Miller - young potential stud...Gone
Vernon - young potential stud...Gone
Matthews - young solid producer...Gone
Shelby - young solid producer...Gone
Grimes - older, past his prime stud - Gone (no issue with this move)

Miller and Shelby should have been extended before the 2015 season. We knew what we had with them and had to know that exposing them in free agency was a risk. I understand not overpaying for Vernon after we just invested big in Suh last year; but could a deal have been done before now? Matthews never got an opportunity to play until we had already invested multiple high picks on other WRs.

It's so disappointing to lose this young talent. But what did we get?
Williams - no sure. It's essentially a one-year prove it deal for a former stud.
Maxwell - an expensive, injured question mark
Alonso - an inexpensive injured question mark
Wake - we keep an old, expensive player and pay big for past performance

The Steelers, Packers, Patriots would have never let those 4 young players go. They sign their young players for the right amount and at the right time. The Dolphins, on the other hand, seem to make big splashes with big names every year. It happened again this year. We'll see if it turns out better this year. But I can't think of another year where the Phins lost so much young talent in free agency.

Disappointing.


Dolphins brass please listen - when you get young, talented players try to find out what they can do for you before their contract year. Then if they're good players, try to extend them before their contract year. Exposing young talent in free agency is dumb and great teams rarely do it.

They offered Vernon 12 per last offseason and he said no. That was a fair price but his gamble paid off.

The Giants will regret that contract.

Losing one good young player (Vernon) is understandable. Losing 4 is unacceptable.

I am going to take gander at this, and lets not forget we were a 6 win team last year with all of this "high priced" talent on the roster...

Miller- RB's are a dime a dozen, and he was paid 6.5 million a season. He wasnt worth that type of money... He is paid like a top 4 RB but he isnt one... Easy to draft another RB. Keep them on the cheap if they want big money let them go and draft another one...

Vernon- became the highest paid DE in NFL history. Would you rather have Suh at 19 million or Vernon at 17... Do you honestly think he is worth to be paid as the top DE in football.. I would much rather have Marion Williams at a bargain as a stop gap for a year or 2 until we develop another player

Mathews- would have been nice to keep, but with Devante Parker, Jarvis Landry, Kenny Stills, along with Jordan Cameron as a receiving TE, there is only so many balls to go around. If you want Parker to develop, then you would be paying Mathewss pretty big money for a #3 WR
WR postion is a strength for us and we want to get Parker on the field more...

SHelby- could have used keeping another DE around for sure in the rotation and his priced while maybe a little over paid for a back up, would not have broken the bank...

Grimes- thanks goodness his wife is getting away from this team and locker room..

The team needs a revamp for whatever reason we underachieved with this group of guys... We seemed to need a revamp of sorts.. We have all new coaches on both sides of the ball... Time for them to bring in the talent they want on their roster, and it seems these guys were not valued as high internally as their potential market value... Only time will tell... If we win 3 or 4 more games next year with out these guys, it will be hard to complain about our off season moves... And it is hard to get much worse then only 6 wins, so we really didnt have much to lose....

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder - good points. My biggest beefs are losing Miller and Shelby. Like I said, I understand losing Vernon after paying big $ for Suh. And there really is no room for Matthews on this team. Losing Matthews and Vernon were business decisions. But I hate losing a solid, reasonably price player like Shelby; and I think finding a guy to replace Miller is harder than some people think. He was very productive when given the opportunity. Dolphin brass must really like Ajayi.

I know we were 6-10, but we had numerous problems that contributed to that, including coaching. Getting better as a team usually means keeping as many of your improving young players as possible, not letting them go.

Looking at Dolphins drafted free agents, perhaps Miami can learn from this years mistake of not keeping their drafted talent.

Ideally, I would have like to see Miami sign Miller and OV, but obviously not at those prices. I would like to see Miami in the future devote some cap space to sign their 4th year players to extensions, so they don't get into this situation of a mass exodus.

Shelby and Matthews, I would let walk. Not that I don't think they are valuable players that can contribute to the team, but you can't afford to keep everyone and hopefully you would have some young (cheap) talent to replacement them. Fede? Hazel? or Draft picks? The successful teams are able to do this.

Lost 4 good ones and signed a few scrubs..


