OK Henne is in year 2, had lots of preperation in the off-season as the eventual starter.

Last Year Thigpen was the #3 QB who ended up starting the last 11 games do to injury to the #1 & #2, he training camp prep was considerably less that Croyle and Huard.

I looked at their stats and I don't think the stats show that 1 is clearly better than the other. Thigpen has better rushing stats and better TD/INT ratio...Henne is 'greener'...Henne has a better completion rate...but we had a better ground game (KC 16th in 2008, Miami 4th 2009).

What do I take from this? We traded a 5th round pick for a guy who put up decent numbers as the #3 QB but never got a shot at competing for the starting spot because his new GM went with Cassel. IMO, if Henne's numbers warrant his consideration for starter...then Thigpen's do as well.

I think it would be foolish to anoint a starter. They need to have an open inded look at both of them.


Compare their stats:

QB GMs/Starts Compl ATT Yards TD INT RushATT yds TD RTG

Thigpen 14/ 11 230 420 2,608 18 12 62 386 3 76

Henne 14/ 13 274 451 2,878 12 14 16 32 1 75.2

oh..and for fun

Brees (yr3) 11/11 205 356 2,108 11 15 21 84 0 67.5


Makes me feel good about both of their chances.

Just like when we had Pennington and Henne, it's a nice problem to have (Henne/Thigpen). Now, what happens if Pennington comes back. Do we open it up to all 3, or do we let Pennington walk?

2008 Tony Gonzalez, 96 catches, 1058 yards, 10 TD
2008 Dwayne Bowe, 86 catches, 1022 yards, 7 TD

Hmmm. I wonder if those guys might have helped Chad Henne a little bit this year?

Just to add a little to this. Imagine if Henne had the security blanket of as Hall of Fame TE at his disposal? Even without this security blanket, Henne completed 5% more passes than Thigpen.

Thigpen had 12 INT in 420 attempts, or 2.9%. Henne had 14 in 451 attempts, or 3.1%. It's hardly much of a difference. I won't pretend that I know a lot about the kind of INT that Thigpen threw in 2008. But, I do know that Henne had 1 INT that should have been caught by Ricky, another that should have been caught by Ginn (for a big play against New Orleans), and 3 against Buffalo that all came on tipped passes.

As for TD passes, Thigpen had 18 compared to just 13 for Henne. As a team, the Chiefs ran for 9 TD in 2008. Only 6 of those came from a RB, the other 3 came from Thigpen. If the 2008 Chiefs were going to score a TD, it had to be by the pass because they had no other choice. And Thigpen had the luxury of having one of the best red zone threats of all time in Tony Gonzalez, and a big physical wideout in Bowe. Meanwhile, the 2009 Dolphins had 20 rushing TD from their running backs. They were definitely not dependent on a pass to get the ball in the endzone. And it's a good thing, because the 2009 Dolphins had no red zone threats in the passing game. Our WR combined for 6 TD catches in 2009. And if you think that's Chad Henne's fault, they combined for just 5 TD catches in 2008 with Pennington at the helm. I would not hold Henne's low TD total against him in any way. Hold it against the weapons he had to work with.

LOL!! That post right there by Mark makes this whole thread a little less compeling.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Henne will be next years starter.

I realize there are a lot of factors that shape how you evaluate each guy.

I agree that having a HOF TE would help Henne, but having Ricky & Ronnie and lots of 3rd and 3 situations did help him. Thigpen had better targets, but less running game support to balance.

My main point wasn't to say that 1 is better than the other...but that the numbers indicate that an equal competition has merit.

Only if you ignore the fact that Henne had the 4th ranked running game balancing the offence. Take away a solid ground game and you passing suffers.

Also, Thigpen might say that having Long protecting his blind side would have improved his stats in KC.

Great post, dolphinmark!

You need to read a little more carefully. I wasn't arguing that Thigpen is better.

I said quite clearly that the stats indicate that an open competition has merit.

Yes he had a HOF TE. Who has had 13 seasons, his 3rd best was when Thigpen started 11 games. His 2008 performance exceeded this years, and many others in that HOF career.

Yes he had Dwayne Bowe, who had his best season with Thigpen starting 11 games.

