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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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I don't like ...
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: January 16, 2016 03:38PM

One single hire from Gase yet. Every single one has been a question mark.

I have a terrible feeling about this staff.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: January 16, 2016 03:52PM

This is on Ross for hiring Gates to begin with. He should really sell this team.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: January 16, 2016 04:47PM

I don't know. They're certainly not flashy names but if you compare it with Philbin's staff, it's an upgrade at every position with the exception of TE coach, but even that guy has more broad experience as a coach than Campbell.

Most of that staff came direct from small college USA.

The jury is still out obviously but....

Joe Philbin to Adam Gase
Mike Sherman/Bill Lazor to Adam Gase/Clyde Christensen
Kevin Coyle to Vance Joseph
Phil McGeoghan/Ken O'Keefe to Shawn Jefferson
Zac Taylor to Clyde Christenson
John Benton to Chris Foerster
Terrell Williams to any D line coach we get

The only coaches worth a damn over the past 4 years have been Rizzi, Campbell, Kacy Rodgers & possibly Ken O'Keefe

I don't think Zac Taylor had any business being a QB coach and I think Tannehill improved despite him. I think he could be much further along if he would have had a real NFL staff behind him.

We still need a DL & DB coach. Not sure if they are keeping O'Keefe as WR coach even though he moved up to Senior Offensive Assistant when Lazor was fired.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 16, 2016 05:07PM

When I first saw the title, I thought it was going to read "the fact that the Patsies won today. A real downer for me."

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 17, 2016 06:49AM

We are screwed by ross once again.


DIE ALREADY WILL YA?

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 17, 2016 10:03AM

No Sam, let's not go that far. Besides, any kids he have might be even stupider.

SELL THE TEAM!!!!

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: January 17, 2016 11:25AM

All this of course is contingent if this hire was a failure or a success.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: January 17, 2016 11:44AM

Latest hire is Christensen as OC but Gase will still call the plays at least for now. Gase appears to be committed to RT17 and is surrounding him with more QB coaching support than RT17 has ever seen.

Although some here might think that the hiring of Gase was to work with RT17 and is totally foolish, maybe it wasn't. When you really think about it, if RT17 had this much support coming out of college he'd probably be better than he is by now. Hopefully these hires will develop him more because that seems to be the mission.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 17, 2016 12:30PM

I get ya, 808. The future is not written yet.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: January 17, 2016 04:28PM

our staff seems OK. unlike with Phiblin's hires ours at least have NFL experience, not D-3 college experience. Vance Joseph has a great rep so while I would be happier hiring a guy who had actually been a DC before, he's the best of the first timers apparenty. Christenson is OC in name only but he was an OC in the league with the colts a number of years so has experience. I would really like to hire a former HC for one of the staff positions but unless someone is willing to take the drop to DL coach or DB coach, seems unlikely.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: I don't like ...
Date: January 17, 2016 09:10PM

SIGH. I really dont know enough about them to comment good or bad. But I like that the coaches seem to be centered around getting Tannehill prepared better and primed for success. Gase is Peytons old coach and this new OC was Andrew Lucks AND Mannings. In fact Gase and Peyton are such good friends I wouldn't be surprised if it was Peyton that talked him into the Christenson hire.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: January 18, 2016 04:56AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> our staff seems OK. unlike with Phiblin's hires
> ours at least have NFL experience, not D-3 college
> experience. Vance Joseph has a great rep so while
> I would be happier hiring a guy who had actually
> been a DC before, he's the best of the first
> timers apparenty. Christenson is OC in name only
> but he was an OC in the league with the colts a
> number of years so has experience. I would really
> like to hire a former HC for one of the staff
> positions but unless someone is willing to take
> the drop to DL coach or DB coach, seems unlikely.

I, for one, am curious to see what Clyde Christensen brings to the table and the dynamic between Gase and staff on offense. I think it's more likely that Gase is the true OC and Clyde will be more like his right hand man who will work teaching/overseeing positions groups.

Clyde has worked on some high powered offenses in his day. He has been WR, QB, RB, TE, OC and Assistant HC in his career. He appeared in two SB's and won 1 SB.

He was Andrew Luck's QB coach for his first 4 years and has had success with every group he has worked with....

What I notice about every coach hired so far is their reputations for being teachers.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: January 18, 2016 09:14AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What I notice about every coach hired so far is
> their reputations for being teachers.

