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          Getting #1
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 22, 2020 07:37PM

You're just flapping your gums. What point of yours have I failed to address????? Point...not conclusion or opinion.

I have addressed your argument that we should draft a lineman over a QB. I've addressed your drop-down suggestion.

What are you talking about??

Or....are YOU the one just flapping your gums?

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 23, 2020 03:28AM

I gave specif facts , history that actually back what I say. I know you feel strongly that we must have a QB , any QB with the first pick or else we are doomed. Only QB's drafted in the Top ten will be successful. Or MORE likely to be .

I've shown why thats not true. Not just an opinion but factually and historically Great QB's are found else where in the draft.

All you can say is that Brady is the exception. I've shown that conclusively HE IS NOT. He is more of the RULE.

I'm waiting for you to PROVE your point, not just make one.

I see you are getting upset again. Thats happens when you cant make a point. So rather then start behaviors that will get us both removed , please just dont answer if you cant do so in a intelligent and respectful manner.

Do you agree again Sam? Or do you have a point of your own? Ever?

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 23, 2020 05:57AM

I think i made my point a long time ago. Draft a qb high in the first round until you hit on one....maybe you can comprehend that and stop wanting to drop down to draft a bunch of olineman and dlineman in the 6th and 7th round.

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 23, 2020 08:57AM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think i made my point a long time ago. Draft a
> qb high in the first round until you hit on
> one....maybe you can comprehend that and stop
> wanting to drop down to draft a bunch of olineman
> and dlineman in the 6th and 7th round.


Thats a statement. yes you have made that clear . I know thats what you wish. But other then that being your preference you have failed to prove why thats the better option.

The best QBs in History have been found at the end of the 1st round or in the later rounds. Brady isnt the exception. Peyton Manning is.

Dropping back and waiting to pick with #18 is a much smarter option for us unless we decide to go for Burrows who is the only startable QB in this draft.

And even if we went for broke and picked Burrows (which I'm not against) We still need to build a team around him so he doesn't fail here like our last Top 10 QB who is now in the position of winning a SB.

And where did I say anything about drafting linemen in the 6th and 7th? We drop down we get more 1st and 2nd round picks. we could have 4 first rounders and 3 2nd rounders! Maybe add a third 1st rounder to next years draft. Open your eyes and mind son!! Geez.........

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 23, 2020 09:10AM

Yes i have explained why. The only qb we drafted in the first round since marino retired was tannehill and look in the mess we are in today 25 years later. Even a 2 year old can understand that. Maybe you can too.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 23, 2020 09:32AM

And dont tell me we havent tried to upgrade the Oline and dLINE THROUGH THE DRAFT BECAUSE WE HAVE DRAFTed MANY FOR THE oline and dline every year for 25 years or more.


If you dont score points you do not win period. We coudlnd score since marino retired because every qb we had since him are scrubs yes including tannehill.

Until we fix the qb problem on this team we will continue to struggle.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: March 23, 2020 09:41AM

I wish to make just one point....Tannehill did not stink with Miami. All one has to do is look at his stats. He did a good job, despite being under constant pressure from the opposing defense.

He did a "turnaround" at Tenn, only because he had a good OLine and a running game to take the pressure off.

If he had a good OLine in front of him at Miami, he would still be there!

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 23, 2020 11:44AM

Decades ago, the Dolphins used to run the Wildcat when it was a hot item in the NFL. I hated it. But it was years before Tanny and would have been perfect for him.

Folks, it's more complex then is he a good or bad QB. It's a question of the scheme. Tanny played in one scheme in high school, college and the Titans and succeeded in all.

He played in a different scheme with the Dolphins and failed. It WASN'T either him or the linemen. It was the scheme. Why can't I get that through to you guys?

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 23, 2020 11:56AM

Ok he didnt completely stunk. But when he had to make a play to win a game ...he didn't. Because everybody around him had to play at pro bowl level in order for us to win.

Tennessee is going to find that out the hard way.

They already had a glimpse of his talent when the played kansas city. He is too limited...and he cant take the players around him on offense to play at the next level.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 23, 2020 01:15PM

That's him playing average Sam. Put him back in a pro set offense and you will see the Dolphin Tannehill.

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 23, 2020 01:49PM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok he didnt completely stunk.
>
>


That's refreshing Sam. thumbs upAnd you know what? Wanting a new face of the team , someone to root for again isnt a bad thing either.Lets just agree to disagree that he can only be found in the Top ten picks of the draft.


