In a 3-4 defense if you don't have high level, high energy, high skill set LB's, your defense will suffer.

And you need to keep re-stocking that position non-stop. It's like starting pitching in baseball, you never have enough. In a 3-4 defense you never have enough linebackers, and when your starting from scratch (what we are doing esentially this offseason by cutting 3 starters) it made perfect sense to invest the picks we did in a variety of different linebackers

We can keep going round and round the mulberry bush but this will be looked back on the draft where we took IN THE DRAFT, not making trades (before the deadline) but IN THE DRAFT, four linebackers.

We'll just see how that works for us next year.


I know, I'll start a poll and all you people who agree with MikeO (boy that's something else) post our projected offensive standings next year.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We can keep going round and round the mulberry
> bush but this will be looked back on the draft
> where we took IN THE DRAFT, not making trades
> (before the deadline) but IN THE DRAFT, four
> linebackers.
>
> We'll just see how that works for us next year.
>
>
> I know, I'll start a poll and all you people who
> agree with MikeO (boy that's something else) post
> our projected offensive standings next year.

Stop taking this personally. You're wrong on this issue. Just because I happen to agree with one thing Mike happens to being saying doesn't mean I'm on board with him like some kinda fan boy. I give Mike a lot of crap about other things on this board, a lot. Ask him, he'll verify. Simply put though, I'm not going to disagree with a point simply because of who made it.

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Stop taking this personally. You're wrong on this
> issue. Just because I happen to agree with one
> thing Mike happens to being saying doesn't mean
> I'm on board with him like some kinda fan boy. I
> give Mike a lot of crap about other things on this
> board, a lot. Ask him, he'll verify. Simply put
> though, I'm not going to disagree with a point
> simply because of who made it.

The way I see it is this.

You can talk about the Dolphins being 7-9 but it is clear to me that there were huge variations in quality at different positions. In order, I would say something like this:

Playoff caliber: RB (including FB if they are healthy), Oline, Cornerback
Contention caliber: Quarterback, DE
Bad NFL team caliber: Safety, OLB, TE, DT/NT
Fit for Aunt Nancy's touch football league: WR, ILB

In the NFL there is no way to separate what you do in the draft from what you do with other off-season moves. Careers are too short and especially the amount of time you control a player is way too short.

So to me, they went out and got impact players to bring ILB and WR up to the contention status. The guys they drafted help address the OLB and DT/NT problems and make what was becoming a very old defense into a younger one.

To me the only disappointment is that they weren't able to address the safety position. I don't think TE are that important to the way they want to run the offense.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, Crowder. You will be one of the first ones
> bitching and moaning when we are unable to put any
> points on the board next season.
>
> I bet at that point, according to you, It'll all
> be Henne's fault.....even if Ricky and Ronnie are
> gone through injury.



We had one one of the best running games in entire NFl until Ronnie got hurt, after that Ricky held his own pretty well. Henne was in his first year playing, I didnt expect him to light it in on fire. We just added with out a doubt one of the best WR in the entire NFL to our team about a month ago. We lost games last year because we could not stop teams from scoring, Our defense was a major let down last year. I am behind our team and front office offseason moves. If you are going to attack the Pat White draft and not give them credit for alot of the right moves they made, then you are just being shortsighted. Our offseason offense pick up was 2 guards and a Probowl Receiver. Relax, the sky is not falling! We lost Porter and Taylor and had issues at MLB last year, we also had issues with big plays, which means the secondary blew it. So we drafted a safety and cb's as well. To me the team addressed the holes they could address. Lets give these rookies a chance!

Joemama - Great post.

Would add one comment. - Thought the safety position was not addressed in a big way directly through the draft beyond Reshad Jones ... they will be far less at risk than last year due to:

1. Also drafted a CB Nolan Caroll, who may be switched to cmpete at safety, or nickle dime pkg.

2. Several of the nondrafted FA signees

3. Better defensive team talent means less of a hole at safety:

DL (more pressure), na linebacker talent (less gaping wide open slot and backs and better run support)should lessen the holes

4. Lastly I'm not convinced we're done at safety, as the drafted safeties will mean that other vets will be released ... might find some help there.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah, Crowder. You will be one of the first
> ones
> > bitching and moaning when we are unable to put
> any
> > points on the board next season.
> >
> > I bet at that point, according to you, It'll
> all
> > be Henne's fault.....even if Ricky and Ronnie
> are
> > gone through injury.
>
>
>
> We had one one of the best running games in entire
> NFl until Ronnie got hurt, after that Ricky held
> his own pretty well. Henne was in his first year
> playing, I didnt expect him to light it in on
> fire. We just added with out a doubt one of the
> best WR in the entire NFL to our team about a
> month ago. We lost games last year because we
> could not stop teams from scoring, Our defense was
> a major let down last year. I am behind our team
> and front office offseason moves. If you are going
> to attack the Pat White draft and not give them
> credit for alot of the right moves they made, then
> you are just being shortsighted. Our offseason
> offense pick up was 2 guards and a Probowl
> Receiver. Relax, the sky is not falling! We lost
> Porter and Taylor and had issues at MLB last year,
> we also had issues with big plays, which means the
> secondary blew it. So we drafted a safety and cb's
> as well. To me the team addressed the holes they
> could address. Lets give these rookies a chance!