And with the number one pick in the 2017 nfl draft the dolphins select......

The Dolphins are being revamped. We saw the lack of depth at positions, starters that were so-so, and watched several improve quite a bit. What we will see in September is yet another iteration of the Dolphins. As a fan we can only watch in amazement on how things happen with this team. Will we strike gold with any of these newly acquired free agents? Will they be just little flakes of gold, nuggets or the opposite -- "fools gold." There is no surgeon-like precision on what's happening...that's obvious.

Vernon should be forever grateful to the Dolphins and thankful for the Giants. A personal success for him may be less fortuitous for the Giants. We shall see.

YES. Giants will regret that contract. Our only other choice was to franchise him at $15.7M. Still not sure he was worth that much for a one year rental.

Shelby was let go because he couldn't do what everyone knew was a weakness....stop the run. If you are keeping Wake, you need a SDE that can stop the run.

Mathews talent should have been known BEFORE we gave up a 3rd round pick for Kenny Stills. They could have re-signed him AND had a player that would have filled one of our many holes.

Lamar's new contract was not overly ridiculous. Just a tad above his worth, IMO since he is not the type of guy to give you 300 carries a year. We can find an alternative.

(Somewhere Jeff Ireland is smiling).

Tannenbaum said he had learned from his mistakes in NY but why is he trading away draft picks for players ONCE AGAIN? Two years in a row now.

We have yet another GM whose ego has overrode his intellect and is making the same mistakes as our last two or three GM's....the same thing I have been bitching about for years.....

Getting a player based on potential and not history....expecting a player to be something he has never been....

Mario Williams: dedicated
Kiko Alonso: healthy
Byron Maxwell: Elite or consistent
Sam Young: good

IF these "IFs" we signed pan out, Tannebaum will be a genius. If not, he will be gone from the NFL forever. Problem is they never work out.

My complaint is not in letting our talent walk. It's the failure to replace them.

Miami couldn't replace Shelby with William Hayes because they did not offer more than the contract he received at $3.4M per year?

They couldn't offer more than $6.7M for Alex Boone?

I am ok with the Mario signing. I think he is better than OV, albeit younger. He is not too old to make an impact and was 1/2 the price. He has something to prove and will try to kill Buffalo twice a year.

Now...where the friggin real guards and tackles at?

According to PFF, Shelby finished 2015 as their tenth ranked 4-3 defensive end while ranking 8th versus the run and 15th rushing the passer.

From what I saw, he played very well against both the run and the pass in 2015.

Also, he just turned 27 and signed for 4 years and 18 million. We should want a guy like that on our team.

I didn't realize that Shelby graded that well. Maybe we should have attempted to keep him, since Wake is a pass rushing specialist at this point career. I am a little skeptical on some of the rating how well, since Miami has been so consistently poor against the run the last 1 1/2 years. Supposedly, OV, SUH and Shelby grade well against the run. I know that Mitchell and the LB didn't fare so well in grading.

I don't have any problem with Sam Young, he is cheap 910,000 and hopefully he competing for a position as a back up OT.

Both Miller and OV should have been extended well before the inevitable FA vortex kicked in (and sucked them away). Whatever Tannenbum is -- he certainly doesn't have a sharp eye for talent and lacks the forward vision to assemble and MAINTAIN a core group of players that comprise a "TEAM." I believe he's a short-sighted knee-jerk pretender who will only run this franchise deeper into the ground the longer he's the principal architect.

Beyond that -- Ross the Clown is effective at orchestrating a 3 ring circus yet lacks the fundamental insight (intelligence) to BUILD a winning NFL organization. As evidenced by the fact we let our best young talent walk while chasing "home run miracles" -- Ross has no viable vision either.

Bottom line -- this franchise is a certified joke. And in my opinion that's not going to change as long as Ross the Clown owns the team.

Last, for those around here who think OV was overpaid -- yea, that's the case. But we should have redone his deal when we had the chance to lock him up during his prime years -- which are NOW just kicking in.

I honestly believe the kid will prove to be one of the truly elite edge rushers over the next 2-3 years -- and maybe beyond that. And Miller is also a very productive RB who has done everything right -- yet we lose him for a marginal $ difference.

I could go on -- but why?

