The sad part is that Chambers is still playing better than almost any WR we have. Hartline will get better eventually but as of right now he could use the help.

Chambers did not fit in well with the Chargers scheme. He fit in better with KC's....not to mention he was competing with Vincent Jackson for a starters spot and then Malcomb Floyd

He was also fighting an ankle injury at the beginning of the season with KC. He still averaged 16.2 yards per reception. That's about 6 more yards per reception than any WR we have except Hartline who had 16.3. Bess averaged 10.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

He fit better with KC because KC is getting killed in almost every game. And the whole 2nd half of games KC is passing every down against a soft defense or a prevent defense when the games are out of hand. And even in THAT TYPE OF SITUATION, he only averaged 4 receptions a game.

Chambers in SD, where every game mattered, he did NOTHING!! 38 receptions in 2008. Nuff said!

The fact he couldn't beat out Naanee and Floyd speaks volumns.

Chambers is no better than Hartline/Bess/Camarillo. he doesn't upgrade us in one way whatsoever. He just adds to our problem and doesnt' fix it

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact he couldn't beat out Naanee and Floyd
> speaks volumns.
>
> Chambers is no better than
> Hartline/Bess/Camarillo. he doesn't upgrade us in
> one way whatsoever. He just adds to our problem
> and doesnt' fix it

It wasn't about beating out Naanee. They were just not going to continue to pay Chambers 4.5 mil a year to be a 3rd WR. The development of Jackson and Floyd made it possible to release him...and don't kid yourself, Floyd is getting better and going to be a player.

But, in a phone conversation after he was released, Chambers (who is recently divorced) said he believes some off-field issues played into his release – specifically a relationship with a woman sources on the team believed may have had a negative impact on his performance. Chambers thinks any such determination would be unjust.

“I thought the team gave up on me a little quick – for factors that don't have to deal with football,” he said. “I guess it created a distraction upstairs. I kept my head on straight. We all go through things. I did my best to not have my personal life and football clash. They know a little too much of my life, and they used it against me.”

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eetsi, a brilliant response. not that MikeO will change his views or even acknowledge their faulty premise.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eetsi, a brilliant response. not that MikeO will
> change his views or even acknowledge their faulty
> premise.


No because I am not wrong!

you said chambers got all his stats in garbage time, eetsi proved these were all close games not blowouts

how are you "not wrong"?

just because the FINAL score is close doesn't mean the game was close. Or a late score made the game look closer than it was. You guys are wrong ont his. Not that it matters anyway. He avg 4 catches for 68 yards in KC. Nothnig special and mediocre stats. Not to mention his off the field issues make him untouchable!!

What off the field issues? He had a DUI 3 years ago.

Doesn't matter....I just proved that he didn't get his yards playing against ANY prevent defense.

68 yards a game equals out to 64 receptions and 1,088 yards. I'll take that for a second receiver any day.

If you recall, Chambers wasn't the sole solution to our problem. I also said sign Bryant and Tate.

No way is Bess or Camarillo better than Chambers. Hartline may be but guys like Cam and Bess need to be fighting to make the team not starters and leading receivers. This we can agree on.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

that may be true in theory, but that's not how the last 9 games of the KC season played out, in fact, in one of their big losses vs CLE, they blew a big lead. not that this will make any difference to you. you probably think the world is flat and no amount of proof could possibly change your mind.

The fact that the 9 games were at the end of the season confirm that he was capable of producing more. He wasn't getting the same playing time in SD and Rivers wasn't throwing to him as much. I do think 9 games is a sufficient sample to extrapolate over 16 when he is in a new system with a new QB and very little time to prepare and get in sync.

I also think his 16.9 yd/catch average (which is over the whole 16 game season without any 'projecting') is pretty respectable for someone averaging 4 catches per game. His 16.9 is better than anyone for the Saints. Better than Braylon Edwards. He is 21st in the league....with 7 guys ahead of him who only have 1 catch....In fact of the WR's who have 15 or more catches his avg is 7th best in the league....how does that suck? It doesn't.

A guy goes to a new team, with a QB with whom he has never played, averages 4 yards per catch with the 7th best avg. ( for regular WR's with 15 or more catches) and you think that sucks??? really??


You want to use those stats to say he sucks? Really? That's how you are backing up that extreme opinion?? Fine...then you better use the same criteria for every name you throw out there.

