I have to side with Angryseas on this one. Remember when we beat the pats and were still dreaming playoffs. We agreed that we had to sweep the remaining games to have a realistic chance. Well we went 1 and 3 against teams that didn't make the playoffs. Personally I would have preferred a stronger finish to the season to give me hope for the next year instead of consoling myself with draft picks AND oh, let's not forget the perfect season. There's a reason why football is called a game. It's primary function is to entertain and the last month of our season was not very entertaining. Frankly, after seeing how well the jets are playing I am not very optimistic about next season.

Angryseas, I see your point.

Hooligan2, a "stronger finish" would have probably put us in the playoffs and I agree that we should have played to get into the playoffs.

However, when it was only the last half of that one game and we had already been eliminated, ......we have to agree to disagree.

As it turned out we ended up with a decidedly improved pick with the late season losses, and just may end up having a tremendous impac tin the draft.

At 12 we have a decent chance of an impact player, much more so than if we had won and just missed the playoffs or got bounced out the 1st playoff game.

Qhen we lost to BUF, it began to feel like we didn't have what it takes to win in the post season, even after beating the Pats we then dropped key games that coulds have put us in it.

HOU & Pit game losses sealed the deal

In that case, I suppose I look at things from a coach or player's point of view, not a GM's. But, contrary to popular belief, I do see your point. I simply don't share it. Meaningless pawns don't think of themselves that way.

Rick

I believe that this is the correct extrapolation of cause and effect.

Rick

as dolphan said i do understand the point of a better draft but what you are failing to see is that losing develops a loser mentality so you draft a higher player next year but your vets are maybe just a little more beat down as opposed to feeling like they belong among the elite teams....not to mention if you are an elite FA who would you be more looking to sign with us or thejets

i dont see losing intentionally for better draft position as part of this discussion...imo any organazation that would even consider this (i dont believe there to be any)doesnt belong in the nfl

while i can take soem solace in a higher draft choice my position is that i would be happeir fininshing strong and building a winner than gambling on a higher draft choice..either way you look at it it is difficult to gauge which would help a team more

i guess my biggest issue is with those that are giddy about losing when we are out of it..imo they just see things wrong... i am not an all or nothing fan..sb or bust is a poor view imo...my grandfather (a lifelong red sox fan)always said he just wanted them to keep him interested thru the season...it is after all just entertainment and while i wouldnt rteally know given are record as long as ive been a fan but im pretty sure i get no dividend check if and when they win the sb

Agree.

Rick

yeah maybe a little but you are missing my point a bit i think...the colts are already without a doubt in the elite..they already have the swagger...theyy already know they belong...do the fins feel like that...while i somewhat see what you are saying it is not exactly the same thing...but yes i do feel by not finishing strong they somewhat took away that feeling of"we are the colts and we simply dont lose" and it may hurt them

A different point with the colts but similar in that it puts the teammentality into "not giving it all" in meaningless games with intent rather to "save the good players from injury"

Thoughts:

1. I hated the Colts doing it, as the edge they would have had (extra emotion) and a shared vision for what had not been done - undefeated; was lost in theprocess

- IMHO the colts would have wond the game if the starters stayed in
- IMHO the jets have gainsed a lot of momentum since that game and have had the experience of beating them lately (and badly when playing without all startes for the colts.
- IMHO the Jets have the mental edge

2. Those in favor would counter that yes but the protection / lack of risk and rest is worth it to get the SB win.

Bottom line - They better win or they lose a lot next year and what perhaps could have been.

- Else it could be really bad for long term team morale if they were to come out flat against the jets and were to lose ... they would have given up the emotional edge with the decision to to NOT GIVE THEIR ALL in the reg season.

Gonna be a good one.


One last counter point to my argumet above ... the Saints came out smoking after the rest. They however did not choose to give up the undefeated run ... they lost that game ... thus different

wildcat = playoffs, i hope that the WC haters can understand that now. The fact that the jets are in the playoffs and we beat them twice is proof that their is not a huge difference between the top 10 AFC teams and anyone of them could have ran the table to the championship (that includes us)

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wildcat = playoffs, i hope that the WC haters can
> understand that now.

Nope, still don't understand it. Cause the Colts, Vikings, and Saints don't run the Wildcat at all.

So, basically Reppa, you are saying no wildcat means no playoffs. Well, without Ronnie Brown we (or any other team in the NFL for that matter) cant run the wildcat at all.

