Amen,

at this time of my life I could care less about the undefeated season. I was a nine year old kid and it was one of the greatest moments of my childhood. Now I am 46 and want that feeling again. Records are there to be broken and if someone breaks it I will congratulate them (except the Jets, even the Pats). I want the phins to win another Super bowl. I hate all the talk about the 'perfect season' get on w/ the future and win win win.

I'm going to weigh in on ChyrenB's side of the legacy thing.

Like several previous posters, I also was a very young kid in 1972. I was at most of the home games that year and I cherish the memory as one of the highlights of my childhood.

I DO care about the perfect record, even though it was long ago. I DO want to see it preserved. The longer ago it was, the more of an awesome achievement it is proven to be every year it stands.

However if that record must fall in my lifetime, The two contending teams are the top two that deserve the achievement. The Saints with their painful history of losing seasons year after year, and the Colts, who are a class organization led by a truly great QB...whose father ironically used to QB for the Saints.

If it happens this year, seeing the Colts or the Saints go undefeated won't make me want to puke my guts out as if it were the Jets or Pats.
But I sure won't be rooting for it to happen!

The Colts offer some interesting intrigue, since Shula was their coach only a few years before leading Miami to an undefeated season. Perhaps they feel the undefeated season should have been theirs in the first place?

When Dickerson broke OJ's rushing record he had two extra games to do it. The entire NFL world yawned in unison. Comparing a 14 game season to a 16 games season, IMHO is like apples and oranges. Likewise, a perfect 17-0 season and a perfect 19-0 season(in an expanded league) are two different animals. If anything, the 19-0 season is a much greater accomplishment. If one of these teams does finish the season undefeated, I hope our new focus is to become the first franchise with two perfect records. That's my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

Phinsfan, I see your points. But this comes from someone that did watch every game of those two great seasons. We were truly watching the greatest teams of all time up to that point. First the undefeated season and then the season after.
What was so neat was the great coaching job of Shula and his staff. It was not about finding away to win. That was never the issue. It was about being so well prepared and making the necessary adjustments and executing so well that there was never a question about it. Yes there were close games during that undefeated season, but the next year, after a couple losses, the Phins were virtually unstoppable. Truly it was history in the making.

All that being said, I agree that records were made to be broken. You can't really compare that time with today anyway. The rules are so different that comparing is not really possible.

Call me what you want, but I think it would be neat to see two undefeated teams in the Super Bowl. That happening so close the NE going the the SB with no losses shows how much the NFL has changed even over the last few years.

Now here is what I think will happen. The Vikings will knock off the Saints in the playoffs and then beat the Colts in the SB if the Colts make it there.
So why worry? The Vikings are the best team in the NFL right now.

Bringing up NE raises an interesting point. The Dolphins didn't go into the '72 season expecting to go undefeated. Even as the season went on that was NEVER the goal. It was a happy consequence of how they played that season. On the other hand, even though NE may not have been thinking about it when the '07 season began, going undefeated became their goal towards the 2nd-half of their season. That's why they played their starters in the last 2 meaningless games as well as well into the 4th quarter of games where they had a big lead. They risked injury and gave up much-needed rest in the process, and it was, ultimately, their undoing.

If the Colts or Saints go undefeated this year, it won't be because they made it their mission. Their coaching staffs won't make the same mistake Belichick did.

My prediction:

The Colts will lose focus and stumble in week 15 against Jacksonville but will make a heavy push in the playoffs and make the Superbowl. They'll note that loss as the motivating factor to the rest of their season.

New Orleans will lose in the last game of the regular season to Carolina. Brees won't play in that game.

Chicago will have a tough winter, and even though Favre is accustomed to playing in cold weather, his aging body won't take a brutal game in Chicago in December. Favre goes down with an injury, and so goes the Vikings' season.

Superbowl: Colts -vs- New Orleans

Saints win



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/2009 07:10AM by montequi.

I personally don't really care that much about the perfect season. I was born 4 month after the 72 Dolphins won the SB.

Living in NE, I definately did NOT want the Patriots to win the SB 07 when they went 16-0. In fact the way they lost SB made it so much better. I definately didn't want to hear about for year to come about a perfect season from NE. It doesn't seem like anyone talk about the 07 Pats team being 16-0.

I wonder prefer, Indy or New Orleans not to go 19-0 and leaving my favorite team the only perfect season since the AFL-NFL merger, but it if it happen, it happens. I sure won't be rooting against them like I was rooting like against NE.

PhinFans2, in response to JC you said "Nobody will be rooting for it to happen JC, we all take some level of pride in the fact that the '72 fins went 17-0."