I suggested you tone down the rhetoric because you frequently overstate things...and then say "that's my opinion".


if that is your honest opinion...you don't know much about football. Now if your opinion is that he is too old, slowed down, not a #1 WR and won't help us to the extent we need?...then I can see the merit of that opinion......but say it in a way that is closer to that and not make statements like 'He sucks'.

If you guys want to start the Chris Chambers fan club go right ahead. I aint joining, he sucks.

He underachieved in Miami
He underachieved in SD
He was medicore in 9 games in KC.

History is on my side. This guy is a bad player

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that the 9 games were at the end of the
> season confirm that he was capable of producing
> more. He wasn't getting the same playing time in
> SD and Rivers wasn't throwing to him as much. I
> do think 9 games is a sufficient sample to
> extrapolate over 16 when he is in a new system
> with a new QB and very little time to prepare and
> get in sync.
>
> I also think his 16.9 yd/catch average (which is
> over the whole 16 game season without any
> 'projecting') is pretty respectable for someone
> averaging 4 catches per game. His 16.9 is better
> than anyone for the Saints. Better than Braylon
> Edwards. He is 21st in the league....with 7 guys
> ahead of him who only have 1 catch....In fact of
> the WR's who have 15 or more catches his avg is
> 7th best in the league....how does that suck? It
> doesn't.
>
> A guy goes to a new team, with a QB with whom he
> has never played, averages 4 yards per catch with
> the 7th best avg. ( for regular WR's with 15 or
> more catches) and you think that sucks???
> really??
>
>
> You want to use those stats to say he sucks?
> Really? That's how you are backing up that extreme
> opinion?? Fine...then you better use the same
> criteria for every name you throw out there.
>
> I suggested you tone down the rhetoric because you
> frequently overstate things...and then say "that's
> my opinion".
>
>
> if that is your honest opinion...you don't know
> much about football. Now if your opinion is that
> he is too old, slowed down, not a #1 WR and won't
> help us to the extent we need?...then I can see
> the merit of that opinion......but say it in a way
> that is closer to that and not make statements
> like 'He sucks'.


His 2008 season is another reason why he sucks. Try and defend those stats!

He is The 4th best all time Dolphin WR...you are demonstrating your ignorance.

How old are you? You sound about 16.

.

There are more people who think you are wrong than people who think you are right ( so far...no-one.)

You can invest time trying to protect your ego and say "am not, it's my opinion"

or you can ask yourself "why do I keep making extreme statements?" and try this one....."hmmm...maybe I was wrong?"

You say Chambers sucks. That is a huge over-statement.

Own up to it. say "yeah I guess I meant he isn't good enough to fix us" which you did later....but by that point you've spent so much time defending an undefendable position ( the he sucks one), that people are all over you for it.

People will be far more inclined to respect your opinions; even when they are contradictory, if you once in a while say "oops" or "my bad"
or "yeah...that's a good point."

try it ...you won't die.

awesome work!

I don't know if ultimately he would be signed since since I think they will go after a younger guy...but he would definately be an upgrade over most of our guys.

Braynt, Chambers, Hartline, Ginn and Bess would be a pretty impressive line-up.

yeah nobody is defending or making excuses for his 2008 season. Deflect and namecall me.

Just what I thought

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is The 4th best all time Dolphin WR...you are
> demonstrating your ignorance.
>



His stats may be the 4th best only because he played in an era of pass-happy NFL rules, but trust me he isn't the 4th best WR in Dolphins history. OK, if you think he is in a class of Warfield, Duper, Clayton...etc YOUR NUTS!

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .
>
> There are more people who think you are wrong than
> people who think you are right ( so
> far...no-one.)
>
> You can invest time trying to protect your ego and
> say "am not, it's my opinion"
>
> or you can ask yourself "why do I keep making
> extreme statements?" and try this
> one....."hmmm...maybe I was wrong?"
>
> You say Chambers sucks. That is a huge
> over-statement.
>
> Own up to it. say "yeah I guess I meant he isn't
> good enough to fix us" which you did later....but
> by that point you've spent so much time defending
> an undefendable position ( the he sucks one), that
> people are all over you for it.
>
> People will be far more inclined to respect your
> opinions; even when they are contradictory, if you
> once in a while say "oops" or "my bad"
> or "yeah...that's a good point."
>
> try it ...you won't die.


