HEY HEY hearts are going to be breaking "WIDE OPEN THAT NIGHT" in the slums of Atlanta!!!! When The real MVP AND COACH OF THE YEAR spank your flaky team, if your team was so great then why is White holding out? we signed all of our guys HEY we even took back players for league MIN because our upper staff is so bad ass! Arthur "blank": his name says it all!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2009 08:33PM by MiamiThunder.

Since I came here, all I did was support Dirty Bird and in return people insulted my team. I argued with esti and we agreed and numerous aspects from Joe Flacco to Chad Pennington to Ted Ginn.

Then you came along, THE POSTER CHILD FOR ILLITERATCY (illiteracy). Big tough, no research, no paragraphs, no sentences, no structure, no spelling, yet tough. You come in claiming that the Wildcat with Pat White (the spread) will be the next West Coast offense. We destroyed that theory yet you decide to go on and bash the falcons.

One of the rules for this forum is respect the other users. Yet due to the fact that you're a miami dolphins fan, you won't get banned or warned for calling us bums. Double standards, that's the word.

I expected homers here but seriously? I thought Dallas Cowboy homers were the worst but there is a new standard in Miami Thunder. You should be proud, son.

seriously?
Roddy White is holding out simply because he wants more money...money for an elite level WR. After seeing deals like larry fitz i dont blame him

Look at boldin..he too wants a similar deal and what do you know, the cardinals were in the SUPERBOWL

You signed your guys for league min because thats what they are for gods sake...theyre no name guys who overperform (theres nothing wrong with that).

Real MVP ? Who? Pennington? Come on son...if anything I would put Ronnie Brown over pennington

Just wow..im in shock right now

Blank eh...too bad hes a billionaire owner of Home Depot, arena football teams, owns part of a nascar team and owns the falcons

So come on man...just chill out

You are ridiculous to think that the reason Roddy White is holding out is because he's playing for the falcons. The NFL is a business. These guys become NFL players to make money and not win superbowls. Open your eyes.

Slums of Atlanta. Another disrespectful insult to not only us but the entire city of Atlanta. Please moderators. Stop making this guy make not only phins.com look bad, not just miami look back, but the entire state of Florida look bad.

Parting note: Before you ban anyone, just look at who's been truly disrespectful during these conversations / arguments. We wanted a nice civilized place to talk football and we succeeded when we were able to argue with esti but ever since this guy came out, things were blown out of proportion due to his ridiculous claims, outright disrespect and insults.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2009 08:48PM by Bmoretildeath.

Come to our site call us HOMERS? and expect me to not say anything like calling somone a bum? Have you been to Atlanta? Im deff not your son lol. Well instead of leaving the site you insist on comming on and making arguments, then get mad at somone for trying to shew you off! Again no one is here making you post here? Leave the site go over glorify your team to other fans. The moderators on here are awsome! Again dont like us,or the moderators, or anything about us then stop comming here, sure you welcomed but realy? I dont like people saying there team is going to beat ours. To get the truth from your guts, i have to be a arrogant no nonsense bulldog. Apparantly it worked. The poster child for illiteracy is finished! Be gone! TAKE THE STINK WITH YOU!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2009 09:03PM by MiamiThunder.

vengeance bird Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you guys will run all over us?
> really? I mean come on...why didn't legit running
> teams full out run all over us last year?
>
> As in carolina, minnesota, etc...
>
> Add in Jerry in the middle and I can't say I'm too
> afraid
>
> And besides Matt Ryan will pick your secondary
> apart, aswell as turner just pounding away at your
> "godly" defense
>
> Just as you can't see us winning
> I Have no idea how I can see you guys winning
>
> Homer pride? I don't think so, the falcons are the
> better team
>
> Annnnnnnd...we're at home
> CASE CLOSED

If games were played on paper only we wouldn't need an NFL season. Last preseason who the heck saw us beating up on NE in our first meeting? There is no such thing as "CASE CLOSED" in the NFL. NFL seasons are anything but predictable.