Tennessee is going to find that out the hard way.


Lol. The Titans beat the Chiefs in Regular season. Lost by 11 points because thier defense lost it at the end of the game. Tannehill played well enough to win. Well enough to make him one of the highest paid QBs in the NFL today.

And yes he does need the players around him to play well to win. ALL NFL PLAYERS DO. That's what makes champions. Bob Griese didnt even play for half of the perfect season. That TEAM won it. It's why Dan the man has nothing.

But I get it Sam. I havnt bought a Miami Dolphins team jersey in yrs becuase we havnt had any players worthy , that and I hate the new logo, but you get my drift. I was starting to get that feeling about Laundry and then GASE hole trades him.

So heres to getting a New face of the Franchise.....I just think he can be found out of the Top 10 as well. That's all.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 23, 2020 04:33PM

Tsk, tsk, tsk. The further back in the draft you draft a player, the lesser the odds that you get the best at that position.

The lotteries in the nation remain in business because there are enough people who believe that despite the fantastic odds against them PERSONALLY winning, they just MIGHT win when buying a single ticket.

But you don't COUNT on it. Husbands who spend the family's monthly salary on the lotto deservedly catch hell from their wives.

The draft is different from the lottery.

The odds ARE NOT THAT HIGH.

BUT STILL, the best players are usually those drafted the higher.

BUT REALLY, TREASURE IS TURNING THIS AROUND, Sam. He first argued that we needed linemen more desperately than a quarterback.

Just look over the comments on the board since this dispute began. Silence is sometimes deafening.

Although no other posters but me and you have attacked that position,......NEITHER HAS ANY OTHER POSTER JUMPED IN and specifically agreed that we should use the overall number 5 pick on a lineman, offense or defense.

So now he's trying to slide and say that we can pick a lineman at number 5 AND STILL get a top 5 quarterback at the end of the 1st round or beginning of the second.

He used to say that we can get maybe the third or fourth overall RATED QB later in the first round but not at the end of it.

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 23, 2020 04:58PM

"BUT STILL, the best players are usually those drafted the higher."

********************************************************

Here is the question you keep ignoring that I refer to:


Then why did ALL the Best in the Biz get drafted near the end of the first or in later rounds?



> Dan Marino was almost a second rounder.
>
> Brett Favre, 2nd Round, 1991
>
> Joe Montana end of the third round ,
> practically a 4th rounder
>
> Drew Brees, 2nd Round, 2001
>
> Roger Staubach, 10th Round, 1964
>
> Lamar Jackson was #32 almost a second rounder
>
> Russell Wilson 3rd Round
>
> Matt Hasselbeck, 6th Round, 1998
>
> Rich Gannon, 4th Round, 1987
>
> Aaron Rodgers 24th overall
>
> Joe Flacco 18th overall
>
>


Lamar Jackson is pretty frigging good. Was on no ones radar. Its not just Tom Brady. Even our Own Ryan Fitz was a 7th rounder.


Wheres Andrew Luck, Robert Griffen III? No insults please. Feel free to just disagree. But I challenge you to dig deep and explain why picking higher in the draft makes a player better?

drinking smiley

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 23, 2020 06:23PM

Why didn't you say the name Bob Greise? He was drafted second overall as I remember AFTER another QB, Steve Spurrier as I remember?

And why are you so nasty in asking for a response. I have no idea how you have kept a badge so long unless you have already lost it and just won't admit it.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 24, 2020 05:40AM

Tcpf doesnt believe in odds.

Same thing as saying...he doesnt believe in common sense.

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 24, 2020 07:07AM

OK. I tried. You guys obviously cant be challenged to give a factual intelligent response to a factual and intelligent question.

I laid out history , and actual reasons for the way I feel about the topic. You cant. You won't even try.....and again you seem to get frustrated and go to name calling and attacking my profession. A Profession that is going through one of the hardest times in modern history.

Its all good. I'm dissapointed in you Sam. I believe your better then this.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 24, 2020 09:00AM

When did i attack your profession?

Its the truth and common sense dictates that the odds are better when its a higher pick.

Let me ask you a question tcpf.

If they give you a choice of picking 4th overall with out a chance of tading down...or 10th overall? And you had to pick one of them? Which of the two would you pick?

4th overall? Or 10th overall?

