dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't worry Joe, its not his fault......we all
> look the same to chyren


I'm not sure what was funnier...this or Bob comparing Hartline to Welker....

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't worry Joe, its not his fault......we all
> look the same to chyren

LMAO...now that was funny!

LOL.

If by stat geeks, you mean fact checkers, I agree.

(google is a wonderful thing)

BTW...Hartline has a career ypc average of 14.2. Brandon Marshall is 12.6.

Hartlines ypc average over the last two years was 12.8. Mikes was also 12.8.

Over the last 3 years Hartline's was 13.4 Mike Wallace = 12.9.

Brian Hartlines best year was 16.3. Mike Wallace = 21

LOL. So from that we should conclude that Hartline is FAR MORE THE DEEP THREAT THAN MIKE WALLACE.

LOL.

Thanks for proving my point about how figures sometimes give a false impression.

Something to remember, guys in the slot are almost always going to get more YAC. They are running lots of crossing routes and curls that generate YAC. Guys lined up outside are running a lot of comebacks, digs, and deep outs that aren't designed to create many YAC opportunities.

If Hartline lands with Andrew Luck, as it sounds like he wants to, he'll be a very productive WR. He's smart, runs great routes, and is QB friendly.

Hartline led the Dolphins in yards per catch each season from 2009-2013. For the record, that means he topped Ted Ginn in 2009, Brandon Marshall in 2010 and 2011, and Mike Wallace in 2013. And in 2014, he was only 0.7 yards per catch from leading the team again.

So we've taken a team that already had a lot of holes to fill (LB, DL, CB and OL), and turned one of the few positions of strength (WR) into a glaring hole. I'm operating on the assumption that Wallace is gone as well, which means we now need:

2 new starting WR's, and at least one depth guy. 3 WR's.
1 new starting MLB
1 new OLB that's an upgrade over Koa Misi
2-3 new DL, depending on what happens with Odrick and Starks
1 new starting CB to replace Finnegan, and probably at least 1 quality depth guy
2 new starting OG's
1 new starting S to replace Delmas

And a new kicker that's an upgrade over Sturgis wouldn't hurt either.

We also need to add at least one power RB who can get tough yards in short-yardage / goal-line situations.

And did we mention that Charles Clay might slip away as a FA, leaving us needing a new starting TE?

We better be hoping Chris McCain, Terence Fede, Jamar Taylor, Will Davis, Matt Hazel and Billy Turner all turn into quality players, or, to put it shortly... we are @#$%&. That's way too many holes to fill with quality free agents, and you'd have to "hit" on EVERY draft pick to do it through the draft. And nobody ever does that.

My early prediction for the 2015 Dolphins? 4-12. :-(



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2015 05:48PM by Doctor Feelgood.

What's done is done...the wisdom of it all is, as always, is suspect. Perhaps, there is a marvelous plan in play to get the players we need to be better than 8-8. However, past experience shows that we are still in a wild and crazy Chinese fire drill. It's hard to be optimistic about how this team solves weaknesses. They continually dowse the fire with gas....

I'm a little shocked there is so much heartburn over the 2 moves yesterday

We had one of the highest paid WR groups with very little production to show for it? I love Hartline but he was simply not worth the money owed to him this coming year,as far as Gibson, he already lost his spot to Landry. Plus we HAD to clear up cap space before even thinking about signing any free agents or draft picks.

I don't get it, everyone complains about the team being a mediocre 8-8, but when they try to improve the talent you guys bitch about that also?

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL. So from that we should conclude that
> Hartline is FAR MORE THE DEEP THREAT THAN MIKE
> WALLACE.
>
> LOL.
>
> Thanks for proving my point about how figures
> sometimes give a false impression.

