Mike, Welker is very fortunate to be a #3 WR who plays the perfect position for him (the slot) and has the best QB in the NFL throwing him passes.

Any other team he is average-slightly above average WR.....nothing more. But in that sytem he is great. Come on Mike, that same system made guys like David Givens, Deion Branch and Jabar Gaffney have pro bowl like numbers, so lets just be realistic here.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I agree that to suddenly decide that Bess is as good or in the same league.. err... ok he is clealry in the NFL, but as good as Welker is highly premature. But Bess has been playing well recently and they do have a lot of similarities in play style. Wes Welker wasn't Wes Welker in his second season playing either.

Still, here are the stats which are meaningful only in what one might assume will happen


Welker
rec yds yds/g avg. lng td 1st YAC trgt
2006 Miami Dolphins 67 687 42.9 10.3 38 1 33 285 100

Bess
(2008 Miami Dolphins 54 554 34.6 10.3 37 1 29 277 75)
2009 Miami Dolphins 46 397 39.7 8.6 25 0 27 172 65

Do people think the numbers are comparable? Bess definitely started the year with a sophomore slump but I find his 27 1st down receptions 10 games into the season to be on pace to blow away Welker's. He is on pace to have roughly the same amount of receptions. He will have been targeted less, which I think has more to do with play calling.

Bottom line: If he keeps up his play then he already is the next welker (minus good PR skills) in terms of our Welker circa 2006, but he has a lot more to prove (and needs a real dangerous WR and for Henne to prove he can be a really good Q before he is legitimately compared to the Welker of 2009. Comparing the two is far from ridiculous though and quite appropriate in terms of who we hope he will become. Comparing the two is ridiculous though if you think it is clear he is already there.

I don't see the same quickness from Bess. Bess is quick, but Welker is exceptionally quick. Welker gets more separation. And Welker has more straight line speed, too.

Welker goes against everything you would think from a guy his size. Since I live in New England, I get to watch the guy torch DB's all day. He has the ability to almost ALWAYS make the first guy miss. He is awesome...

To revive this thread now that we see these two players both have great games head to head. Any new comments?

One point I want to make, I think Bess is more capable of making the acrobatic catch. Other than that Welker is a bit better at everything (seems a bit qucker, has a bit better moves, plays a bit smarter). Still seeing them both make similar plant and pivot moves, both having pretty good YAC plays, both demanding double teams, I have to say I feel very good about Bess. I am still slow to judge and won't crown him as being at the same level, but I stand by the fact that it is reasonable to hope.

Bess had a nice game today. Welker has games like today every few weeks. That is the difference. One guy is a pro bowl player week in and week out, the other is a nice player who has a big game a year,...maybe 2 big games a year.

"the other is a nice player who has a big game a year,...maybe 2 big games a year."

I don't understand the reasoning. Are you making a statistical argument based on the fact that Bess hasn't had that many big games yet? Since Bess is only in his second year, You don't have enough years to back that up statistically. I am not saying he is Welker yet, but Welker was no better when he was with the phins in his second year of real play (Bess is projected to have more receptions and is destroying him in 1st down conversions arena). If you were consistent and applied the same reasoning to Welker circa 2006 then you would have to wonder why NE traded for him.

Again, I am not saying he is in the same boat as welker YET, but there is every reason to believe he could be a similar impact player based on his skill set and his performance.

From yesterday's game:

Welker: 10 rec 167 yards 0 TD's
Bess: 10 rec 117 yards 1 TD

The chief difference is this: Welker is quicker which enables him to get open faster and in a smaller space than Bess. Welker also gets to top speed quicker, again in a shorter diatance on the field. Oh and Welker has better hands...even when Welker was here he routinely caught balls that I've seen Bess drop.

That said, different quarterbacks do play a part in this.

Beyond that there is no doubt, Welker benefits greatly from being around the other players on that team....and from experience.

Now if Ginn will start having more productive games and make the kind of catches he made in the Pats game more often we'd be on to something...especially since we need to add a big time guy regardless.

That would close the book on Cammarillo or Turner though.

they're the perfect compliment to one another. neither is as effective w/o one another.

your a fool. Welker was not even a fantasy option when he was with the dolphins so what do you say he magically became superman when he went to the pats? If it that easy why didnt they have a welker before?

You have to look at potential which you clearly are not. How can you be an elite wr on a power run team? You wont have the numbers. Now that welker is with the pats who throw the ball like 40-50 times versus us who throw it 18-25 (normally) you cant have big number.