You guys want to discount the fact that we had the 4th leading rushing team in 2009 and KC had the 16th in 2008 by saying we ran more? We ran more because we were good at it. THAT helps the QB.

in 2008 Scouts Inc. ranked the KC OL DEAD LAST of 32 teams and ours was 30th. In 2009 they have us ranked at 14th.

So Thigpen playing behind the worst OL in the league, with less run support had stats equal to Henne playing behind the 14th best OL with great run support. Henne did not have the Targets that Thigpen had; however, Thigpen was able to use those targets better than Matt Cassel, and as good as Trent Green.

I would say those stats say he's worth a look.

Or we can just say

"nah, Henne's our guy"

I think Mark blew this whole thing out of the water, honestly.

It undeniable what a HOF TE and a true #1 WR do for a QB.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

That's a superficial point.

That HOF TE had his 3 best season ( of 12) with Thigpen starting starting in the majority of games.

That was done behind the league's worst OL of that year.

You can't just say "he had a HOF TE" and assume that good things come.
In the end, a QB has to be good enough to complete passes to open targets. We've seen our share of guys who couldn't.

Ask Randy Moss about his numbers in Oakland.

I think that blows that argument out of the water.

Moss didnt play. I mean he was dressed out and on the field, but I think you forgot.....he didnt play in Oakland. Literally.


Argument blown.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

What are you talking about?

Moss started 28 games in Oakland. And his numbers were poor in Oakland.

Are you trying to dismiss the validity of my argument with a supposition that he wasn't trying?

Moss played in Oakland. Moss TRIED in Oakland. Moss was frustrated in Oakland because his QB could not get him the ball.

You can't dismiss Thigpen's efficacy in KC 2008 simply by saying "he had a HOF TE." Passing is a two-way thing. And the Moss example is extremely relevant.

Tyler Thigpen delivered the ball to those targets. He rushed for yardage when they weren't open. Like I said of 12 seasons...this HOF TE had his 3rd best season with Thigpen starting the majority of the games. 2 way street.

Argument still in the water. The boat wasn't even rocked.

Actually...what did that HOF TE think of Thigpen at the end of 2008?

"You already got your quarterback," tight end Tony Gonzalez told ESPN. "You get something else to help us."

"It would be a disgrace if they don't," Gonzalez told ESPN. "We've been playing well since he came in."

"I could see this being a playoff team next year. I could see us turning it around."

But what does he know.

I had no opinion on him whatsoever until I saw him play with us this year.

I was focussed on Henne and White and didn't give a crap about Thigpen.

Then I saw him evade the rush and throw it away like Joe Montana.
Then I saw him evade the rush and find a target like John Elway.
And I saw him hit Anthony Fasano in stride making FASANO look like Tony Gonzalez/Jeremy Shockey etc.

And I saw him evade the rush, and throw a perfect long pass to Davone Bess, making Bess look like Steve Smith....and I thought....holy crap this guy has something I haven't seen in a Dolphin's Uniform in a long time.

Then I started looking into his past and realized he has shown ability and had some success. What if? he had the benefit of reps with the 1st team in training camp?

As the 3rd string QB he gets 5-10% of the reps in our offense and spend the majority of his time acting as the opposing QB running the scout team.

He has no chemistry with Ginn, Camarilo, Bess and other starters...he's barely thrown to them. What if he got to practice our offence with those guys?


Am I saying he is better than Henne? no. But I can't say Henne is better than him either.

Henne has a stronger arm, but Thigpen is more mobile. Both can help and hurt a QB....they need to develop. It would be great if we had 2 guys pushing each other.

The mistake would be to anoint 1 guy without looking at both in an equal competition.

Realist, totally agree with this.

When we picked up Thigpen I thought he would be #2 as soon as he learned the offense. I watched him several times last year and was supprised that KC brought Cassel in. Thigpen can play and that is a fact.
He needs to compete. Just as you said, it can only help both QBs and our team.

So, let's say we re-sign Pennington in the offseason. Then we start training camp with Henne/White/Thigpen/Pennington. I smell a trade. SOME team is going to want one of those guys (Henne is untouchable, of course).