It will be interesting to see if Matt Ryan can pick our secondary apart. We will very likely have one of the top 3 secondaries in the league in a few years.

Of course football can't be played on paper or stats alone...this is just preseason hype and the only thing to back us up until the season starts are the stats and numbers

I for one generally hate stats because in football all that matters is getting the W at the end of the day.

But just as vengeance assumed ryan will pick apart your secondary, you assume the dolphins secondary will be in the top 3...so I say we ALL just wait for the season begins before anyone has too much crow on their plate to eat

Anyone saying that Miami used the "Wildcat" offense last year as a main stay in their scheme, after the Pats game, didn't really watch each Dolphin game. Which makes sense, as most people stating this are nay-sayers and haters. In most games I watched, the Wildcat offense package was used sparingly, with varying success. At no time did I see a team that relied on the Wildcat to succeed in order to win the game. It was used as a change up, and if I remember correctly, was used successfully averaging a decent net yards per play.

As for Chad Pennington, hate all you like. The man is low key, does his job, and likes to win. In fact, and you can check this, every time CP has started 10 or more games in a season, they go to the playoffs.

AAAAAAAAAnnndd we're done.

I think you said it perfectly and that's exactly what I've been saying

the big question is how will pat white throw the ball

if he ends up being accurate, then I can see the wildcat working out the way you all claim it to be...the only thing is, Mike Vick was in a similar situation and he couldn't take advantage of those 1 v 1 matchups with a wideout of the caliber of roddy white. Michael Vick was not a great passer and so teams simply let him air it out and try to beat them that way. Other than a few memorable games where he succeeded: Pittsburgh one comes to mind.. Michael vick could not win games with his arm

This is why I don't believe at the time being that Pat White will put too much fear into teams into respecting the pass. As you said the reason teams stopped the wildcat is because they weren't afraid of the pass, they simply went for the run each time. I'm not sure Pat White will scare them anymore. I mean Mike Vick was an actual QB aswell but teams weren't afraid of being beaten by his arm.

We'll see how it turns out...I'll be hoping Pat White can do it after week 1. I'm just speaking from experience on how frustrating it was with Mike Vick airing it out.

vengeance bird Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ill eat any crow that comes my way but I doubt it
> happens week 1

Thats what they all say.

>
> Ginn could maybe be like White but White did show
> promise in each of his years. He had the speed,
> strength and had the ability to get open, he didnt
> know how to catch til his third year for some
> reason. Once he did he broke out

Because it was his 3rd year and that's when it usually happens.

The fact is that Ginn has outperformed White through their first two years so he has shown more promise than white. Ginn had 1210 yards and White only had 952 yards over two years...

> I do not see this in Ginn. He may be explosive at
> times but he does not consistently create
> seperation or cant make a catch over the middle

I seriously doubt you have seen Ginn as much as I or any other Dolphin fans so your "insight" or lack thereof is skewed toward your player.


> which is why I dont put him in the same class as
> roddy
>
> sorry

You are blinded by your own nepotism. facts are facts. Through the first two years Ginn has shown more promise than White did.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Yes but Roddy White exploded due to the fact that he got a new quarterback throwing to him in Matt Ryan.

Before someone said that Miami has a top 3 secondary. They ranked 25th in passing yards allowed last year and lost Andre Goodman.

The comparison to Anthony Gonzalez is overlooked as he has the best QB in the league throwing to him (sorry Tom Brady) and in his first seasons, he was only the 3rd option. Gonzalez is maturing the way White is because Harrison is gone.

Many people are taking what we're saying the wrong way when we talk about the wildcat. We never said it was a "main stay" in the offensive schemes and you ran it every 3 play. I don't know where you got that impression.

And we later said that we are impressed about how successful Chad Pennington is with a weak arm when he is competing against the Jamarcus Russell's of the league who can throw 60 yards on their knees. Please, actually read what we're writing to make sure you don't take it the wrong way and we waste time arguing the same topics.

why is it nobody wants to accept the fact that most WR's break out in their third year. Not everyone is Randy Moss or Anquan Boldin. Most take time to develop.