No, that's just your usual twist. It only proves that your assessment of Hartline (and Welker) was wrong.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a little shocked there is so much heartburn
> over the 2 moves yesterday
>
> We had one of the highest paid WR groups with very
> little production to show for it? I love Hartline
> but he was simply not worth the money owed to him
> this coming year,as far as Gibson, he already lost
> his spot to Landry. Plus we HAD to clear up cap
> space before even thinking about signing any free
> agents or draft picks.

Word is, Hartline was amenable to a restructure / pay cut. But apparently the front-office didn't even pursue that option??? Also, I'm guessing Gibson would also have been open to taking a pay cut, given his situation. Maybe not, but it seems likely.

And that group of receivers, Wallace, Hartline, Landry, Gibson and Matthews, is a pretty solid group, and the offense wasn't bad last year, with the exception of not scoring enough in the redzone. That could be fixed by adding at least one BIG physical wideout, a true FB and/or a real short yardage "power back". It's not solved by getting rid of Hartline, Wallace, and Gibson. (Yeah, I'm assuming Wallace is on his way out as well. If that doesn't happen, then fine).

The question now is, can you take the money you freed up by getting rid of these guys, and replace them with talent that is equal or superior? We better hope PhilHickenBaum has some kind of "mad genius" plan to do just that.


> I don't get it, everyone complains about the team
> being a mediocre 8-8, but when they try to improve
> the talent you guys bitch about that also?

I'll give PhilHickenBaum credit for being bold / aggressive, I just hope whatever they're scheming up works. We now have a LOT of holes to fill, and possibly even more if Clay and/or Odrick signs elsewhere.

Clay will be resigned.

These moves put us 7.75 under the cap.

Ellerbe yet to come...that will clear 5.35 more unless it's a post June cut and then it's more....later

Cortland Finnegan is another 5.475 mil



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2015 08:00AM by JoeFootball.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Clay will be resigned.
>

We hope. Nobody knows for sure, until the ink is dry on a contract.

I looked at those teams as well due to the geography....but the Steelers don't really sign FA Wr's. They have when they were desperate from injury but not usually. The Bears have a QB problem, The Bengals are never very active in FA.

The Colts would be a good fit and will have over 40 mil in cap space but don't have a great need at WR. They have Hilton, drafted Moncrief last year and just signed Duron Carter. They have bigger needs at OL, RB and on defense.

I was trying to figure how they would resign Hartline. They are already taking a 4.2 mil cap hit so I don't see how resigning would make sense. They would eat up all the savings they just got for cutting him...3.15 mil. I think if they were going to do it, it would have been a restructure so they could have voided the other money.

Hartlines idea of getting closer to home with an "established" Qb may have been a pipe dream and he may end up somewhere like Cleveland with Josh McCown...or KC with Alex Smith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2015 03:10AM by JoeFootball.

I was wondering about the dead money already owed also, I guess it boils down to what other teams think of Hartline and what they're willing to pay him. What tier does he fall into with the pending FA WR's? And with the draft class being as deep as it appears, teams might wait and see how they do in the draft before committing big bucks to a player with Brians skill set.

Rishard Matthews ?@_RMatthews 1m1 minute ago
Let's get it straight. I did not ask for a trade. Nor did I ask to be released. So whatever these false articles are #MoveOn

Chris Perkins ?@chrisperk 10m10 minutes ago
Tannehill on if he wants Wallace back. "yeah. I like Mike. I think he's a talented player. And we'll see what happens."



Chris Perkins ?@chrisperk 11m11 minutes ago
Tannehill said he's talked to Wallace since season ended & conversation went well. Said wants Mike back.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't get it, everyone complains about the team
> being a mediocre 8-8, but when they try to improve
> the talent you guys bitch about that also?

It isn't the effort that's lacking, it's the decision-making. It's been a few days since the announcement and I still disagree with the move...my first major disagreement with Hickey. We should make decisions based on talent and production, and Hartline has proven out on both.

This makes him a good player, and we ought to be in the business of collecting more good players not letting them get away.

Hartline was not worth the money that his 2014 salary called for. Now if he comes back at a lower price for the number 3 wr spot.