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          No Excuses Gase
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Re: No Excuses Gase
Date: May 28, 2018 07:54AM

All-righty then.....You blame who you want to then. Whatever makes you feel better. thumbs up

But if we make the playoffs and have a decent showing I hope you know who thank as well.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: May 28, 2018 10:13AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All-righty then.....You blame who you want to
> then. Whatever makes you feel better. thumbs up
>
> But if we make the playoffs and have a decent
> showing I hope you know who thank as well.


If we do, I'll be the first to say I was wrong. I've said that. You and I want the same thing we just disagree on whether the people in charge are doing the right things to get us there. It's all good. I hope you're right. If not, hopefully there will be changes made that will finally put this team on the right track. Time will tell.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 28, 2018 11:09AM

"But I guess when your gonna garantee a huge chunk of salary cap....you want a player that can play smart as well as athletic."

This where I have a problem with this whole salary thing. I don't believe that Gase took into account FOR ONE SECOND what Landry would have been making. It is someone else's job to worry about that. He's a coach, and all a coach cares about is if this particular player can help him win. That's all. That's it. So, he believed that he could win without Landry. Let's hope he is right.

Rick

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 28, 2018 12:10PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Date: May 28, 2018 05:59PM

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "But I guess when your gonna garantee a huge chunk
> of salary cap....you want a player that can play
> smart as well as athletic."
>
> This where I have a problem with this whole salary
> thing. I don't believe that Gase took into account
> FOR ONE SECOND what Landry would have been making.
> It is someone else's job to worry about that. He's
> a coach, and all a coach cares about is if this
> particular player can help him win. That's all.
> That's it. So, he believed that he could win
> without Landry. Let's hope he is right.



For the record I want to say again this move I dont agree with. I loved Landrys passion, his play making ability......but yes as a coach I dont think he liked him from a teamwork perspective.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: May 29, 2018 04:31AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I don't believe that Gase took into account FOR
> ONE SECOND what Landry would have been making. It
> is someone else's job to worry about that. He's a
> coach, and all a coach cares about is if this
> particular player can help him win. That's all.
> That's it. So, he believed that he could win
> without Landry. Let's hope he is right."
>
> That's all he SHOULD care about. Winning that is.
> I don't know what went on BEHIND THE SCENES with
> either Landry or Ajayi.
>
> I just know before they were let go, they were a)
> (With Ajayi) giving us a bull headed running game
> like we have not had since the old days and b)
> (with Landry) even with Tannehill, to me not a
> passing QB but more of a run option QB, he seemed
> to be bringing our passing game out of the
> dumpster last year, in both cases, Gase got rid of
> them over personalities.
>
> I just can't help but think that there must have
> been a "behind the scenes" way of handling those
> so that a less drastic option than getting rid of
> them could have been employed.
>
> I know I criticized Philbin for trying to force
> Tannehill into being a pocket QB but that was one
> player. Gase has screwed up with two. Philbin's
> defect was football coaching. Gase's defect is
> employee personnel related.


What's ironic in all of this is that Gase's one claim to fame in the form of the 10-6 first season of head coaching was gifted to him courtesy of Ajayi. Does anyone really think that they'd have won ten games without Ajayi carrying most of the load?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: May 29, 2018 05:55AM

Ajayi had 4 games rushing over 100 yards that year. Yes three of those games were for 200+.

So if you take those 4 games he rushed for a total of 635 yards. The other 11 games (he didn't play week 1) total was 637. So although he may have helped in 4 games the other 11 he didn't show.

The most he had in the games he didn't go over 100 was 79 which 40 of that was on 1 run.

He only had 1 game over 100 when Tanne was no longer playing and he rushed for 206 against Buffalo when he ran the ball 32 times (the most attempt he had all year).

So I do not believe Ajayi was the main reason they won 10 that year.

I will say he was a big contributor to that 6 games we won when we started 1-4. I will say overall he helped us win 4 of those 10 games.

*** I will say the game against Bal that year he didn't get much opportunity since we were down so early. We had to throw the ball early and often that game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2018 05:57AM by Grimey13.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: May 29, 2018 07:01AM

Grimey13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ajayi had 4 games rushing over 100 yards that
> year. Yes three of those games were for 200+.
>
> So if you take those 4 games he rushed for a total
> of 635 yards. The other 11 games (he didn't play
> week 1) total was 637. So although he may have
> helped in 4 games the other 11 he didn't show.
>
> The most he had in the games he didn't go over 100
> was 79 which 40 of that was on 1 run.
>
> He only had 1 game over 100 when Tanne was no
> longer playing and he rushed for 206 against
> Buffalo when he ran the ball 32 times (the most
> attempt he had all year).
>
> So I do not believe Ajayi was the main reason they
> won 10 that year.
>
> I will say he was a big contributor to that 6
> games we won when we started 1-4. I will say
> overall he helped us win 4 of those 10 games.
>
> *** I will say the game against Bal that year he
> didn't get much opportunity since we were down so
> early. We had to throw the ball early and often
> that game.