The credit for Roddy Whites improvement cannot be given to Matt Ryan. White had his breakout season of 1200 yards the year before Ryan was even drafted. IT WAS HIS THIRD YEAR.

I don't know where the top 3 secondary claim came from. Yes we were not good last year but got much much better toward the end of the season. We drastically upgraded in the off-season and should be much improved. Top 3? I don't know about that but top 10 potentially.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I agree most wrs break out 3rd year..but when you say break out do you mean suddenly become elite level WR? Because most receivers don't suddenly become elite like roddy

Roddy White is a rare WR, not every receiver picked in the 1st round will blossom in their 3rd year

It could happen, it may not...as I keep saying we are just speculating, no one knows what will happen or how ginn will turn out

To the poster that said ginn has shown more in his first 2 years than roddys...I beg to differ

First of all he had vick throwing to him...no ones numbers will look pretty with vick

Second, roddy showed everything an elite WR needs EXCEPT for actually holding onto the ball when the pressure was on, once he got a QB beside vick he was able to hold onto the ball and broke out. You can't call it a fluke...everyone on our team was catching everything compared to the vick years of dropped passes all over. Vicks laser beam arm was the problem. With average QBs that year, harrington, redman, etc... roddy finally was able to hold onto the balls and finally prove his worth. So did jenkins aswell, who was also know for dropping passes from vick.

> Roddy White is a rare WR, not every receiver picked in the 1st round will blossom in their 3rd year

Have to agree. Roddy white was an incredible receiver even in college. I htink he played at UAB, thus not a lot of visibility , but he was a game breaker for an otherwise weak team.

I do think that the FINS will see much improved success in both secondary and WR this year, but more so because of new talent in the secondary, good coaching, and 3rd year for wrs, + much improved OL.

Roddy White was a raw talent upgrade via draft much like our secondary additions will hopefully be.

Ginn was expected to be the same type of raw talent upgrade. He has yet to stasnd out in that fashion (to me). I do expect him to this year, but he didn't make the kind of flash up front for the fins that Roddy white did for Atlanta.

Ginn started playing WR late in his career. I will give him props for how he is developing so far.

They say that the third year is the charm. We will see what happens.

I say ginn will have 1300 yards with 9 TDs receiving.

I think you can take away Glenn Dorsey from that list because of his contract dispute and his overall lazyness regarding playing in the NFL.

The falcons offense did get better but their defense is worse. The loss of Michael Boley, Foxworth, Brooking will show. You replaced one of those linebackers with Peterson but that is barely an upgrade from Brooking. His talent doesn't compare to Boley's.

The loss of Milloy will not affect the defense as much as many people think. He wasn't the playmaker he use to be when he played in Buffalo (I think).

1-teams did run through us til they hit the redzone, at that point they were put to a halt and forced to kick field goals, this was a key to our success last year

2-our "best run stopper" was in and out of games. Babineaux is actually developing into a great penetrating DT and can cause disturbance in the backfield. The thing with Mike Smiths system, is that we constantly have a rotation of players on the line in order to keep them fresh. Sure we may not have superstars on the line but were full of high character/high motor guys, who will give it 110% any time it is their turn in the rotation. Unlike Grady who would crumble at the end of games. So we shall see, I have full trust in the falcon's organization and especially TD our gm who has worked wonders so far.

3-you say joey porter and jason taylor will be all over ryan? I beg to differ, nearly the whole NFL underestimates our oline. We were amongst the top in the NFL in least sacks allowed, I'm not sure the exact number but we were in the top 10 I believe.

4-we lost old vets, the only one I feel we will truly miss is milloy but even he got burned even more so than the rookies out there, so I can't say I don't understand the decision. Brooking was a liability at linebacker and cost us the game against the cards in the wildcard (3 and 16, he bites on the play action). Grady as mentioned earlier got tired and showed a lack of heart at the end of games. All of these guys were just living off the success they had maybe 4-5 years ago. They are now too old or too slow to compete. The NFL is a business and so we must cut the old guys and in with the new.

