by itself, let alone passing on the talent of Ryan.

BTW, your point about Ryan is pure SMOKE (i.e., Ryan unproven coming out in the draft) because there’s some degree of speculation on EVERY player drafted, including dudes like Jake Long. It’s the way a team (specifically the FO) plays those “odds” and hedges their bets (not gambling TOO MUCH on one player as they have done with Henne) that reveals their relative >>> competency <<< in getting the job done.

Now what do you care more about – your underwhelming opinions or the future of this franchise?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2010 12:42PM by BigNastyFish.

I think that our top priority next year should be running back. But I said that last year.

Sorry but Drafting a Qb before you have a left tackle to protect him is not such a good idea! Passing on Ryan was not a mistake. Had we drafyed him, he would have gotten murdered with out a left tackle to protect his blindside. You build from the trenches and then fill in the skill players. Thats is almost law in the NFL.

I think pronouncing Henne a bust is premature. Right now he is young and has a lot to learn. After another full season as a starter then you can make the case. Some guys have bust all over them Alex Smith, Russell and so on but some guys take time. Knee jerk reactions from the fans is exactly why none of us work for an NFL team. Having said that I still believe they shoudl draft a QB all the time. The more you draft the greater your chances.

As far as the Jake Long vs Ryan pick that is simply a no brainer. I would take Long any day of the week. If you see Long play and just watch him the guy is the real deal he simply dominates 90% of the time. You can have the greatest QB on the planet if your left tackle stinks he will spent most of his time on his back.

Years ago Leon said it starts with the O-Line and he was 100% right. If your line is dominant then you have the recipe for some very good offense of football.

> Once again seadevil I don’t think you even read before you go into the “smoke screen support the regime PROPAGANDA.”

And once again, you think wrong. Same old, same old.


> This regime has drafted 2 (count them, TWO) QB’s in their tenure. One is Henne, the other is Pat White. Now you can use your imaginary powers and pretend Pat White was a legit NFL QB prospect but I think most would see him a nothing but a WildCat experiment gone awry.

> That’s one (1) NFL prospect at QB in 3 drafts by my count – and quite simply that was a HUGE MISTAKE all by itself, let alone passing on the talent of Ryan.

Maybe, but neither so-called mistakes, if they were mistakes, are fireable offenses, which is what you were arguing for earlier.


> BTW, your point about Ryan is pure SMOKE (i.e., Ryan unproven coming out in the draft) because there’s some degree of speculation on EVERY player drafted, including dudes like Jake Long. It’s the way a team (specifically the FO) plays those “odds” and hedges their bets (not gambling TOO MUCH on one player as they have done with Henne) that reveals their relative >>> competency <<< in getting the job done.

Yet, here the Dolphins sit, with a winning record, this far into the season, and with even their third string QB as an intriguing possibility. Not bad, all things considered.


>Now what do you care more about – your underwhelming opinions or the future of this franchise?

To maintain an opinion because it is thine, and not because it is true, is to prefer thyself above the truth -- Venning