RESPONSE: Why are people ASSUMING Ricky and Ronnie are going to make it through the season young and healthy?

Go and ask Vegas for odds.

I look forward to a few year's worth of posts from Chyren of every minor thing that CJ Spiller does well, even if he has an overall crap NFL career.

I mean, that's the real problem, isn't it? The Dolphins had a chance to draft your binky and they passed. That doesn't make you a bad guy, in fact I guess something on the order of 90% of the NFL fans hate the choices their teams make on draft day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2010 09:25AM by joemama.

ChyrenB wrote:

I know, I'll start a poll and all you people
> who
> > agree with MikeO (boy that's something else)
> post
> > our projected offensive standings next year.
Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Stop taking this personally. You're wrong on this
> issue. Just because I happen to agree with one
> thing Mike happens to being saying doesn't mean
> I'm on board with him like some kinda fan boy. I
> give Mike a lot of crap about other things on this
> board, a lot. Ask him, he'll verify. Simply put
> though, I'm not going to disagree with a point
> simply because of who made it.


RESPONSE: This is a weird post from you on so many levels. First, just because I say above I'll start a post how does that show either I'm taking it personally or that I am calling you, Odenn, out?

I said, "all you people" who agree with him can post your opinion on the poll. Never said Odenn.

Either you are the only one agreeing with him or it may be that it is YOU who are unnecessarily taking things personally.

you can't assume every player will get hurt. That's not how you run a football team.

Anyone that reads these threads you've blown up with nonsensical arguments about how Ronnie and Ricky are the reason we need to draft a RB and how the LB position is 1 position and interprets it as me having the issues must be on drugs. I'm sorry Bob, you've completely lost my respect when it comes to football knowledge. You've taken your opinion and tried to twist it into factual situations that don't exist in reality. I'm sorry but none of what you've said in the past few days makes any sense. That being said, I don't take anything personally on the internet. I don't know you, never will, therefore I don't care what you say in response to anything I post.

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone that reads these threads you've blown up
> with nonsensical arguments about how Ronnie and
> Ricky are the reason we need to draft a RB and how
> the LB position is 1 position and interprets it as
> me having the issues must be on drugs. I'm sorry
> Bob, you've completely lost my respect when it
> comes to football knowledge. You've taken your
> opinion and tried to twist it into factual
> situations that don't exist in reality. I'm sorry
> but none of what you've said in the past few days
> makes any sense. That being said, I don't take
> anything personally on the internet. I don't know
> you, never will, therefore I don't care what you
> say in response to anything I post.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you can't assume every player will get hurt.
> That's not how you run a football team.


RESPONSE: You BETTER plan on it, assume it, prepare for it, whatever word you choose when one, Ronnie, is chronically injured and the other, Ricky is old.

Only 53 roster spots Bro. We carry 4 RB's and one FB. How many guys do you want at one position who can carry the ball?

And who's to say Lex Hilliard isn't our RB of the future. Guy was downright great at times last year. Give him time to grow!

So we depend on Lex Hilliard as our running back of the FUTURE...instead of Jahvid Best or Toby Gerhardt..............concentrate on the word FUTURE, Mikeo.

Yeah, Lex Hilliard. Why not Lex Hilliard? When called upon last year he did fine for a rookie. Maybe he pans out, maybe he doesn't. But as a 3rd string RB this year behind Ronnie and Ricky I think Lex is a great back-up to have on the team who showed promise.

If he doesn't improve this year, then next offseason and next years draft we address the RB position. Not that difficult, really!

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, Lex Hilliard. Why not Lex Hilliard? When
> called upon last year he did fine for a rookie.
> Maybe he pans out, maybe he doesn't. But as a 3rd
> string RB this year behind Ronnie and Ricky I
> think Lex is a great back-up to have on the team
> who showed promise.
>
> If he doesn't improve this year, then next
> offseason and next years draft we address the RB
> position. Not that difficult, really!

RESPONSE: Not that difficult if you don't mind spending another year OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS?

As a 7-9 team, isn't that the point?????????????? To improve to the point that you are IN THE PLAYOFFS??????

Isn't that why you DRAFT???????? To get better?????? Or do you think you draft to see if your hunch works??????????

If our running game goes south, we don't make the playoffs. AND ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS WAS A FINE DRAFT, that we could pass on Best and Gerhardt, I really don't think you guys are thinking about that.

