I will pose the question of why pat white was not allowed to throw the ball for an entire quarter when the safties were rolled up inside of 10 yard from the line of scrimmage daring us to throw.

Praying for the miricle I was also watching the pats texans game and they had an undrafted rookie (somebody hoyer) and he came into the game throwing the ball all over the place. After white was knocked out in came thigpen and they open the play book for him and he had zero snaps and was not with us all of preseason camp. So why was white not allowed to throw the ball even once?

Is it because white is a black athletic qb and subconsciously only viewed as a scrambler? His senior year at WV he showed the ability to pass the football and actually did not scramble nearly as much, also they have him listed as a qb. Rookie qb's come in all the time and they are allowed to pass, I just feel that if you are black and atheletic people are nervous to allow you to throw the football and even worst try to make you into a reciever. God knows that white is a better qb the russell and he is allowed to throw so what give.

The conscience decision to call option and run plays for three consecutive series (even on 3rd and long) not only costed us the game but got white injured and it is on the coaching staff. Why bring him in as a qb if he is not allowed to throw the football, i thought that is what qb's do...

I dont get it,

Anyway what is your opinion on why he was not allowed to throw the ball with rolled up safties (I counted 9 in the box!), even on third and 8 yards which is I believe the play he got injured on?

WHATEVER!!! He does not throw because the short, petite frame of his does not allow him to see over the line. HE WILL NEVER BE AN NFL QB. It has nothing to do with black or white.

clovis phinatic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WHATEVER!!! He does not throw because the short,
> petite frame of his does not allow him to see over
> the line. HE WILL NEVER BE AN NFL QB. It has
> nothing to do with black or white.


So then why list him as a qb? flutie was 6ft and he was outstanding. And if you had a guys with a petite frame would you make him pass or run? you are supporting me without even realizing it. And maybe you are right in that he will never be a nfl qb but if you want him to scramble I would think that you would start off with a deep pass to back up the safties.

No need to get your panties all in a bunch, i am just posing the question. you draft the guy in the second round not as a running back, or a wr but as a qb. So i would assume that you would call some passing play in three series with the game still in reach. So therefore I am asking the question of why you think the play calling for white was anything but a pass even on 3rd and 8? even though at the same time new england has an undrafted rookie playing the texans slinging the ball all over the field? WHite has played qb his entire life so why not let him throw the football and see what he can do?

reppa you are ridiculous. most draft experts said Pat should be a WR and he was not an NFL qb. he wanted to be a QB and the phins drafted him as a QB despite the fact that he does not have the build of an NFL QB. would you be happier if they converted him to WR against his will, or would you be saying it's another case of a racist NFL team taking an "athletic black QB" and moving him to another position.

or are you just trying to rile things up?

Thank You Berkeley223! At least you understand.

Ok, this thread forced me to register. As an Army vet, I take racism very seriously, but I also take it seriously when there is a claim of racism when there obviously was none.

I live in Germany, work as a communications contractor on a US military post. I pay about $230 a year to get every regular season NFL game online with Gamepass. I'm able to rewind, pause, replay as much as I want.

The following is Pat White's play by play of the game:

1-10: R. Williams for 4 yards
2-6: R. Williams for 1 yard
3-5: Pat White shotgun, sacked. (1st pass play)
4-14: punt
----------------------------------------------------
1-10: R. Williams for 4 yards
2-6: Pat White incomplete screen pass (2nd pass play)
3-6: Pat White drops back to pass, nobody open, chose to run, 1st down
(designed pass play, he ran. consider this 3rd pass play)
1-10: R. Williams for 2 yards
2-8: Pat White run for 6 yards
3-2: Pat White incomplete to Hartline on a 5 yard pass (4th pass play)
4-2: punt
-----------------------------------------------------
1-10: Pat White run for 1 yard.
2-9: R. Williams for 1 yard
3-8: Pat White in shotgun, heavy blitz, pretty sure that on 3-8
it was a pass play. He ran because of the blitz and got
injured on this play. But I will give you the benefit of the
doubt and we'll say this was a designed run (haha).