That should answer your question that chren has been trying for you to understand.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 24, 2020 09:03AM

And yes....not one person in the universe would pick 10th.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 24, 2020 09:07AM

I know cops or doctors and nurses firemen..rescue workers have the hardest jobs in these hard times we are going through.

And i respect that.

I would never say something bad about them.

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 24, 2020 10:15AM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know cops or doctors and nurses firemen..rescue
> workers have the hardest jobs in these hard times
> we are going through.
>
> And i respect that.
>
> I would never say something bad about them.


Thank you brother. And that's why I still consider you a good friend.
friend.Recuerda que aquĆ­ estoy para cualquier cosa que necesites. - Gracias, amigo.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 24, 2020 10:23AM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When did i attack your profession?
>
> Its the truth and common sense dictates that the
> odds are better when its a higher pick.
>
> Let me ask you a question tcpf.
>
> If they give you a choice of picking 4th overall
> with out a chance of tading down...or 10th
> overall? And you had to pick one of them? Which of
> the two would you pick?
>
> 4th overall? Or 10th overall?
>


Heres the thing. That's only a valuable position if you have the players worthy to pick that high.

If you have $50,000 to spend on a car, and you see one that you like for $25,000......do you still pay $50,000?

What if 6 other people want it? Do you tell the dealership to give it to you for $50,000?


Now say a Ferrari like Burrows is available.......one of a kind......its almost worth spending the $50,000 and financing the rest.



Have to be smarter. Have to end up with the better car. Not the shitty car and debt.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2020 10:23AM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 24, 2020 10:30AM

But you want us to pay rhat high price for a tractor or a lawn mower, Treasure.

The high price is a valuable high draft choice and when you trade down, you're still using it, You're just giving it away.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 24, 2020 10:51AM

And trading the high draft pick for a much lower pick is still giving it away. It's just giving it up for more lower items.

And I didn't attack law enforcement. Prosecutors are law enforcement too. I spent 30 years as a Deputy Attorney General and was the office's death penalty case Coordinator. What I questioned is that with your nasty temperament whether it got you disciplined.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 24, 2020 11:41AM

But tcpf by your own logic we can find valuable olinemen and dlinemen in the later rounds.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 24, 2020 11:44AM

There is only one position qb. There are 5 positions dline and 5 oline. To me the qb position is the hardest one to find. Thats why we need the high pick with better odds of hitting on one.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 24, 2020 11:49AM

And we will not pick 3 or more qbs in one years draft. But teams have picked 3 or more oline players in one draft. Which means the more players you draft at same position the more chances to hit on a couple.

I dont think a team has ever drafted 3 qbs in ome draft.

2 yes i believe so.

But not 3.

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 24, 2020 11:50AM

Good luck, Sam, and I don't mean Andrew.

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 24, 2020 12:31PM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is only one position qb. There are 5
> positions dline and 5 oline. To me the qb position
> is the hardest one to find. Thats why we need the
> high pick with better odds of hitting on one.



In this NFL there is definitely some chance involved. Even for Burrows. But you can make educated guesses. If they are set on a guy and hes available, then allright sllright allright. I'm down brother! This year is different from the past because we never needed a new QB he was always there waiting for an Oline and some defense.

This year is different. We dont have a long term option now. But we do have options. This 5th rounder is very valuable to us. We need to hit on it and hard. We cant just pick or over value some scrub for the hell of it.

Grabbing a kid at 5 that should have been a low 1st, maybe a 2nd wont make him a better QB.

Over drafting is almost as bad as a bust becuase you have to also pay Top 5 money to sign a possible bench warmer.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Getting #1
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 24, 2020 01:21PM

"should have been" a low first????

If you put "according to the experts" behind that phrase then you may not turn out to be right but at least you have an arguABLE point.

But pardon me if I don't consider you an expert. If fact, I don't even consider you to be objective.

You just want to keep us FROM drafting 5 QB that will turn out to be good.

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Re: Getting #1
Date: March 24, 2020 02:24PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "should have been" a low first????
>
> If you put "according to the experts" behind that
> phrase then you may not turn out to be right but
> at least you have an arguABLE point.
>
> But pardon me if I don't consider you an expert.
> If fact, I don't even consider you to be
> objective.
>
> You just want to keep us FROM drafting 5 QB that
> will turn out to be good.


If you have no factual information or anything intelligent to add without insults I'm asking you to please refrain from posting at all. Some people want to discuss football and the Miami Dolphins here. Thank you.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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