rafael Wrote:
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Right now I wouldn't trade Bess
> for Welker straight up based on the skills they
> currently have, potential, age and salary.

Exactly. I agree.

Completely ridiculous to compare a guy in his 4th year to a rookie.

Compare Welker's rookie year with Bess. Bess had a much more productive rookie year, not even close. Clearly Bess is a better rookie than Welker was.

Does this make Bess a better WR? Who knows. As of now, I'd rather have Bess. Welker is getting old.

Welker is only 28

I didn't say he was old, only getting old. You should learn to read what people write. Otherwise, you might get owned again and have to start breaking out that word that rhymes with Yahtzee.

Anyways, I can't help you if you don't understand why having an expensive, small, speed WR pushing 30 is not a good thing. Welker is not Jerry Rice.

I'd rather have a cheap speed WR who had a better rookie year and will only improve.

yeah I read it. And 28 isn't getting old. Actually its his "prime"

ghotirule Wrote:
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> I didn't say he was old, only getting old. You
> should learn to read what people write.
> Otherwise, you might get owned again and have to
> start breaking out that word that rhymes with
> Yahtzee.


sORRY MIKE.........................rotflmao.

I'm sorry..."far better"?!?!

I would lump both of their production (2008-Bess & 2006-Welker) into the 'meh' (said while shrugging shoulders) category.

However, Welker did that in his 4th year, 2nd with the team. He had been training at an NFL level for 4 years and caught 29 balls for 15 YPC (his best ever by far) the previous year. Their YPC for the years in question were identical at 10.3.

Yes we had worse QB play that year. But, Welker has been consistently a 10.3 - 10.5 YPC guy the last three years.

Bess on the other hand was one of 7 player on the Phins with between 29 and 56 catches. Do you think that might have had something to do with the idea that Pennington spreads the ball around purposely?

Seriously, they do the same thing. Their skillset is the same. Their size & speed are basically the same. I actually love what both of them bring. Bess is younger and the only things I think Welker actually does better are easily coachable. Diving forward for a couple extra yards comes to mind.

You may have READ it, but you didn't GET it.

1. Miami WRs took a backseat last year to OL and to defensive secondary this year.

- In terms of team need priority, it is a decision I agree with.

2. This year we have a lot of talented WRs to defend within the conference and on the schedule.

- We will be "owned" as the expression is frequently used in this forum, if we didn't address that area.

3. I do believe there is a chance that our WR corp will play much better (despite the modest new additions)

- Maturity of those we have. About the right time for the ones we have to make it or break it. They know it too.
- Chemistry of another year with Sparano, and with pennington
- Competition at the WR poition is going to be good.
- The size and mobility of a couple of new taller Wrs is going to open up the fade route and other possesion routes.
- Better OL

4. Add to these passing factors, and improved OL running game, more talent in the wildcat and the passing game benefits.

******

Having said all that either Bess, Camarillo or Ginn have a breakput year or there will be a big name addition next year. The new kids may step up, but don't expect to see a #1 out of that group.

i have heard that ernest wilford has been working as a possible tight end. i think he would possibly be a good fit, and you could still keep 6 wrs.in my opinion i think they should be ginn,bess,camarillo,london,armstrong,turner.

I think it all boils down to upside and potential. The WR's with the most potential IMO are Ted Ginn and Anthony Armstrong followed by London but he seems to be further away from realizing that potential and may be the odd man out.

We seem to have many receivers with the same skill set or potential level.

Greg Camarillo, Davone Bess, Brian Hartline, Jeremy London and Patrick Turner are the possession type of receivers. Hartline may be the fastest of the bunch and offer a little more ability to stretch the field a bit more. This is yet to be seen but I think he will stick and has the makeup the coaching staff likes....smart, tough, hard working and can play ST's.

A couple of these players remind me of an OJ McDuffie type of player. Not real fast or big but runs good routes and knows how to get separation and make plays. Davone Bess is almost identical in size to OJ. Bess is 5'10 190. McD was 5'10 and 194. I can see Bess having a career similar to the one OJ had...

Ginn and Armstrong are the only down-field threats we currently have. If somehow we can get these two on the field at the same time, we would really open things up and make life difficult for DB's. The thing is they are both smaller receivers and may do better at Flanker where they don't have to face the jam as much.

I still see Ginn at Flanker, Cam at Split End and Bess in the slot with Turner coming in on 3rd downs and goal line situations.

One possible scenario could be Ginn at Fl, Cam at SE and Armstrong in the slot because he is a more explosive player and is more quick than Ginn who seems to be a long strider.

I could also see Turner playing Split End.

I still see the top six being....

Ginn
Camarillo
Armstrong
Bess
Turner
Hartline

and...at TE

Fasano, Martin and Wilford with Wilford playing in more of an H-back role.

There is also still the possibility that there is a WR out there that gets cut late in the off season around the 53 man trim down but is better than our 5th or 6th guy.

I have a hard time believing that our FO would let Turner or Hartline slip because they are so young and have undiscovered potential.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I think Hartline will end up on the practice squad. That may give London a spot, or maybe not. I'm anxious to see how they use Pat White. He could play some WR in a pinch as well.

I think we're going to see a lot of Turner as the season progresses. From what I've heard, he's cut in the mold of Oronde Gadsden. Gadsden wasn't fast, nor did he run perfect routes, but he certainly caught a lot of TDs for us!

i wish we would one day get back to having receivers like duper and clayton. to me they were the best. i think ginn/bess could do it, and this is supposed to be ginn's breakout year.

One last coment on the Bess / Welker comparison:

Beyond the aforementioned:

1. Rookie vs. experienced (or agining as some like) or even in prime as others see it .
2. Beyond the salary differences (net value comparison)

Not mentioned is that the system around welker is perfectly tuned for his success.

1. Awesome number 1 & 2 receivers
2. Prolific QB
3. Primary possession / short game - game plan

*******

My point is that given an equal playing field so to speak. Bess has a lot of upside:

1. Equal or Better value (cost vs. performance)
2. Will get better when the other receivers and the team improve
3. Will get even better when the OL and running game hit its groove (this year)