who are you and why do I care if YOU respect my opinion????? Seriously. I dont' care. I have my opinion, I know I'm right. History and stats back me up!! JUST LIKE WHEN I SAID HOW MUCH VINCE WILFORK WAS GETTING PAID WHEN FRANCHISE TAGGED, everyone here said I was wrong an my numbers were off and I had no clue as to what I was talking about, and yesterday proved I WAS RIGHT!!! But I gotta worry about if YOU and your buddies on here "respect" my opinion. I could care less cause you guys are wrong all the time!!! And now you are just TROLLING on this site and following me around from thread to thread to pick little internet message fights. We all see it though.

Like I said, lets get back to the issue. DEFEND CHAMBERS 2008 STATS!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2010 02:11AM by MikeO.

I wouldn't, but other people seem adamant about bringing him here. After researching him, I'm trying to figure out why. I'm not convinced.

Rick

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wouldn't, but other people seem adamant about
> bringing him here. After researching him, I'm
> trying to figure out why. I'm not convinced.


I don't either. It's amazing. The guy has done NOTHING in this league but underachieve in every place he has gone too.

Again..you throw some theory out there like it is a fact without fully researching to make sure it backs up your opinion.

Chris Chambers played his entire Miami career with QB's we were trying to replace. He played without Dan Marino...who lead us in the pass happiest era in Dolphins history and he managed to outproduce starters who played with Dan 'the record book for passing' Marino.

Also.....Chambers played with Ricky Williams when Ricky set the NFL record for the most carries in 2 consecutive seasons by a RB, during our Run dominating decade.

Your attempt to back up your opinion just drew attention to the fact that Chambers played in a run dominant era, with QB's that nobody else would start and we replaced, and became the 4th leading all-time Dolphin WR in MANY categories.

works for me.

1) I have been on this site longer than you...so don't say I am trolling around picking fights with you. If you go back you will find some posts in which I have agreed with you. If you make an exaggerated statement, I am going to call you on it...especially if you are slagging a former Phin who played well for us.

2) I don't need to defend his 2008 stats. Eesti has already done a very thorough job of pointing out that he was the #3 WR in a system that has a Pro-bowl TE that often leads the team in catches, and a RB that gets a lot of receptions as well.

3) Instead of focusing on 1 year in his career look at the whole picture and try arguing that he sucks. You use 1 year because it is the only thing you have.


As far as respect? I could care less. I don't know you. But This forum has had the best 'intelligent discussion' about the Dolphins on the Web, and has had it for the lats 12-15 years or so ( which is how long I have been here)....and I can assure you that some of your posts and points of view add to that! But...some of your over-stated, over simplified posts?

not so much.

So I am suggesting that your opinion would generate better discussion for all, if you adjusted your tone/choice of words.


If you were trying to say that Chambers may not be good enough to fill our real needs? I agree with you. I am CC's biggest fan...and I agree that he may not be good enough to give us what we need.

But saying "he sucks"? That's just dumb...why argue it.

Why are you here? Most of us are here to state our opinions, to change or modify them based on the opinions of other posters. You seem to be here to try to force your own opinions, regardless of how outrageous or poorly-researched they are, down our throats. If we disagree with you, we're "NUTS!". Eesti completely destroyed your assertions regarding Chambers' 2009 season, so you shift the emphasis of your argument to Chambers' 2008 season. You refuse to even consider any point that might not support your main thesis. If its not what you want to hear, you just ignore it and shift the emphasis to a minor point that you think is more defensible. So, why are you here? To learn? Your behavior doesn't say that. To try to dictate to us? Apparently so, but it's not going well for you. You raise interesting points, forcefully state a generally flawed viewpoint, but apparently don't want to hear what anybody else has to say, and give no credence to our differing viewpoints. Since that is the purpose of this site, Why are you here?

Rick

I'm not saying he is great. All I'm saying is that we could stand to bring in two or three receivers that can out perform Cam and Bess, who IMO are backups at best.

I said...Antonio Bryant and Chambers bc they require no draft compensation and then go ahead and draft a WR in the 2nd...Tate if at all possible.

Chambers is not and has never been the sole answer to our receiving woes but with the right cast around him can make us better at a reasonable cost.

He still blows away Bess and Cam with his ypr average and is still capable of an 800-1000 yard season.