I don't think that there was a player we picked that we could not have gotten also by making one of those picks. Of course, except, that we would have to have done without one of them.

So a team with a rookie RB has never gone to the playoffs.

OK, that makes as much sense as LB being 1 position and they are all the same

I didn't say Lex was. But should he be given the chance to show his skills before we go spend big bucks on a FA or use an early draft pick on a guy?

Being 3rd team, after the year he had, there was no reason to replace him this year.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If our running game goes south, we don't make the
> playoffs. AND ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS WAS A
> FINE DRAFT, that we could pass on Best and
> Gerhardt, I really don't think you guys are
> thinking about that.

So you are upset because we didnt draft Best and or Gerhardt and that is the reason for all your whining about our team and your reasoning for why we will not make the playoffs?
Had we drafted either on of those guys they would not have made it on the field. I am not sure what you are talking about?
Do you not agree our defense had problems last year? Do you not agree that we had a top 6 running team and were in the top 3 prior to Ronnie getting hurt and Cobbs. Do you not agree Lex Hilliard looked like a good RB last year when given a chance to carry the ball. Did Ricky not hold up all season? Look I am glad you like Best and Gerhardt but those guys were not going to determine whether or not we make the playoffs, our defense is going to be the determining factor IMO.
And dont you think with our Oline and FB, that whoever runs the ball is going to do well, just like Ronnie does, Ricky does, Cobb does and Lex does behind our stud blockers! A RB is made by his blockers and guess what we have guys that can block and open up holes! Your players would have been a wasted pick this year! And just becasue Ricky and Ronnie contracts are expiring our Oline is young and none are departing next year. WHoever we put behind our line will do great! If not then name a RB that hasn't run well behind our line.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2010 02:54PM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > So you are upset because we didnt draft Best and
> or Gerhardt and that is the reason for all your
> whining about our team and your reasoning for why
> we will not make the playoffs?

> Had we drafted either on of those guys they would
> not have made it on the field.

RESPONSE: Even if either or both of Ricky and Ronnie go down????????

I am not sure what
> you are talking about?


RESPONSE: That's what I'm talking about.

> Do you not agree our defense had problems last
> year?

RESPONSE: Yes, but imagine what they would have been if we had not, at the beginning of the year, had both Ricky and Ronnie.

And remember how we only LOST games because our poor defense, not much in the first 60 percent of the season when we had Ricky and Ronnie as a running tandem but after Ronnie went out. Then we began to LOSE because of our defense.

That is what I'm trying to ensure against again. Is that so hard to understand. I mean, this isn't Rocket science.



Do you not agree that we had a top 6 running
> team and were in the top 3 prior to Ronnie getting
> hurt and Cobbs.

RESPONSE: PRECISELY MY POINT!!!!!!!

>Do you not agree Lex Hilliard
> looked like a good RB last year when given a
> chance to carry the ball.

RESPONSE: Lex Hilliard did not keep us from losing while we still had a good passing game.

Did Ricky not hold up
> all season?

RESPONSE: Yes, but he started to show his age without Ronnie.

Look I am glad you like Best and
> Gerhardt but those guys were not going to
> determine whether or not we make the playoffs, our
> defense is going to be the determining factor IMO.

RESPONSE: My conservative instincts tell me that you try to make sure you maintain your strength rather than trying (perhaps successfully, perhaps unsuccessfully, who knows) to gamble that you can improve your weakness.


> And dont you think with our Oline and FB, that
> whoever runs the ball is going to do well, just
> like Ronnie does, Ricky does, Cobb does and Lex
> does behind our stud blockers!

RESPONSE: I don't attribute the yardage of Ronnie and Ricky to the same extent to the stud blockers. Now, don't get me wrong. Ronnie and Ricky have to thank those blockers for their yardage but put lesser backs like Cobb and Lex behind those same stud blockers and they DON'T make the same yardage. Put Gerhardt or Best and they might.

Ronnie, Ricky, Gerhardt, Best = Cream of the crop
Cobb, Lex = ordinary stiffs

A RB is made by his
> blockers and guess what we have guys that can
> block and open up holes! Your players would have
> been a wasted pick this year!

RESPONSE: I've answered this above.

And just becasue
> Ricky and Ronnie contracts are expiring our Oline
> is young and none are departing next year. WHoever
> we put behind our line will do great! If not then
> name a RB that couldnt run well behind our line.

RESPONSE: As I said, it takes a quality back to get the yardage Ricky and Ronnie can get. Yes the line is important, but you just can't put chop liver behind that line and expect the same results.

THAT IS WHERE YOU AND I HAVE OUR CENTRAL DISAGREEMENT.

But you have to understand, that's not just a minor disagreement. It controls my desire to draft a running back high. So don't just say, "Well, so we disagree on that but that still doesn't justify you wanting to draft a running back high." That's the whole point.