So, out of the 12 plays with Pat White, 4 plays were designed to be a
pass (but I think it was 5 plays). Anyhow, 4 plays out of 12 is 1/3 of
the plays. Most games with inexperienced QB's are heavy on the run.
Sometimes even great QB's have more runs than passes in games.

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW YOU BELIEVE THEY DIDN'T LET PAT WHITE PASS!!!!!!
PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHERE YOU GET RACISM FROM THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The coaching staff got caught off guards by having to play Pat White after Henne got hurt. Beleive me they now know that Pat white can't play Qb in this league, and they were waiting for the 4th quarter to put Thigpen in to save face. Pat White= wasted 2nd round draft pick. This team can't afford to make mistakes like this if they want to win the Super bowl.

Wow, im just posing the question... I made the title controversial for a bit of attention but it is not really a black white issue anymore (fortunately it is not the 70's), i put "white" in parentises since Pat's last name is white but I guess people missed that.

Anyhow I am speaking more towards the altheletic qb which in the NFL are all black for what ever reason, but more so to atheltic qb's in general. There are white QB's in this years draft which I think will lose draft value since they can scramble, for example Dan lefevour (rediculous numbers at central michigan- passing and rushing will go undrafted), Zac Robinson (Okhlahoma St.- very mobile and may make it- low end draft pick), and ofcourse our favorate Tim Tebow (all are very athletic white qb's and in my opinion loss value because they can scramble). My point is athletic qb's seem to have a knock against them because they are athletic and treated differently and often time have to switch positions. I am not a tebow fan but if he could not scramble he would be a top 5 pick, since he can scramble he is not concidered a qb but more of a full back. Last time I checked he had a season where he threw for over 3000 yards and pass for over 30 TD's- sounds like a qb prospect to me.

To clarify my point I feel that athletic qb's (irrespective of color) loose value for being able to scramble and people have less confidence in their arm since they can scramble. Say what you want switch pat white to say josh freeman and honestly tell me if the play calling would have been the same... (please keep in mind that josh freeman (bucs qb) is black- he is just not mobile)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2010 03:03PM by Miami Reppa.

There has historically been stereotyping of the QB position as not being available for Blacks.

Whether that is happening nowadays or in this particular instance is doubtable.

However, I am disturbed about the absolute savaging that people are giving the Reppa for even mentioning it.

I remember when James Harris was the sole, one and only, and he was right here in Los Angeles. Slowly over the years, Black quarterbacks have risen to respectability and shown that they could play this position as well.

However, don't act like it is an entirely ludicrous question and that this stereotyping has never happened in the history of pro football.

BobH, your comment might make sense in 1990, but not today. There are plenty of black QBs in the NFL. And even white college QBs get converted to other positions in the NFL.

But none of that has anything to do with Pat White, who the Dolphins against all reason and logic drafted him as a QB and actually played him there, despite the fact that from training camp on he could not hit the side of the barn.

I'm sure your RESPONSE will be quite insightful as always.

don't flatter yourself

Pat White is built like a receiver. At 6' 190 he is a CB/SS/FS or WR at best. He has no business in the QB slot especially in a game that is 100 times faster and more powerful than any college game he has ever played in. I am not glad he got hurt, but I am glad he realized he sucks and will ever make it anywhere as a QB in the NFL. Get rid of him, he is a burden to the team and a waste of money.

Do you really think that or are you trying to stir up some sh*t? Serously, I did not read others comments but WTF? How long has white been in the league vs thigpen? How many games have they started compared to each other in nfl? Reppa you usually have decent comments on here, but maybe on some level you have these feelings- go pound salt.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im not stereotyping in color, I am going to
> stereotype at the style of QB.
>
> Predominantly, and again I say predominantly, but
> not always, the QB position has been successfully
> played by QB's who are better passers than
> scramblers.

RESPONSE: This is true. Some of you young Dolphin fans might not know that Bob Griese, the ultimate pinpoint passer and field general quarterback was known as a scrambler at Purdue.

When he came to the Dolphins, he was carefully trained not to scramble but to become a pocket passer. The one lapse he had was in the SuperBowl against Dallas when he scrambled back for about 30 yards whereupon he was sacked.


