Hre's how it should go IMHO.

Czar = Responsible for the overall operation and making sure everyone plays nice together. Reports to Ross.

GM = Responsible for all personnel matters, scouts, and player salary negotiations. Reports to czar.

HC = Responsible for implementing and governing all aspects of the on field product. Reports to GM.

Now that said, There should have to be a consensus between these three people with respect to adding or subtracting veteran players or using draft picks and what players are/are not drafted. If a consensus cannot be reached then after hearing all of the pros and cons the czar would hold the deciding vote. This is why he should be a very astute football guy.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hre's how it should go IMHO.
>
> Czar = Responsible for the overall operation and
> making sure everyone plays nice together. Reports
> to Ross.
>
> GM = Responsible for all personnel matters,
> scouts, and player salary negotiations. Reports to
> czar.
>
> HC = Responsible for implementing and governing
> all aspects of the on field product. Reports to
> GM.
>
> Now that said, There should have to be a consensus
> between these three people with respect to adding
> or subtracting veteran players or using draft
> picks and what players are/are not drafted. If a
> consensus cannot be reached then after hearing all
> of the pros and cons the czar would hold the
> deciding vote. This is why he should be a very
> astute football guy.

That's a good model.

It's what the Giants used in the 80's and 90's under George young.

It works if the czar has a background/track record in talent evaluation. Not so much if the czar is a bean counter. Might as well just flip a coin or have the HC and gm them wrestle instead if they disagree on a pick.

As long as the GM can bring in some good scouts for pro personnel and college personnel, I am ok with it. He should have connections.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

THE Truth Wrote:
> Your front office is not unlike the huddle or the
> coaching staff. There is always one person in
> charge. In the huddle, if your qb isn't the
> leader on the field then you are doomed.
>
> With a coaching staff there are multiple layers of
> authority all reporting up to the guy with final
> authority who is intimately involved the processes
> he's making decisions about.
>
> The front office needs to be the same way. You
> need a STRONG gm or czar type with extensive
> experience accessing talent.
>
> Anything going less than that is a recipe for
> disaster, at least in my opinion.


I have no problem with a GM being the final decision maker on talent. I do have a problem with the HC working for the GM unless the GM is someone of exceptional accomplishment/reputation. In the Dolphins' case, have a flat organization is best IMO with the HC and GM reporting directly to Ross or someone he trusts implicitly.

Isn't that what we just had?
HC reports directly to Ross, GM reported directly to Ross and, obviously, Delta Dawn reported directly to Ross.
Sniping and backstabbing and "Survivor" style alliances ruled the day with the real estate salesman making the final decision.
Jerry Jones would love it.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> > Your front office is not unlike the huddle or
> the
> > coaching staff. There is always one person in
> > charge. In the huddle, if your qb isn't the
> > leader on the field then you are doomed.
> >
> > With a coaching staff there are multiple layers
> of
> > authority all reporting up to the guy with
> final
> > authority who is intimately involved the
> processes
> > he's making decisions about.
> >
> > The front office needs to be the same way.
> You
> > need a STRONG gm or czar type with extensive
> > experience accessing talent.
> >
> > Anything going less than that is a recipe for
> > disaster, at least in my opinion.
>
>
> I have no problem with a GM being the final
> decision maker on talent. I do have a problem with
> the HC working for the GM unless the GM is someone
> of exceptional accomplishment/reputation. In the
> Dolphins' case, have a flat organization is best
> IMO with the HC and GM reporting directly to Ross
> or someone he trusts implicitly.


I wouldn't set things up that way.

You get power struggles like the one that we just went through.

I'd hire one guy who is in charge of all football related issues. Call him a czar, gm, sir puff--stuff... Whatever.

That guy picks the HC he believes in and the HC hires his staff with the top guy having the power to veto a hire or fire any assistant coach.

The top guy is in charge of the short term and long term goals of the team on the field. The HC is on concerned with the next game.

They can't be equal. One has to be in charge or both end up running to ownership to try to get them on their side of an issue.

It's one thing if ownership is an active participant like the Rooney family in Pittsburgh. It's a disaster in the making if your ownership isn't part of the industry.

It's one thing to give equal footing to a HC who has accomplished a lot like a Shula or belichick. It's silly to give it to a novice like Philbin who has yet to prove he can succeed at his own job, let alone at two jobs at the same time.

That's kinda what I said.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's kinda what I said .



We are in agreement.

I think that the problem with the flat hierarchy Chris is talking about is this:

If the gm and coach are equals and they disagree on a draft pick under that scenario you get Ross or Aponte as the tie breaker.

That's a disaster.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 10:36AM by THE Truth.

Having the HC and GM report directly to Ross is foolish... We need them to report to someone that actually is involved daily, and knows what the hell they are talking about... Ross has no idea what he is talking about or doing when it comes to being the boss of an NFL football organization... He needs to put someone in place that does IMO... Ross needs to take himself out of this mess... He isn't helping the situation... In my line of work, we hire what is called an owners rep to advise the owner... That is what should happen here but in the name of a "football czar"... Ross has owners reps in all of the other development work he does, so that model would be familiar for him...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2014 09:37AM by Crowder52.