So basically you should refine your point to this:

No Ronnie Brown, no playoffs. Because thats essentially what you are saying.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I'm not saying that they are rooting against the team. If you had finished your post after the first sentence, I would have agreed with it. But, I can't agree with all of it. You said, "They are willing to sacrifice feeling good about a meaningless win to put themselves in a better position to achieve the franchises ultimate goal next season." There is no such thing as a "meaningless" game! As a fan, you have the luxury of seeing "the big picture". The players, coaches, and even the GM do not, they have to win as much as possible NOW. Teams and employees live more in the "NOW" than we do. Any of them might not be here next year. I like the way the draft used to be viewed. It wasn't a media event, with every player scrutinized to the Nth degree. It wasn't too much a part of a team's strategic thinking. It was a way to get bodies on the field, a way to restock your team. This game uses up players at a frightening rate, always has. Draft order was a consequence of "parity", so it wasn't something a team jockeyed for. The game was more compartmentalized, and the draft a way to replace worn out bodies. Whether you realize it or not, that is still its basic function.

Rick

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not saying that they are rooting against the
> team. If you had finished your post after the
> first sentence, I would have agreed with it. But,
> I can't agree with all of it. You said, "They are
> willing to sacrifice feeling good about a
> meaningless win to put themselves in a better
> position to achieve the franchises ultimate goal
> next season." There is no such thing as a
> "meaningless" game! As a fan, you have the luxury
> of seeing "the big picture". The players, coaches,
> and even the GM do not, they have to win as much
> as possible NOW. Teams and employees live more in
> the "NOW" than we do. Any of them might not be
> here next year.

RESPONSE: This was precisely what I tried to tell you, (unsuccessfully I might add), in a prior post. As fans, we can root for the long term goals we perceive to be in the best long term interests of the team. Excepting people like SouthFLfinfan who want to get their money's worth (which he has the perfect right to demand), my point was that it was in the best interests of the fan to lose this meaningless game and pick up better draft choices (and far be it from me to say that those draft choices cannot be screwed up, I've seen it too many times but I have also seen teams snatch a good prospect before he fell to a division rival).

Now, the standpoint of the coaches, GM, etc. is entirely different. The first difference is that if the NFL is convinced that they are INTENTIONALLY LOSING a game, then that is cause for action on the part of the league. (Also consider the gambling implications of that). However, what the Colts did would not come under that classification. Not playing your best players to keep them from injury is not intentionally losing a game.

In my prior post, I tried to explain to you that my advice was to the people on this board to hope for a loss, not that I was demanding that the coaches and players lose the game. But you, Dolphan4545 either claimed that you did not care about or you did not understand the difference. In fact, you claim that "that is just crazy."

So it's funny to me to see you preaching the same sermon that you condemned me for speaking. So which is it?

Are can you put this all together in your mind?

Hoping for a loss-or suggesting that anybody else hope for a loss-IS crazy. If you can't understand that, then forget it. Your point of view is foolish, but widespread.

Rick

You don't know how ridiculous that last statement sounds.

Correction: You don't know how ridiculous that last POST sounds.

MikeO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Miami Reppa Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > wildcat = playoffs, i hope that the WC haters
> can
> > understand that now.
>
> Nope, still don't understand it. Cause the Colts,
> Vikings, and Saints don't run the Wildcat at all.


I am not referring to other teams, i can care less about the colts, vikings, and saints. I am saying that with the wildcat we "dolphins" are a much better team and would have made a DEEP playoff run. That statement pertains only to the dolphins.

As you will. Forget it.

Rick

6 impact players on IR = No playoffs

and when you have Brett Favre, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees...you don't take them off the field to run the WC.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 6 impact players on IR = No playoffs
>
Yep! I'm surprised we came so close!


> and when you have Brett Favre, Peyton Manning and
> Drew Brees...you don't take them off the field to
> run the WC.

No brainer there. How would the fans have felt if we took Dan Marino off the field to run the WC with Damon Huard?

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MikeO Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Miami Reppa Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > wildcat = playoffs, i hope that the WC haters
> > can
> > > understand that now.
> >
> > Nope, still don't understand it. Cause the
> Colts,
> > Vikings, and Saints don't run the Wildcat at
> all.
>
>
> I am not referring to other teams, i can care less
> about the colts, vikings, and saints. I am saying
> that with the wildcat we "dolphins" are a much
> better team and would have made a DEEP playoff
> run. That statement pertains only to the
> dolphins.


That is the most idiotic thing ever. With our defense we weren't making a deep playoff run vs anybody. Please. Stop with the nonsense