Yet in the posting that started the fireworks between us you referred to it as "some ridiculous record from 37 years ago."

Are you sure you are not a politician too?

I'll respond to your post next.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:

>
> Nobody will be rooting for it to happen JC,


I hope not, but I seem to recall at least one person on this board rooting for the Pats to go undefeated in 2007. I don't know why, but I've noticed that some people who weren't around at all back in 1972 somehow seem to resent that they missed out on the experience as a fan, and kind of wish it away so they don't have to hear people like me reminisce about it.

>
> Would you trade being the only undefeated Super
> Bowl winner for another champion ship or two?
>

Of course not--especially since if we were to win the championship, nobody would be undefeated (except us if we're talking about a future season). That's a great way to prevent others from going undefeated--win the super bowl!

> Were you rooting for the Colts to lose to
> baltimore this weekend to protect the '72 teams
> legacy or for baaltimore to lose to further the
> '09 teams shot at the post season?

I was rooting for the Phins'interests this year, so that means I wanted the Colts to win to help our wildcard chances. As you said there are still many games yet to go, so I don't (yet) view this point in the season as do-or-die for the 1972 season, especially since we're still in contention for the playoffs. As I said above, when we're in the hunt for the playoffs, we're in the hunt for the championship--THAT's the way to preserve 1972, for US to win.

If the Colts would have lost I would have accepted that as a consolation prize. Similar to how I accepted the jets losing as a consolation prize for their game against the Pats, because the Jets winning would have helped our standing in the division.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As if your/my rooting against/for the Colts or
> Saints has any impact...

RESPONSE: This is really an illogical statement because someone sitting OUTSIDE of our argument could logically say it but since we are both rooting for outcomes and arguing over which outcome we should root for, why do you, one of the two participants, get to say, "Hey, why are you guys even discussing this? Neither of you can affect the outcome."


Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But obviously we are from different planets. If
> our previous discussions disn't prove that then
> this one sure does.

RESPONSE:
This should have been all that you should have said.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So what? Do you have any idea just how hard it
> is to go 19-0 in this league? IF someone manages
> to pull it off, I'll tip my cap and then start
> worrying about how we can beat their a$$ next
> year.

RESPONSE: No, I will be forced to admit that they accomplished something GREATER than the 72 Dolphins but I will not "tip my hat" or "raise a glass" to it.

I think its obvious that the perfect record means nothing to you. That's okay. Like you said, we come from different worlds. But don't, at the same time, try to make a logical reason why your feelings are a matter of logic and the other person's feelings are a matter of frivolity.


Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it were in my power to exchange our solo spot
> atop Mt Olympus for a playoff berth this
> year..would I? You bet...and I'd do it in a
> heartbeat.
>
> That's the difference between you and me.

RESPONSE: Up to this point you are staying on track.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> You are more interested in protecting a legacy
> than adding to it.

RESPONSE: No, no, no, no, no, no, no! There you are being illogical. If I were rooting AGAINST THE DOLPHINS THEMSELVES IN A GAME, you could say that. Then I would be rooting against ADDING to the legacy.

By rooting for the Patriots to BEAT THE SAINTS, I AM NOT DIRECTLY ROOTING AGAINST ADDING TO THE LEGACY. I AM ROOTING TO PRESERVE IT!!!!!

A different case ON AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ARGUMENT might theoretically be made if the PATS-Saints GAME were the LAST REGULAR SEASON GAME OF THE YEAR and a Saints Victory would get us into the playoffs while a loss would eliminate us. But that's not the case here.

The illogic? Even you yourself have talked about how doubtful you think it is that either the Saints or Colts will go undefeated. So now, why is it that the Saints are the only ones besides ourselves who can beat the Pats WHO WOULD NOT HAVE EVEN WON YESTERDAY AGAINST THE JETS WITHOUT 4 GIFT WRAPPED PRESENTS FROM MARK SANCHEZ!

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look at that number...37 YEARS AGO. Another 10
> years of adding cobwebs, instead of
> accomplishemnts, to our legacy and we'll be the
> team that went undefeated "back in the era before
> the Salary Cap" which will carry as much weight
> as being the teams that won championships "before
> the AFL/NFL merger"

RESPONSE: Again, you are being illogical. YES, THERE WAS NO SALARY CAP BUT ALSO THERE WAS VERY LITTLE MOVEMENT OF PLAYERS BETWEEN TEAMS. YOU ESSENTIALLY HAD TO DRAFT A TEAM AND WIN WITH THAT TEAM WITHOUT ADDING HIGH PRICE MANNY RAMIREZes from other teams.



Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, but you are going to have to forgive me for
> preferring to see my teams current chances
> improved, no matter how slim, of winning a title
> that I can actually remember, versus rooting
> against that teams interests to protect a 37 year
> old accomplishment from two teams that STILL have
> to win 9 more games to surpass it.

RESPONSE: Yep, that describes the difference between us. You would throw away the legacy for about a 10% chance of even making the playoffs.


Phinsfan2 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> You have every right to cherish that
> accomplishment above everything else. Even if
> that means rooting AGAINST the very same team
> who's accomplishment you value so highly.
>
> Just don't expect everyone else to feel the same
> way.

RESPONSE: Logic, Logic, Logic, PhinFans, I'm not rooting AGAINST the Dolphins unless I root for them to LOSE.

At the beginning of your post, you were accurately mouthing "rooting against their interests" but then you started to slip into "rooting against them" and now you convert it to a mantra. Are you a politician?

I root for the Pats to lose like I did when they played against the Jets. There were some on the board that hated the Jets so much, they said that they could not root for the Jets to win even though they would not be dispointed with that result. Was I one of those people? NOOOOO!

I am rooting EVERY GAME FOR THE PATS TO LOSE except when they can help preserve that "some ridiculous record from 37 years ago."

How old are you, Phinfans2?

Its obvious that the line is drawn and need not be repeated.

I would perhaps take the chance on having some other team go undefeated if both we and the Pats were at 14-1 and had split our games, and the Division title was at stake (which meant the loser would have to play in the wild card bracket) and the last game the Pats was playing was against an undefeated team from the National Football Conference.

In that case, I might root for them to beat the Pats.

Of course, our chances of making the playoffs if we lose to the Pats, indeed if we lose another game is those of a...................as we say here in Southern California "snowflake in Tijuana."

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Deny all you want,
> but you put your own interests ahead of the
> intrests of the current team. Fine. You are
> entitled. Just don't try to sell it as anything
> other than that.

RESPONSE:
Yes, above that of the CURRENT team. Not against the interests of the Miami Dolphins as an institution which was what the effect of what you said was.

PhinFans2 wrote:

> They did the same thing you did. They put their
> own interests (unadulterated hatred for the Jets)
> ahead of this teams best interests.
> The fact that it was a different game is
> meaningless.

RESPONSE: Oh, it makes all the difference in the world. In that game, only the interests of the CURRENT team was at stake and that's why I rooted for the Jets. In the Pats-New Orleans Pats-Indy game, the interests of the 72 Dolphins were at stake as well.

That's why I would rather root for the preservation of the perfect record than to trade it for the SLIM chances of a team whose only hope to get into the playoffs REALISTICALLY (not the damn millions of crazy wild card scenarios you dream up like a high school geek) but REALISTICALLY is for us to beat the Pats and win the rest of our game and for somebody else to beat them as well. Anybody else EXCEPT THE UNDEFEATED COLTS AND SAINTS! and the Jets showed that plenty other teams are capable of beating the Pats.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are either 100% behind this years team or not.


RESPONSE: I could say the same thing about our legacy but you have already stated that you care no more for it than it being a "ridiculous record from 37 years ago."


Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are either pulling for outcomes that improve
> their chances of making the post season or winning
> a title, or you are not.


RESPONSE: our SLIM chances. And the only thing that matters is us beating the Pats AND BUFFALO and not losing to anyone else.

Then all we need is for someone else to beat the Pats and they are very beatable. But the same luck that had them prevail over the Jets could help them beat the Saints.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But you made it abundantly clear that protecting
> the '72 team's leagacy is more important to you.

Your words. Not mine. You picked the '72
> Dolphins over rooting for this year's team and its
> chances of getting to the post season. That's
> fine, just accept it and stop trying to have it
> both ways. It makes you look like a
> politician...

RESPONSE: I'm not trying to HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. I said up front that I would trade this years SLIM CHANCES for preserving the '72 Dolphins undefeated record.

But where I think most people would agree with me is that probably the best way to have both is for New England to beat New Orleans and somebody else beat New England.


I previously wrote:

> > I am rooting EVERY GAME FOR THE PATS TO LOSE
> except when they can
> > help preserve that "some ridiculous record from
> 37 years ago."


then Phinsfan2 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
>
> That just proves my point. You were rooting for
> the Pats to beat the colts two weeks ago when you
> said: "I'd root for the Pats to protect the 17-0."
>
> You rooted for the Pats with SEVEN weeks left in
> the season despite the fact that a loss by them
> would have made it easier for us to get back in
> the division race. Thats TWO WEEKS in a row you
> chose the '72 fins over the '09 fins.
> Case closed.
>
RESPONSE: Case closed? Two weeks in a row!!!!!! Your math is off. Last week I rooted for the Jets to beat the Pats! Everybody is entitled to make a mistake, I guess.


Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Old enough to know that what the '72
> Dolphins did was amazing,

RESPONSE: Not some ridiculous record from 37 years ago?

and old enough to know
> that the farther away from that achievement we
> get, the less meaningful it is to Football Fans in
> general. And that at some point in the not too
> distant future it will be relegated to the same
> football obscurity as the accomplishments of every
> team and star that played before the merger is
> today.


RESPONSE: This is where I disagree. Until someone breaks it, it will only grow and grow in significance.

However, once it is broken, then because of the 16 game season, it won't be worth (as one of Lyndon Johnson's buddies said) "a warm pitcher of spit."

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------->
> Sure it means something to us, but go talk to any
> football fan under 40 and you'll find it means
> next to nothing. They are far more impressed
> with the Pats of this decade, the Steelers 6
> titles, the 49's and cowboys of the 80's and 90's.
> We are in danger of becoming the guy that is
> relegated to re-living his High School "glory
> days" over and over cause that was when he was a
> big shot.
>
> I refuse to be that guy.
>
> The new replaces the old. Its the way of the
> world.
>
> Remember the past and learn from it, for those
> that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat
> it, but never forsake the present to protect the
> past.


RESPONSE: What a flourishing and poetic end.

WARNING: READING THIS TOPIC WILL DROP YOUR IQ BY 50 POINTS!!!!!

I really like how our "fans" would rather protect a record that has never been broken at the expense of our current playoff chances.

Let me state clearly:

There are 6 games left. The Colts and Saints WILL lose one of those remaining games. At that time I'm going to compile a list of all of the idiots who thought they would go undefeated after week 10.

Hell some of you were saying they'll go undefeated even before this week.

Once again I'll state that even the EXTREMELY ANNOYING MERCURY MORRIS is not yet chirping about this.

I do drugs, but I'm still not as F'ed up as some of you on here...

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Yesterday you were pulling for the Ravens to beat
> the colts despite the fact tht a Raven upset in
> that game would have greatly reduced our chances
> of securing a wild card.
>
> Last week you rooted for the Pats against the
> Colts despite the fact that a Pats loss would put
> us back in the mix for a DIVISION title.
>
> Check me on this because apparently my math is
> shaky but...1+1 = 2, right? Assuming I'm right,
> and 1+1 does equal 2, then that would be TWO WEEKS
> IN A ROW that you chose to root for the '72 fins
> legacy over '09 teams chances of making the post
> season.
>
> I eagerly await your explination of how 1+1 does
> NOT equal 2.
>

RESPONSE: WOW!!!!!!! Now I am rooting against the Dolphins if I root for ANYBODY WHO COULD CONCEIVABLY BEAT ANY OTHER OF THE 8 TEAMS IN THE AFC WITH WHOM WE ARE IN THEORETICAL COMPETITION FOR THIS ghost of a chance wildcard bid which would be harder for us than winning the Division championship.

Be honest, PhinFans2, you really got confused and thought I had rooted for the Pats twice in a row and when I pointed that out to you, you dreamed up this far-fetched explanation.

I doubt anybody but you under those circumstances would consider that by rooting for Baltimore to stop Indy's undefeated season, that they were ROOTING AGAINST OUR CURRENT DOLPHIN TEAM.

LOL!

> > Phinsfan2 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sure, the same way the Bears feat of winning 4
> titles from 1940-1946 and their championship
> record 73-0 shutout of the Redskins in '40
> continues to grow every year...

RESPONSE: You can make your point even better if you go back to Custer's Last Stand.

The Seventh Cavalry would be on my side.

Tell it to SamSam whose tag line on this board is "What is once done well is done FOREVER. 1972 DOLPHINS."

PhinFans2 Wrote:
>
> Bad news my friend. The luster is already
> starting to wear off. The Patriots actually won
> 18 in a row in the 2007 season. Thats one more
> than we managed in '72. Yes they lost the title
> game but they had a harder row to hoe. Still,
> that only serves to highlight the fact that to
> nearly everyone under the age of 40, there is a
> big, and growing, gap between how todays teams are
> viewed when compared to teams from 40 years ago.