Basically, the GM and the HC have to be able to come to a consensus on player acquisition, whether through the draft or free agency or cutting players.

The GM should be the boss but he should listen to the HC as to what the team needs in terms of specific players whether free agent, draft, or on the team.

The HC should be boss of WHAT (position) is needed.

The GM should be boss of WHO (player at that position) is gotten.

The HC should spend the year running the team.

The GM should spend the year keeping his eye on college talent and other pro team talent or CFL talent.

It's just like the relationship that should be between the HC and the OC on playcalling and offensive schemes. The OC has the regular day to day and game to game say.

But in crucial situations, critical plays in the game, it should be a consultation with the HC making the ultimate decision.

I just don't think Ross can be the guy that is overseeing the GM and coach... And if they each report directly to him, he doesn't have the reference or credentials, so to speak, to be able to make the right decision based on the information he is getting or observing... He is a billionaire, he is not a football guy... Just being a billionaire doesn't make you a strong leader who can have the HC and GM report directly to you. That is ego more then intelligent management... Which at that point it can only become corporate BS... Who can get on the boss's good side and get his ear the most, gets their agenda more then the guy who can't.. Ross doesn't have the skills or football insight and knowledge to judge it any other way..... I am hoping Ross is smart enough business wise to recognize this, and not let his ego get in the way....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

So what you're saying is that the HC, joe philbin, is the problem?

Shocking!

There really isn't a conflict.

Any GM worth his weight will always gain the HC's opinion on players, cause that contributes to the success of the player and, consequently, the GM. If the GM chooses not to listen (e.g. Ireland) and picks a load of players he wants who can't play or aren't ready to play...that's the GM's fault.

Example:
Ross: Joe, why didnt you play Dallas Thomas?
Philbin: Cause he'll get our QB killed. Did you see him during preseason?

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There really isn't a conflict.
>
> Any GM worth his weight will always gain the HC's
> opinion on players, cause that contributes to the
> success of the player and, consequently, the GM.
> If the GM chooses not to listen (e.g. Ireland) and
> picks a load of players he wants who can't play or
> aren't ready to play...that's the GM's fault.
>
> Example:
> Ross: Joe, why didnt you play Dallas Thomas?
> Philbin: Cause he'll get our QB killed. Did you
> see him during preseason?

I don't disagree with that Chris, but this is why the GM needs to pick his coach, not have the owner make that choice for him.

Under normal circumstances a strong gm will pick a HC who agrees with his philosophy and will work closely with him on personnel decisions.

But when they don't agree, the person who is considering the bigger picture needs to make the call.

It would be different if we had an established HC with a big track record of success. He could leverage that production to pick his own Scout/GM to work under him in a support capacity.

That's not our situation.


If we come out of this with our final decision maker on personnel issues being either:

1 - A Real Estate Tycoon...
2 - A female capologist with no playing, coaching or scouting experience...or...
3 - A HC who has a sub .500 career winning %, no scouting experience and who never even called plays as an OC...
4 - or any combination of the above...

Then we would be screwed. We would be rudderless, clueless, and adrift in a sea of incompetence.


We need THE BEST possible talent evaluator we can find. That's where good teams begin and end. If you can't identify talent you can't win. So finding the guy with that skill set is the utmost priority for an organization. And nobody else in this organization is good enough at their jobs to justify getting in the way of that.

Ross is building a building in New York, things aren't going well, he meets with Construction company and says, why are we going so slow and with higher cost and change orders. You guys need to get your act together. The construction company says it is not our fault it was the design of the building that is the problem... He goes and meets with the architect and designers, and they say the construction should be simple, the engineers, didn't engineer the architectural concepts correctly. He meets with the engineer who says, it is the construction company that isn't familiar with this type of engineering that is costing you... Since Ross isn't an expert in each of those specific fields and can't accurately make the right call. He hires owners reps or an experts in given field that advise him...

Ross is building a football team, things aren't going well, the Coach says the GM isn't getting me the right guys for the system... I can't use these guys... The GM says I am getting him great talent, he just doesn't know how to use them or coach them properly, which is why their development is lagging. You guys think Ross can be the guy to make that judgement call? And that is what you want to bet the success or failure of the franchise on? Some guy with deep pockets that bought himself a job in a business he has no past or experience in... You guys are nuts....

Ross needs a football czar, if he keeps this silly hierarchy that went on last year, we are doomed... We will continue to underperform as this craps permeates through the organization...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Good analysis, Crowder.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cshashaty Wrote:
> I don't disagree with that Chris, but this is why
> the GM needs to pick his coach, not have the owner
> make that choice for him.
>
> Under normal circumstances a strong gm will pick a
> HC who agrees with his philosophy and will work
> closely with him on personnel decisions.
>
> But when they don't agree, the person who is
> considering the bigger picture needs to make the
> call.
>
> It would be different if we had an established HC
> with a big track record of success. He could
> leverage that production to pick his own Scout/GM
> to work under him in a support capacity.
>
> That's not our situation.