Well, I guess people can spin it whatever way they want, but the reality is Ajayi had 1272 yards in 15 games. He averaged 5 yards a carry. You don't think in those games where he didn't get 100 yards, teams were perhaps loading up against the run which allowed the passing game to be more successful? The reality is that until Ajayi had the monster game against Pitts, the team looked like the same old sorry ass Dolphins. In my opinion, Ajayi was the difference between making the playoffs that year and not even being .500. I guess it's irrelevant anyway since he's long gone but I have to respect what the man meant to the team that year. Leading the league that year in yards after contact tells you he ran his ass off with little help from a mediocre offensive line.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: May 29, 2018 08:13AM

I think he helped but he wasn't the main reason. He was great but he was also mediocre.

I was just answering your question on if he was the main reason we won 10 that year. I think it helped that the Jets and Bills sucked and the schedule was the easiest it has been for us in a few seasons.

I mean Browns, Bengals, old Rams, 49'ers and not to mention the first game of the year against the Seahawks that we should have won.

I loved what Ajayi did that year but the team as a whole played better. I think Landry was all-pro that year also.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 29, 2018 10:54AM

Well, Grimey, when a team has a running game as it did under Ajayi, that makes every other part of the team, even the defense, easier and better. So ya can't just look at it in isolation. That's why I don't appreciate stat geeks as much as they admire what they do themselves.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: May 29, 2018 11:55AM

He either got 2 or 3 yards or huge chunks, hence the 5 ypc. I agree he was great at times but the question was is he the main reason. I don't think he was.

He would simply vanish in some games when we needed him the most. But again was amazed at his season.

I agree stats aren't always a sign of a great player but they do play a roll.

We had a pretty cake schedule and the division wasn't what they were last year. That also goes into affect.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Date: May 29, 2018 01:41PM

AYJAI was abysmal until Gase Benched him for the Seattle game. I don't even think he made the flight.He had a change of playing immeadiatly after that. He was then traded when he refused to block the next season. This off season he had some legal troubles , be interesting to see where his mind set is this season.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 04:09AM

We were 3-0 and Ajayi was avg 4.0 ypc when he was suspended prior to the SEA game in 2017. He was avg 5.5 ypc prior to his trade to PHI. He was getting the job done. I think Ajayi had an idea of how he should be utilized that was not in concert w/ Gase's. He had a point but he also had a responsibility as a player to get iin tune w/ the HC's game plans. Ajayi was getting pretty belligerent and vocal about it. Gase being pretty much still a rookie hc and not used to entertaining players like Ajayi, pretty much just cut bait and let him go. Lots of immaturity on both sides. Same w/ Landry in his case I would have traded him in 2017 also. Actually I probably would have traded Landry and kept Ajayi. We really don't know what is occurring in the locker room w/ these guys. Belligerent, young, testosterone filled athletes and anal, under pressure coaches can be a bad mix. Losing compounds it. Winning solves a lotta problems and Gase has to find a way to do more winning.

Gase has dumped the guys he thinks were his problem and now has 'his players'. Win this year or I will be among the fans calling for Ross to hire he is fellow MI alumnus Harbaugh.


How many athletes have legal problems in the off season that is nothing new. Ajayi has his story and the accuser his. Their lawyer's will figure it out.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 08:26AM

" I loved Landrys passion, his play making ability......but yes as a coach I dont think he liked him from a teamwork perspective."

I'm sure you're right, but I don't understand it. Now, I don't know what Landry is like in the locker room, but the guy is a football player, and on the field he was extremely productive. From that standpoint, it seems that he was a keeper. However, notice the "was".

Rick

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 08:35AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 08:47AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:01AM

dolphan4545 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > FIns 72 is exactly right.
>
> No, Fins 72 is partially wrong. I have to agree
> that Gase is totally responsible for whatever
> happens with this team, however. Everybody has
> injuries, the coach has to prepare for the
> possibilities- and you KNOW that there will be
> injuries, this is the NFL. The record books of the
> future will not have an asterisk next to the
> team's record for the year, saying "They would
> have had more wins except for the injuries". This
> is a bottom line business. Wins and Losses. Win
> and you stay employed. Lose and you are gone
> (unless you are Hue Jackson). Adam Gase better
> remember that.