5-Finally, the offense will be fine this year. Top 10 material atleast. The defense will prove people wrong by overperforming and buying into the new falcon's system. we're a young team that builds off momentum, so once we start going, you better watch out.

will be a good home opener...

True about Milloy but he was still the best safety they had. William Moore may be a good pick but are they using him at free or strong? The depth chart says free but he is a better fit at SS. That still leaves holes at CB and S and LB and D-line. Milloy offered leadership which is something that is missing.

You can't take away Dorsey because you just never know what your gonna get and that's the point. Jerry may be the next Warren Sap or he may be the next Ryan Sims....who you can add to the list of highly touted underachievers as well.

The Ravens have a very good personnel department (Ozzie) so they will be fine. They really only had one down year to rebound from and have just never had a franchise QB which they may have finally found.

Ozzie is an excellent GM but just has not had a good eye for QB talent. Maybe they got lucky with Flacco but if you don't find a WR, the offense is going to be one sided and they will stack the line with 8 in the box and stifle a good running game.

Miami totally retooled and were coming off of several bad season and many poor drafts dating back to 2000 when Wanny was in control. We have had two very good off seasons but that is where Atlanta differs.

They did not follow up on the great off season they had before the 08 season. It is starting to make 08 look like luck. Most QB's cannot come into the league and be successful right away. Ryan was good and they were very fortunate for that. Baker also turned out to be a good pick but the rest of that draft remains to be seen. Ryan was surrounded by some good talent which helped.

They already had a pretty good line and adding Ryan, Turner and Baker made their season. Adding Gonzo will make the offense better but they are too one side to have consistent success. That's why I see a drop off this year for them.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Yes but saying a rookie like Moore will come and take the spot of a leader like Milloy is an obvious drop-off.

He is obviously a rare physical talent that can erupt at any time the way Mario Williams but you have to question his will. Apparently, he went through a 5-day physical or something and barely passed. I don't care how good you are, if your not ready to play, you won't play.

We've been looking for a QB ever since the great Trent Dilfer. To watch Kyle Boller mature was heartbreaking and when I look back at the players who were picked after him and where they are now, I can only wonder. Flacco is finally the franchise QB we've been looking for and a player that we could build around.

It's not a good WR that we need as much as a fast WR. Until Mason retires, he'll be that possession guy but we need to asses that need in next year's draft. Many people wanted us to trade for Boldin, Marshall or Edwards but that would require new contracts for each of them and it would make it very difficult to resign Ngata, Grubbs and Gaither. I personally would much rather sign these beasts than a diva WR that could only disrupt the team chemistry.

Both Miami's and Atlanta's coming to power are quite similar. Starting with the front office, but added quite known people in Parcells and Dimitroff to lead their teams. Then, a QB was found yet a solid running game was the emphasize of the offense. The difference like Eesti said is that Atlanta's past offseason is not one to be proud of.

Yep 27-13 Miami over Atlanta!! The true coach and mvp of last year will show up and dominate.

eesti you say ryan, turner and baker made our season...baker didn't play much for he was hurt

and so far that draft is looking very promising, you seem to forget curtis lofton 2nd in defensive rookie of the year voting. The guy is an animal of a man and is an anchor to our defensive. Many overlook him for reasons I do not know of other than perhaps his speed. We also have Thomas decoud at safety from last years draft...he's getting great reviews from camp so far. What about harry douglas, sure the goes out this year cause of an ACL but that guy was also a key cog to the team. In my mind last years draft was incredible, everyone of those guys helped the team out and will help the team out in the future.