Pat White, Vince Young, Mike Vick,
> Tyrod Taylor (whose is not in the NFL, but wont
> succeed) and most black QB's are predominantly
> SOOOOOOOOOO athletic that their scrambling
> abilities far outweigh their passing abilities.

RESPONSE: I would take Vince out of that category. I would say that he is a GREAT passer that also has a great scrambling ability. He primarily looks to pass and only scrambles when his receivers are covered and the defense is closing in. A bigger version of Fran Tarkenton.


> The bottom line is, in the NFL that to be a great
> QB you have to be a great pocket passer. McNabb,
> Steve Young, Tarkenton, Unitas were all amazing
> scramblers but were better passers. Thats why they
> succeded.

RESPONSE: True.

Interesting post Reppa and since you've been a long-time, well-informed and predominantly positive poster, I admire you for posing the question.

Since this is a Phins-first forum and you weren't trying to stir it up (in my opinion), I'm a little surprised at the animosity here.


For what it's worth I believe the African-American Pat White threw very few passes because:
1.) The coaching staff has had an NFL-season of seeing how he (inaccurately) throws passes.
2.) It was still somewhat "early" when Pat White came in, there was time to come back with a balanced offensive effort. Compared to Thigpen coming in late, down 27-10, he HAD to throw....A LOT.

NOW, we see why Thigpen was worth a 5th round draft pick and someone worthy of at least a #2 QB role next season.

A couple of things. White is short for a QB. Pittsburgh is a great blitzing team, and they were going send the house after White on every pass attempt. White would not have any chance to get off a pass in the face of that kind of blitzing. Even in a best case scenario, White will never be able to be a successful pocket passer in the NFL. It has nothing to do with his skin, just his lack of height. And they tried to give him a couple of easy throws to get his confidence going, and both throws were terrible. He was playing against a very aggressive defense, trailing in the game. He was in a badly overmatched position.

I've mentioned the following in the past on this forum, but it's worth mentioning again:

Does anyone know who was the first African American to start a football game as QB in modern era Professional football? Marlin Briscoe, as a Denver Bronco. He ended up a Miami Dolphin, and guess what position he played? After a few years as a successful receiver for the Bills (including one 1000yd+ season receiving on the same roster as OJ Simpson in his heyday), he continued with us as a WR, who could also throw.

In fact Briscoe had a 118 passing rating with 24 yard per attempt during our perfect 1972 season (you know that team right?...the one a few of you have been hating on lately?). Of course, he only threw 3 for three, but dammit that's perfect! Oh, and he was the leading TD receiver for us that same year.

Let's see....good receiving results, good passing results (albeit in frequent, but a flea flicker passer as a WR up a team's sleeve is a good thing to have) I'd say the converted position strategy worked for Briscoe, he was a valuable part of our team for a few years. Why not try it with Pat White? Would it hurt our team and his psyche so much if he were to become more versatile?

WOw, I am pleasently surprised at the change in the tone of the comments... racism is an interesting topic and exists in many areas of everyones life on all sides whether people want to acknowledge it or not (not saying that this case is or isnot im just saying).

Anyway, maybe pat white is overmatched as a pure qb, maybe not I am just saying that when henne got hurt pat white is no long the "gimmic" guy- he is "THE" guy however I feel that the play calling was still gimmicy- wildcat plays with white in shotgun, qb options, ect. That is fine if he is coming in as the X-factor like the eagles are doing with mike vick but say mcnabb goes down and vick is next up he is no longer the gimmick guy and he should be getting play calls as mcnabb would get and no longer the gimmick player. Thats is what I am saying. I dont feel that white had that opportunity, he was the "starting qb" but running primarily gimmicky plays. Once he became the starter those gimmics should have gone out of the window.

Furthermore if you wanted to move white around they should have rolled the pocket like they have dont plenty of time with henne. Anyway just my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2010 12:20PM by Miami Reppa.

The real question should be; why was White the #2 when Thigpen is sooo much better? What the heck is that about?

I do agree, no question that thigpen should have come into the game in the third. However henne and thigpen being better that white should be expected since he is a rookie so an unfair comparison. I think first to second year is like day and night. Comparing a second year to even fifth year is closer than first to second... JMHO