RESPONSE: I'm cupping my hands to both ears AND TRYING TO FIND ANYONE WHO EVER TALKS ABOUT THE 2007 PATRIOTS except to say, like one poster has on this board, that it made it all the more delicious for us Dolphin fans that they got all the way to the Super Bowl and lost out there.

THEY WILL ALWAYS BE REMEMBERS AS "LOSERS, LOSERS, LOSERS!"

Whereas the 72 Dolphins will always be remembered as "Perfect, Perfect, Perfect."

The only way that the latter will change is if you get your way and another teams goes undefeated in 19 games.

> > Phinsfan2 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> > > Remember the past and learn from it, for
> those
> > > that don't learn from history are doomed to
> > repeat
> > > it, but never forsake the present to protect
> > the
> > > past.
> >
> >
> > RESPONSE: What a flourishing and poetic end.
>
> My mom would be proud.

RESPONSE: I'm happy for your mom. She should be proud. You are as shifty in your positions as any politician I have met and to add a poetic ability is just an extra gift.

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WARNING: READING THIS TOPIC WILL DROP YOUR IQ BY
> 50 POINTS!!!!!
>
> I really like how our "fans" would rather protect
> a record that has never been broken at the expense
> of our current playoff chances.


RESPONSE: Our "playoff chances" are slim and none. AND SLIM HAS US BEATING THE PATRIOTS AND JUST ONE OTHER TEAM BEATING THEM IN THOSE 5 (YOU SAID 6 BELOW BUT WE PLAY THEM SO THAT REDUCES IT TO 5) GAMES AND ASSUMING THEY BEAT THE SAINTS, THAT LEAVES FOUR OTHER GAMES THEY COULD LOSE.


THE FUTT WROTE:
> Let me state clearly:
>
> There are 6 games left. The Colts and Saints WILL
> lose one of those remaining games. At that time
> I'm going to compile a list of all of the idiots
> who thought they would go undefeated after week
> 10.

RESPONSE: Hmmmmmm. Were you one of those "idiots" who were shocked as hell when in the 10th week of the 2007 season, you thought that with 6 games left to play, the Patriots COULD NOT POSSIBLY GO UNDEFEATED IN 16 GAMES.

It must have made you a double-idiot when they went 18-0.


But noooooo, we don't think that the Colts and/or Saints will go undefeated in the regular season because the Futt has told us so!

The Futt wrote:
>
> Hell some of you were saying they'll go undefeated
> even before this week.


RESPONSE: Certainly not me. I am rooting each week for some team to beat either or both of them.


The Futt wrote:

>
> Once again I'll state that even the EXTREMELY
> ANNOYING MERCURY MORRIS is not yet chirping about
> this.
>
> I do drugs, but I'm still not as F'ed up as some
> of you on here...

RESPONSE: Oh, so Mercury is just an annoyance to you? Better try some different drugs.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > RESPONSE: Our "playoff chances" are slim and
> > none.
>
> History says that 25% of teams that start the
> season 5-5 make the playoffs under this format.
>
> There are currelty 4 teams in the NFL that are
> 5-5:
>
> Miami, Baltimore, Houston and Atlanta.
>
> Take a good look at those teams, their schedules
> over the next 6 weeks and the teams they need to
> pass to get in and YOU tell us which one of them
> makes it.

RESPONSE: Have you forgotten about the Jags, Broncos, and Steelers who are all at 6-4, AND ARE NOT THE DIVISION LEADERS IN THEIR DIVISIONS. I think that has more relevance to our chances being slim and none than the percentage of times in history that 5-5 teams make the playoffs.

In fact, how many times did those 5-5 teams make the playoffs when in addition to the 4 division leaders (if indeed they were not tied for the division lead at 5-5) ahead of them there was also three teams at 6-4.

PhinFans 2 Wrote:
> and Baltimore (whom you were inexplicably rooting
> for).

RESPONSE: Inexplicably? You still don't know despite the fact that this whole post is about preserving the legacy of the 72 Dolphins.

Yeah ChyrenB, you're acting like an idiot for wanting to preserve a 37 year old record that has a slim chance of being broken at the cost of our playoff chances.

And I don't need to dissect your novel of a post to say that.

TheFutt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah ChyrenB, you're acting like an idiot for
> wanting to preserve a 37 year old record that has
> a slim chance of being broken at the cost of our
> playoff chances.
>
> And I don't need to dissect your novel of a post
> to say that.


RESPONSE: I admire your thoughtful and thougt provoking detailed and learned analysis of the situation. Where, oh tell me, did you get your powers of persuasion?

Oh man I love this board..

Does this post set some sort of record for the most quoted in history?