2007: 970 yards
2008: started 9 out of 14 games, 462 yards & 5 TDs.

Not a great year obviously but still rivals any production we get from Bess or Camarillo. What do they get like 2 TD's in an entire year?

Chambers: (57 career TD's in 9 years, 6.3 TD avg, 14.4 career ypr)

2009: 45/730/5

Bess: (3 career TD's in 2 years, 1.5 TD avg, 10.1 career ypr)

2009: 76/758/2

Camarillo: (4 career TD's in 4 years, 1 TD avg, 11.7 career ypr)

2009:50/552/0

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Listen, I like Camarillo, and Bess, and Hartline. I think they are all hardworking, scrappy players who get a lot out of limited ability. But, we are not 1 WR away from having a good passing game. We are at least 2 WR away. Hartline is slow, Camarillo is slower, and Bess is the slowest. Take our top 4 WR: Bess, Camarillo, Ginn, and Hartline. How many of them would even make the Saints? They have Colston, Meacham, Moore, and Henderson. All 4 of them are better than anyone on our roster. Would any of our guys crack the top 3 in Minnesota over Berrian, Rice, and Harvin. No. And there are a lot of rosters in the league with at least 3 WR better than anyone on our roster. Hartline could be a decent #2 WR. That's his upside, a Kevin Walter type. Bess and Camarillo are nothing more than #4 WR. There are lots of guys around the league who would be improvements over what we have. And Chris Chambers is one of them. Is he our savior? No. Is he a true #1 WR? No. But, is he better than any WR on our roster? Yes. This is a guy with over 500 career catches and 57 career TD. And that's in spite of playing most of his career with totally inept QBs like Jay Fiedler. In his Miami career, how many times did you see Chambers wide open deep down field, and then have one of our horrid QBs not be able to get him the ball? It happened all the time. In the one year where he played with a good deep passer in Miami, with Gus Frerrote, he caught over 80 passes for over 1100 yards and 11 TD. He's a guy with good speed, and outstanding jumping ability (I believe he has the 2nd best vertical ever recorded at the combine). He's a legitimate NFL starter. That's not something any of our other WR are. And he doesn't have nearly the troubled past as Antonio Bryant. He fell out of favor in San Diego. He got hurt early in 2008, and he found himself benched. And he never got out of that doghouse. But, he got to KC, and showed he had gas left in the tank. Ask the Steelers if he had anything left.

Antonio Bryant made $9M last year. He may think he's worth close to that now. If he does, no thanks. Chambers is 32, and is not the answer to all our woes, but is a proven veteran talent. And our young guys could benefit greatly from a veteran. If he's willing to sign a reasonable deal, I'd be for it. And team him up with a guy like Golden Tate, Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, Andre Roberts, or Jeremy Williams. And then maybe our passing game moves closer to repsectability.

Frankly, I'm torn on CC. I used to love him and defend him to death, but I just couldn't take the drops. It's subjective and has been argued to death, but I subjectively thought he dropped the ball far too often when he was with us. So, I soured on him and thought we got good value in getting a #2 for him. The one time I flipped to a KC game, I saw him drop a critical pass near the end of the game when it really could have made a difference. Pretty small sample, even though I live in KC. I also think that viscous hit in the Denver game changed him from being a complete up & coming receiver to one that would not go over the middle fearlessly. I can't stand in judgment, as that hit was nasty.

However, right now he is a better receiver than Cam & Bess and arguably (in my opinion) better than Hartline. Ginn is an odd duck, and I don't think I'll even rank him. I would keep him because he has something that can't be taught and I would love to see him get free from the #2 or #3 CB and hit some long ones for us next year.

The reason I'm torn is that I personally don't want to have the Phins acquire CC and determine that their WR corps is 'set'. It's the idea of giving up better for best. I don't want to give up best just to get better.

Finally, I disagree that he would be a good veteran presence. In my opinion, he has shown immaturity at times and has not really worked hard to improve steadily over the course of his career. Frankly, he seems to have lived on God-given talent for making circus catches, but never really rounded out his game to be a complete receiver. That's not who I want setting an example for our receivers - especially Ginn, who seems to have a bit of that himself. I love how Hartline came in, learned all the WR positions and really played great for us.

In summary - if CC means no true #1, then I'm not in favor of welcoming him back just to potentially offer some marginal improvement in our passing game.