Your naming a bunch of guys who's names will not end up on sports center or pro bowl little if any. Serious stop with your wishful thinking! STOP IT! Your living in a fantasy world, high on the success of one year? Yeah you got one solid pick up in offseason THATS IT Tony Gonzalez! Your team will not make playoffs this year, unless they win the division there in, which i dont see happening, but your team could! Up in the air!! Your team however will not stop the wildcat, will not stop Pennington, and your belovid Ryan will be sacked at least twice that game. 27-13 and after that loss your team might not come back to even venture over 9 wins! Baltimore will end up 9/7.

boleys play dropped off last year

the one guy we''l miss is foxworth, that guy is solid but he wanted more money

wow miamithunder, intelligent and well thought out post

Thanks

dielan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree most wrs break out 3rd year..but when you
> say break out do you mean suddenly become elite
> level WR? Because most receivers don't suddenly
> become elite like roddy

3 years is not suddenly, its a steady development. Roddy did not suddenly become elite. It took him 3 years. He had the speed and talent to do it but it took him time to learn the game.

> Roddy White is a rare WR, not every receiver
> picked in the 1st round will blossom in their 3rd
> year

True, I never said every WR would but I have watched Ginn in every single game and read reports on him daily. He has had steady improvement. Last year coaches said he still needed work. This year they are saying he is noght and day from this time last year.

> It could happen, it may not...as I keep saying we
> are just speculating, no one knows what will
> happen or how ginn will turn out
>
> To the poster that said ginn has shown more in his
> first 2 years than roddys...I beg to differ

The numbers don't lie. Ginn outperformed him and has never had drop problems. He has great hands but is just now learning how to run routes and get separation. So just how did White outperform Ginn in his first two years? based on what? production is all that matters. What he looked good almost catching the ball? makes no sense.

> First of all he had vick throwing to him...no ones
> numbers will look pretty with vick
>
> Second, roddy showed everything an elite WR needs
> EXCEPT for actually holding onto the ball when the
> pressure was on, once he got a QB beside vick he
> was able to hold onto the ball and broke out. You
> can't call it a fluke...everyone on our team was
> catching everything compared to the vick years of
> dropped passes all over. Vicks laser beam arm was
> the problem. With average QBs that year,
> harrington, redman, etc... roddy finally was able
> to hold onto the balls and finally prove his
> worth. So did jenkins aswell, who was also know
> for dropping passes from vick.

Your excuse is that he wasn't good because Vick threw too hard? That's not a ringing endorsement. WR's catch the ball. I didn't see Duper and Clayton, Rod Smith, Antonio Freeman or Sterling Sharp being held back because the ball was thrown too hard.

Roddy was finally able to hold on to the ball? I thought he suddenly turned elite? He turned the corner because he was at the point to do so. The point where the light comes on...3rd year.

So it wasn't the fact that White had a good QB throwing to him but because Ryan didn't throw so hard? that's a lame argument.

Look at Ginns QB's in his first year. John Beck and Cleo Lemon and an old Trent Green.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

dielan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti you say ryan, turner and baker made our
> season...baker didn't play much for he was hurt

Ok so Baker did not make the season but the other two and an existing, already good oline did. I was including him b/c he was able to come in later and contribute and break into the starting lineup.
>
> and so far that draft is looking very promising,
> you seem to forget curtis lofton 2nd in defensive
> rookie of the year voting. The guy is an animal
> of a man and is an anchor to our defensive. Many
> overlook him for reasons I do not know of other
> than perhaps his speed.

I think Lofton is going to be good player but 97 tackles, 1 FF and 1 sack is not a monster season for a rookie LB, Zach Thomas had a monster rookie season with 120 tackles, 2 sacks, 3 ints, 2 FF's, 2 FR and 1 TD. If the DT's can't keep guards off him, he is in for a long season.

We also have Thomas
> decoud at safety from last years draft...he's
> getting great reviews from camp so far. What
> about harry douglas, sure the goes out this year
> cause of an ACL but that guy was also a key cog to
> the team. In my mind last years draft was
> incredible, everyone of those guys helped the team
> out and will help the team out in the future.

I still don't see it but I was talking more about this off season. You still have many holes on defense. You have two DT's with pass rush ability but what are they going to do against the run? Beside you don't even know if Jerry is going to produce or start? What about CB's? You need 3 or 4 good ones and you have how many?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2009 01:06PM by eesti.