Bad management = predictably bad results.
I honestly believe we can bank on that formula remaining constant.

The only possible "miracle" in play is the long shot that Gase & Co. are really elite and he can win despite the highly flawed organization surrounding him. For me that's too much to expect.

BNF.

I gave up on the PFF rankings. They can be useful for some details but NOT rankings. Snap counts, yards allowed, segregating where passes are thrown, etc. They grade players before the ALL-22 film is even published. How in the hell do you do that? You can't even see CB's and safeties on network film. Half their evaluators are from England.

I'm not buying their ranking on Shelby. I've seen him get swallowed up by single blocks all too often.

Part of the clusterf%$^& that is the Miami Dolphins is the lack of stability. Every 2-3 years, new GM, new coach, new Czar, new whatever.

Over the past couple of years, its been hard to really see what talent we truly have. Mathews and Miller were underutilized due to previous coaching regime. (I believe they will both excel in new environments) OV didn't really shine until this year. It's easy to say we should have renegotiated this or that contract in hindsight.

Does anyone really think those players were going to extend their contracts under the previous Philbin regime which was shaky at best. Doubtful.

What talented player in their right mind would leave money on the table for a team in constant turmoil? Would you sign a long term contract for whatever your career is for a company or a firm that wasn't on solid footing? I certainly wouldn't

If Gase can be the coach he is supposed to be and last longer than a few years, then stability sets in and early extensions will become more of a reality.

PFF isn't perfect; but every article you read about Shelby comments that he is strong in the run game.

I agree that you should lock up your in-house talent *before* they get to Free Agency, but all told I'm not that upset with these moves. Why? Well, we lost a bunch of guys who got us to 6-10, so you have to ask how good some of these guys really were anyway. And don't quote PFF ratings to me, I put as much stock in PFF as I do the posters here (if not less).

And here's the thing... we're probably in really good shape to land several compensatory picks next year (depending on who else we sign this off-season). No, that doesn't help us *this* year, but it may be a sign that our FO is finally "playing the long game". The key is, we HAVE to draft actually GOOD players. Our lack of drafting prowess for the past 15 years has killed us. And we're not going to consistently be a good team until we get the right FO staff to make good draft picks. Do we have that now? I have no idea. Tannenbaum and Grier? Maybe.

Anyway, if we draft well this year and again next year, we could be on our way to having a quality team. But we gotta start nailing more draft picks AND get better at not letting the good players we do draft get away as FA's

It seems to me Miami has changed up philosophy but it's not playing the long game. They are playing to win now. Otherwise they wouldn't be signing older players in FA to start or plug holes.

Mario Williams 31, Bushrod 32,

I think the plan is to stop the big FA frenzy with HUGE contracts and use FA to sign older players who have two years of good production left and lower contract demands.

Upper mid range players with untapped production so they aren't demanding huge contracts like CJ Anderson, Isa Abdul-Quddus.

No huge $12.3M FA deal for a CB like Jenkins but a 8.5M deal for a guy like Maxwell.

A trade for a starting linebacker for 2.5 mil a year.

Analytics, projections, money ball and build through the draft.

Now they just have to learn how to draft!

I truly believe that this front office has sold Ross on the idea that this team is close and that's the reason why you see all these 2 year contracts.

We go 10-6 this season, then you'll see Ross open up the checkbook and us try to grab a few of the big name free agents (again) with the hope that they, plus the improvement from our draft picks last year and this year will put us into Championship competition.

I have no other explanation for what they are doing.

They are letting our young talent go because we wasted their "cheap" rookie contract deals and they are now too expensive and replacing them with moderately expensive vets that are now on their third and fourth contracts.

Just about the only player I can think of that keeps leaving teams because his performance is out-pricing his current team's ability to pay is Sean Smith. Remember him? We couldn't afford to keep him, he wasn't worth to us what he was to the free market. So he got a big contract to go to KC. Now, his performance as out performed his contract and KC couldn't afford him so he's gotten another big contract to go play for the Raiders. Revis is another player like that.

But typically, if you're signing a guy to his third or fourth contract its because he hasn't lived up to his prior contracts. Not because he did, out performed them, and his team can no longer afford to keep him.

We're getting a bunch of guys that didn't live up to their contracts. In some cases, multiple times.