Ross affirmed today that the GM would have final say on personnel. You don't need the HC working for the GM to make that any more powerful or to have collaboration. Essentially, the GM wears the big boy pants when impasse comes. Decide!

Despite what the local media say when they bad talk the Dolphins, this is STILL one of the more desirable clubs to work for. You've got an owner who will spend, who wants to win, doesn't meddle, in a city very attractive to FAs, a crack capologist, and great tradition and alumni. What's not to like?

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cshashaty Wrote:
> > I don't disagree with that Chris, but this is
> why
> > the GM needs to pick his coach, not have the
> owner
> > make that choice for him.
> >
> > Under normal circumstances a strong gm will pick
> a
> > HC who agrees with his philosophy and will work
> > closely with him on personnel decisions.
> >
> > But when they don't agree, the person who is
> > considering the bigger picture needs to make
> the
> > call.
> >
> > It would be different if we had an established
> HC
> > with a big track record of success. He could
> > leverage that production to pick his own
> Scout/GM
> > to work under him in a support capacity.
> >
> > That's not our situation.
>
>
> Ross affirmed today that the GM would have final
> say on personnel. You don't need the HC working
> for the GM to make that any more powerful or to
> have collaboration. Essentially, the GM wears the
> big boy pants when impasse comes. Decide!



You are right. You don't need to have the HC report to the GM. Its just the best way to go.

It eliminates the possibility of infighting. As you said before, in the ideal situation the GM works hand in hand with the HC to bring in players he wants and can make use of.

Is that more or less likely to happen if the GM hires HIS guy for the HC gig?



>
> Despite what the local media say when they bad
> talk the Dolphins, this is STILL one of the more
> desirable clubs to work for. You've got an owner
> who will spend, who wants to win, doesn't meddle,
> in a city very attractive to FAs, a crack
> capologist, and great tradition and alumni. What's
> not to like?


I like Ross. He's exactly what I want in an owner. He wants to win badly, he is willing to spend big to make that happen, and he doesn't want to play GM like Dan Snyder or Jerry Jones.

He just needs to set this up right. Having a muddled organizational structure where the HC and the GM are on equal footing only sets things up for them to run to him, or to try to build political alliances to get their way.

You need one football guy in charge the way Parcells was.

I can live with another Czar if that's the case, but I'd just rather hire a great personnel guy with a vision for building this organization and let him go and do it. He picks his coach (be it Philbin or not) and he makes the call, or signs off, on all personnel/staff moves.

Turn the business side over to Aponte (cap, contracts, developing revenue streams, etc) and you have an organization maximizing the skill sets of its management.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Despite what the local media say when they bad
> talk the Dolphins, this is STILL one of the more
> desirable clubs to work for. You've got an owner
> who will spend, who wants to win, doesn't meddle,
> in a city very attractive to FAs, a crack
> capologist, and great tradition and alumni. What's
> not to like?


The New Logo sucks balls. If I became GM I'd want power to change it back.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

why does everyone keep saying we need a parcells type. the reason we're in this position is the parcells type structure.

and then when bill does what bill does best, leaving, we had 2 imcompetent clowns making decisions.

and this let the gm hire the coach? didn't we just do that? Ireland hired someone he thought he could control and it backfired.

The flip side to that is that Philbin only has 1 year to prove to the new gm he's worth keeping.

1 year. I don't think that's going to deter a potential GM candidate. If they succeed, great. If it's mediocrity again then Philbin's shown the door and the GM gets to bring in his own guy.

1 stinking year.

The best reason to have a czar type guy is that it limits the amount of work required at each level. It allows everyone to focus entirely on thier job without having to wonder what's going on upstairs.

You want a czar looking at everything and managing people within the organization while settling any disputes. A pure manager but one with football knowledge to back up his management.

You then want the guy below him to be the GM who is concentrating on personnel...how to get them, keep them, and who to get while driving the bus to the land everyone wants to go to. A strategic thinker.

Then under him you want the HC, the guy responsible for the on-field product, running the day to day operation, scheduling, training, and discipline. A tactical thinker and very much like a principal...a mentor and model for the team to emulate.

Under him you want the teachers, and the motivators.

More crap from Amanda...getting sick of this guy

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More crap from Amanda...getting sick of this guy


I hear ya, I am not a fan of Armando either but I think there is some truth to what he is saying... I don't think he manifested it out of thin air....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I'm sure there is some truth to it as well but he is trying to shade JP and Aponte in a dark light.

They stuck together/conspired against Ireland, the known asshole. Can you blame them for that.

It was also said that Philbin threw Ireland out of his office earlier in the year.

Ireland has shown his spots. I don't recall anything shady by Philbin.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

No doubting Ireland had asshole tendencies...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Chris, I like your writing and insight, but come on, Don Shula had conviction about Henne and Sparano too.... Don Shula's conviction about an employee of the Miami Dolphins surely shouldn't be the reason for all of us to follow suit.... I also like Philbin, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Shula's endorsement...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

There's a difference between being polite and endorsing someone.

Shula was nice when commenting on Sparano, but he NEVER said that he was "the right man for the job".

And Shula never gushed about Henne the way he has about Tannehill.