Overall gase is responsible for wins and loses. Heis the one that hires the players...He has the final say.

He didnt sign landry and traded ayaji for a bag of peanuts.

He is responsible for who do we sign for depth.

NE never takes a step backwards when they have injuries. Because their coach signs backups who play well...>And this has got to do a lot with how you practice and how you draw plays and schemes...This is the head coachs responsability to keep things moving.


Gase is responsible for his actions and that going to cost him his job if the dolphins are not successfull in 2018.

Its all on him

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:08AM

I should had said at the end....

But comparing gase to belichick is like comparing night and day...

And this is not a knock on gase....Gase still has the potential to become a great head coach.

The difference so far is due to experience.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:25AM

Cam Wakes first year 19 tackles 5.5 sacks

Harris' 19 tackles 2 sacks.

Kid is ok

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:29AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I don't believe that Gase took into account FOR
> ONE SECOND what Landry would have been making. It
> is someone else's job to worry about that. He's a
> coach, and all a coach cares about is if this
> particular player can help him win. That's all.
> That's it. So, he believed that he could win
> without Landry. Let's hope he is right."
>
> That's all he SHOULD care about. Winning that is.
> I don't know what went on BEHIND THE SCENES with
> either Landry or Ajayi.
>
> I just know before they were let go, they were a)
> (With Ajayi) giving us a bull headed running game
> like we have not had since the old days and b)
> (with Landry) even with Tannehill, to me not a
> passing QB but more of a run option QB, he seemed
> to be bringing our passing game out of the
> dumpster last year, in both cases, Gase got rid of
> them over personalities.
>
> I just can't help but think that there must have
> been a "behind the scenes" way of handling those
> so that a less drastic option than getting rid of
> them could have been employed.
>
> I know I criticized Philbin for trying to force
> Tannehill into being a pocket QB but that was one
> player. Gase has screwed up with two. Philbin's
> defect was football coaching. Gase's defect is
> employee personnel related.

I'm not sure I completely agree with you. There were some things about Ajayi's play that bothered me. He ran hard, yes, but only when he got consistently good blocking. He didn't have much wiggle, so he had to have really good blocking to be effective. Our offensive line couldn't provide that very often, so if you look at the stats, he wasn't very good very often. Frequently, he was halfhearted about it. And, he was known for breaking tackles, but he only did that if he had a major head of steam up. Otherwise, he went down in the arms of almost anybody. Also, if the designated hole was closed, he didn't have the athleticism to improvise. He just tried to make a hole where there wasn't one, gaining minimal yards if he was lucky. Drake can make it happen even if a play breaks down badly. Csonka could do it in the old days, so could Kiick, Morris, Malone, Nottingham, Hampton, Nathan, Kirby, and others. Ajayi never could.

Rick

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:36AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, Grimey, when a team has a running game as it
> did under Ajayi, that makes every other part of
> the team, even the defense, easier and better. So
> ya can't just look at it in isolation. That's why
> I don't appreciate stat geeks as much as they
> admire what they do themselves.

You and I finally completely agree on something.

Rick

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:38AM

Rick I agree with everything you said right there. That was my point about Ajayi. Had either had huge chunks or little gains. That is why his YPC were inflated. I remember games were I was like "this guy is a beast" and most other games I was like "this guy sucks"...I guess that is the fan in me.

I believe Drake stepped up after Ajayi was traded and did very well. Drake is a lot more shifty and can be used out of the backfield very well.

I do not think we stepped back when trading Ajayi...Now Landry on the other hand, I guess we will find out.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:42AM

Somebody said something and....


Dam i just suddenly had a flashback of dion jordan rushing the passer.....Getting to the passer.....Hitting the passer.....tom brady was it? And bouncing off him like a rubber ball.....


That was bad...>>WTF is dion jordan made of bro..? Glass.


That has got to be the dolphins worst draft pick of all time.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:50AM

I don't agree. You are saying that Ajayi only ran through open holes mainly. That's not true. There was bulling by him on almost every play. Listen, today's coaches are aholes who have the players' fates totally in their hands with only idiot owners like Ross looking on.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 09:56AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't agree. You are saying that Ajayi only ran
> through open holes mainly. That's not true. There
> was bulling by him on almost every play.


Thats very true.

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Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 10:14AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 10:25AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 30, 2018 10:41AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: May 30, 2018 10:51AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: No Excuses Gase
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 30, 2018 10:59AM

Okay. I can accept that distinction. I'm just saying he was never your elusive type like O.J. Simpson.

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