I noticed that too Joe. With that said, it gives me optimism. Perhaps this coaching formula is what this team needs to get to the next level.

It's taken a little time for me to absorb everything since Gase was hired. Sure, a proven HC is what I expected this team to hire if Campbell wasn't retained, but so far I've heard only good things about Gase and that he deserved a shot at being a HC.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: hermod ()
Date: January 18, 2016 11:19AM

Let me toss a "what if" out there. Find a cerebral former head coach who no longer has the fire in his belly for the kind of work needed to be a head coach so that he is no danger to Gase. Give him some meaningless title, but his job is clock management, challenge management, and other things which head coaches (especially young and inexperienced ones) often forget in the heat of battle.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: January 19, 2016 05:10AM

“I think he’s smart and he’s good under pressure. Meaning he’s a good play-caller. I think he’s creative. Very, very hard worker. He prepares his staff and the players very well. - John Fox

Gase is here. I think you gotta let him do his thing. The guy has been also described as a genius by the smartest QB in the NFL.

He has two very experienced assistants already on the offensive staff. Foerster and Clyde.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: January 19, 2016 07:27PM


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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: January 20, 2016 02:33AM

So, the plan is to bring in a bunch of inexperienced coaches with the goal of propping up a mediocre QB and trying to make him great. If that's not a recipe for disaster, I don't know WHAT is.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: January 20, 2016 04:14AM

I guess that's one way to look at it. The other would be to try and find that next great head coach like Jim Harbaugh or Ron Rivera.

Harbaugh highest post was as a ST coordinator.

Rivera had two stints as DC for the Bears and Chargers. 6 years.

Or maybe to find someone who doesn't handicap our QB because they only know one scheme to coach.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: January 20, 2016 09:38AM

Finding the next great HC is as much a crap shoot as picking first in the draft.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 20, 2016 09:41AM

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Finding the next great HC is as much a crap shoot
> as picking first in the draft.


Disagreed. Finding a great head coach is much harder.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 20, 2016 09:44AM

I have a feeling we are going to be mess for a while.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: January 20, 2016 09:51AM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Finding the next great HC is as much a crap
> shoot
> > as picking first in the draft.
>
>
> Disagreed. Finding a great head coach is much
> harder.

*****************************************************

Not necessarily. Five to six coach firings every year is about average.

There are more questions about Gase and his staff than there will be about Miami's first pick, or in reference to my (above) post, the first round pick.

Just look at all the negative posts, Sam, concerning Gase and his staff. Many of our posters aren't even giving Gase a chance to step on the field.

At least with a top pick everyone will give him the benefit of the doubt, and even if he doesn't do that well the first year, give him another chance the second, because he was a high draft choice. How many first year coaches get canned after a poor season?

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 20, 2016 09:55AM

Just look at it this way capkoi...


How many coaches have we had...


And only shula worked out. Every body else stunk.


Finding a great head coach is much harder.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 20, 2016 09:57AM

BTW not many great head coaches in the nfl...

There is belichick a couple more and the rest are a bunch of scrubs.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: January 20, 2016 09:58AM

The other good part (sort of) is that we are getting a completely new coaching staff AND GM (if you view Grier as a GM).

As opposed to a new OC or DC or HC and same GM or new GM and same HC, etc. as they have been doing since 2008.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: January 21, 2016 06:06AM

The more I read and see what Gase has done and is doing -- the more I like the choice. Certainly his "upside" is exciting, and the overall consensus around the league seems to be we made a very solid decision and an investment that could pay huge dividends. I am cautiously optimistic while being fully aware of the negative football karma Ross has brought to this franchise.

Bottom line, it appears Gase could bring substantial positive mojo to the equation. So it's now a matter of what kind of product Gase puts on the field. Thus and therefore, it's wait and see...

Speaking of the product on the field, I believe there's a core of young talent on the roster. And I believe keeping that talent on the roster needs to be the "first top priority" this offseason. First and foremost, OV needs to get paid and retained. I am like 99% sure if he walks we will live to regret that in a huge way. The kid is still just 25 and the next 3-4 years he should be at his absolute best. So we need to keep him. Plain and simple.

I also think Miller at 24 is a player we need to build with moving forward. He's done everything right and if we're going to be a 1st class org we need to keep players like him. To me that's essential unless Miller and/or OV demand crazy money. But we have to pay them fair market value. Just get it done.