And you are right bess is no welker... bess is BETTER than welker. He is a second year player and when we became a passing team throwning 50+ balls look at what he did. If we throw 35-50 balls per game he would be a fantasy beast!!!

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And you are right bess is no welker... bess is
> BETTER than welker.

Dude, put down the koolaid. When Bess make a ProBowl, then MAYBE you can say this. Right now you're just completely wrong.

I do have one major worry about Bess. did you see his interview? The hawaii guy with a bob marley shirt? That really only means one thing...

I think Bess is just as good as Welker....I just think Welker has a legitimate deep threat/true #1 WR in Randy Moss.


Bess is making plays as the only guy. That, says alot to me.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

When Bess does it week-in and week-out, then I'll say he's as good a Welker. I can't ignore all the drops Bess had early in the year. Welker doesn't drop balls like that. Welker als gets more YAC.

Well, today is a step back for Bess. Still think he can be great, but he can't have games like this and be great. On the other hand as soon as they called the play I yelled at the screen because I knew they were putting him in a bad situation.

Bess is a nice player. But he isn't and never will be in Welker's league That isn't a knock on Bess but its just reality

I still say it is too early to tell if he will be able to be in the same conversation. He definitely made a statement today though and it was an expletive. The fumbling and PR are the major differences as statistically he has done more than Welker did at this point in his career. Unfortunately that includes more fumbling. We shall see though.

Exactly Aria! If both started their rookie years at the same time Bess would be ahead of Welker and more productive. Let's hold off on the B.S. until Bess has another year or so under his belt to let Bess get to his max potential as Welker has already had enough time to do. Bottom line.... Start them both the same year and Bess is ahead and more productive.

its not too early, you can look at the skill set and the production and Bess isn't in Welker's league

Welker has better hands and better speed, that isn't even up for debate.

This debate and comparison is laughable. If you called up any radio show in this country and even mentioned this they would hang up on you within seconds. If you talked to any NFL GM or scout they would laugh out loud in your face.

Welker= NFL Pro Bowl Player who starts for any NFL team, and a special teams ACE

Bess=Journeymen NFL player who will never make a pro bowl, will NEVER start for a good NFL team, and will never do anything on special teams

IT's downright laughable that some people around here can't see the obvious, but oh well....some people believe in UFO's too so! lol lol

The point is PhinFans2, Welker IS NOW regarded as one of the most valuable receivers in the NFL. That may be due to his coach or quarterback.

Sure Bess needs the four years to make a comparison but no one is saying NOW that based on his numbers the rest of the league had BETTER WATCH OUT. Of course, neither did they say that about Welker at this point but it all comes back around to Bess must prove himself.

However, I don't remember Welker either fumbling the ball once catching it or dropping passes.

I'm not riding Bess but if you are trying to say we did not make a mistake in not doing everything we could to keep Welker then I hotly disagree.

He was the only one making clutch plays for us when he left. Yeah, Chambers had the occasional deep ball but he was clutch, even when he was with us.

Bess does not have the physical tools that Welker has. Welker is quicker, cuts better, and has much better straight line speed. Bess is downright slow. He has quickness in those first 10 yards. But, anything beyond that and his lack of any speed is glaring. Welker also has better hands. Bess caught everything last year, but his hands have been less consistent this year. He's also developed this fumbling problem. I think he has 5 on the season after his two today. Bess is a poor man's Welker, but he's not in the same class of player. More time in the league is not going to make Bess any faster, and that's a key difference between them. Welker has some explosion to him, Bess doesn't.

I like Bess, but he's not Welker. Personally, I think Camarillo is a better all around WR than Bess. At least he was before the knee injury. I think he's lost some zip and ability to separate this season. Next year, another year removed from the ACL surgery, maybe he'll get that back.

Hey Mike! I find it funny that we agree 100% on this. We seem to disagree on everything else

He stunk because in his second year he was still primarily a kick returner. Is that because he *stunk* or maybe because Saban didn't want to run an offense with 3 WR very much? I don't know if you guys remember but we had this guy Randy McMichael who was a TE who could actually catch. I know it is pretty far fetched looking at our TE's now but it is possible.

In his third year he had the desiccated corpse of Daunte Culpepper and superloser Joey Harrington throwing to him and he led the team in catches.

Bess gets a lot more looks because he doesn't have Chambers and Booker in front of him, like Welker did. I don't see how that makes him better. In terms of football skills Welker not only has straight line speed on Bess, he has quickness and he runs better routes. Bess is good at finding open space in the zone and that puts him above our other guys, but let's not let their ineptitude put this guy on some kind of pedestal.