This team isn't going to be competing for a championship this year or next. So all of these contracts are just a waste of time. Hate on OV all you want and say that the Giants overpaid, but OV is young. He's only a year older than some of the players that will be drafted in the first round.

So far, this offseason harkens back to the Wannstedt days where I couldn't figure out what the plan was. What exactly was the blueprint they were trying to follow? It made no sense. Since the Wannspeil days, the team seemed to have a clear plan. Now, most of the times I disagreed with the plan "Planet theory" and whatnot, but at least they had a plan.

This just seems like they're throwing a bunch of crap at the wall, with no strategic goal in mind and hoping that it works.

As always, just my opinion.

I'm going to ride with what Crowder said - "I am going to take gander at this, and lets not forget we were a 6 win team last year with all of this "high priced" talent on the roster..."

Keeping that in mind, the signing of Bushrod and C.J. Anderson signing an offer sheet brings to light that both of these players have played under coach Gase. Although Bushrod will transition to Guard, it's clear that both of these players are familiar with Gase's system and that he trusts them to produce.

Changes needed to be made to this 6 win team no matter what. Give big money to existing talent this team had and risk having the same results, or make personnel changes? Either way you look at it this team has to take a risk to improve it's W-L record.

This is nothing more than a roster purge. The best this team has been with the guys that left was 8-8.

We are signing stop gap replacements and have to draft well for this to work.

The problem I see is that we didn't purge the most important position and until we get better play at QB it really doesn't matter.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see Tanne shipped off to Denver and Gase drafting his guy. If that does happen we will have a coach that finally neutered Tannenbaum's big ego.

Phins 5.0 - Yes
"They are letting our young talent go because we wasted their "cheap" rookie contract deals and they are now too expensive and replacing them with moderately expensive vets that are now on their third and fourth contracts."


If you are a 6-10 team, do you really let 4 of your most talented young players leave?

Does anybody think that the 4 players mentioned above are the primary reason we were 6-10? There are many reasons we were 6-10, including:
Poor o-oline play
Poor coaching (playcalling, time management, etc, etc)
Inconsistent QB play
Poor tackling (2100 rushing yards allowed!!!)

It doesn't make sense to point at 4 talented young players and say we couldn't win with them, so we might as well let them go. That's not why they were let go, and everyone in Dolphins' management knows that. You don't get rid of young talent. You build around it.

We lost these guys for 4 reasons:
1. We didn't extend their contracts when we should have and when we could have afforded them.
2. Their value in the market exceeded what we could afford.
3. We are dealing with previous cap blunders.
4. We are making current cap blunders.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2016 04:11AM by Northeast Fin Fan.

I actually think they Phins could be better in 2016 than they were in 2015. But that leads to two questions:

1. Will they be good enough to win a Super Bowl in 2016? Highly unlikely.

2. Will the moves that they have made this offseason help them build for the future? I don't think so. We gave up healthy, up-and-coming players for older players and injured players.

So if we don't win in 2016 and we haven't built for the future, what have we accomplished?

We've acomplished another wasted year.......0-16 maybe 1-15.....

This is becoming pathetic.

Cant wait till we play the texans and lamar miler does a jared odrick on us.....


Cant wait till we play the team OV signed with...the giants was it?

Count that as two loses.

BTW brent grimes headed to tampa bay....cant wait to play tampa bay either.....Another loss.

You're a very positive person, sam.

> 2. Will the moves that they have made this
> offseason help them build for the future? I don't
> think so. We gave up healthy, up-and-coming
> players for older players and injured players.
>
> So if we don't win in 2016 and we haven't built
> for the future, what have we accomplished?

If you looks across the NFL on Over the Cap, most teams only have 12-18 players under contract for 2018 and half those are usually cheap young draft picks. Obviously good teams try to keep their core players, but it tells of the fluidity of the NFL. IMO That is why it is important to draft well and find the critical players such as a QB for consistent success.



It sucks Miami lost a bunch of solid to good home grown players, but IMO the only one of them who has Pro Bowl potential is Lamar Miller and RB's are replaceable.

jsm08 Wrote:
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> You're a very positive person, sam.

If you was a dolphin fan for the last 20 years you'd feel the same way.