I'm no capologist, but I'd terminate contracts with Wake and Cameron to open up some $$$ -- assuming that's needed. I love Wake but it's a biz and he's too old and too injured at this point. I'd also like at other guys we can save some $$ on including Matt Moore, though I doubt his deal is a bank breaker. Whatever -- we need to keep our young talent.

Onward and upward (or continue to sick to the bottom).

BNF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2016 06:08AM by BigNastyFish.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: January 21, 2016 07:34AM

Wake has taken less than he could have gotten elsewhere to stay in Miami. I think he will take a cut to stay. He will have to take an incentive laden contract to return, in the 6 mil range with incentives to reach 10 mil for playing time and 12 sacks, etc. He is a situational player at this point any way.

His injury is such that he may not even be ready to play until mid-season so he doesn't have much bargaining power.

I agree on Miller and OV. They were both born in Miami, played college ball and 100% of PRO ball in Miami.

They may be inclined to give a slight hometown discount especially considering no state tax and long ties to the area.

We'll have to let the market decide what they're worth as I'm sure the FO is thinking.

Odrick signed for 8.5 mil per year last year. I think Vernon would take that deal to stay. Miller's value will probably be closer to the 5 mil per year range. Miller made 1.6 mil this year. OV made 1.7 mil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2016 07:37AM by JoeFootball.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: January 21, 2016 11:13AM

Depends on the system but I'd let Miller walk. Go with Ajayi, williams, and cheap vet.

I'd only keep vernon if wake doesn't restructure. If so let him walk.

We need to build through the draft. If we let them go and don't go hog wild in FA we could be looking at a couple of 4th or 5th comp picks and they're tradeable next year.

If we're going to make a splash, which tannenbaum surely will do, then spend that on a quality guard.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: January 21, 2016 01:12PM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just look at it this way capkoi...
>
>
> How many coaches have we had...
>
>
> And only shula worked out. Every body else stunk.
>
>
> Finding a great head coach is much harder.

*****************************************************

Sam, maybe I didn't word my post very well, but your last sentence is what I was saying.

That's what I was saying as far as many on this board not giving Gase a chance. It's all doom and gloom.

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Re: I don't like ...
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: January 21, 2016 01:18PM

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The more I read and see what Gase has done and is
> doing -- the more I like the choice. Certainly his
> "upside" is exciting, and the overall consensus
> around the league seems to be we made a very solid
> decision and an investment that could pay huge
> dividends. I am cautiously optimistic while being
> fully aware of the negative football karma Ross
> has brought to this franchise.
>
> Bottom line, it appears Gase could bring
> substantial positive mojo to the equation. So it's
> now a matter of what kind of product Gase puts on
> the field. Thus and therefore, it's wait and
> see...
>
> Speaking of the product on the field, I believe
> there's a core of young talent on the roster. And
> I believe keeping that talent on the roster needs
> to be the "first top priority" this offseason.
> First and foremost, OV needs to get paid and
> retained. I am like 99% sure if he walks we will
> live to regret that in a huge way. The kid is
> still just 25 and the next 3-4 years he should be
> at his absolute best. So we need to keep him.
> Plain and simple.
>
> I also think Miller at 24 is a player we need to
> build with moving forward. He's done everything
> right and if we're going to be a 1st class org we
> need to keep players like him. To me that's
> essential unless Miller and/or OV demand crazy
> money. But we have to pay them fair market value.
> Just get it done.
>
> I'm no capologist, but I'd terminate contracts
> with Wake and Cameron to open up some $$$ --
> assuming that's needed. I love Wake but it's a biz
> and he's too old and too injured at this point.
> I'd also like at other guys we can save some $$ on
> including Matt Moore, though I doubt his deal is a
> bank breaker. Whatever -- we need to keep our
> young talent.
>
> Onward and upward (or continue to sick to the
> bottom).
>
> BNF.

*********************************************************

BNF, I also would like Miami to keep OV, but it looks like he is going to command a hefty price tag. Can Miami afford him? As far as Miller, I would like to retain him, also, but I think his price will be a little higher than what Miami would like to pay him, and unless Gase can convince him that he would be properly utilized, I don't think he would want to stay with Miami, anyway.

Like you said, it depends on who is cut and what the savings would be. I agree, also, that Miami has some talent that Gase can build around. But a lot of that talent are FAs.

It is going to be tough for Miami to keep a lot of it.

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