IMO the first priority is LG cause great OLs are built from the inside out. Filling Richie Incognito's shoes will be hard; pro bowl OGs don't grow on trees.

Next IMO is RT. Clabo tried hard but he isn't the answer.

I think the Dolphin OL will be much improved if they can fix those two positions at a minimum.

Keep an eye on Dallas Thomas: His stock is at an all-time low, but I think an offseason in the conditioning program will really help him do better in his 2nd year. When he stays low and keeps his technique, he's fine. Better conditioning and strength will help him to be more consistent with this IMO.

No left tackle?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No left tackle?


If they can upgrade over McKinnie, yes. But LG and RT must be solved first IMO. They can win with McKinnie at LT. They CANNOT win with what they have at LG and RT.

RT meaning Clabo or what we have left on the roster since he is also a FA?

Right now we have nothing at LT, LG, RG or RT.

Nate Garner, Sam Brenner, Danny Watkins, Mike Pouncey, Dallas Thomas and David Arkin.

We need everything but C so I figure if we are going to sign FA's then why not upgrade over McKinnie? He did not play even play as well as Clabo over the 2nd half of the season.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2014 12:01PM by eesti.

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was Marino a "BETTER" QB than Griese...or simply a
> much more "TALENTED" one?
>
> Not exactly the same thing.
>
> I have my opinion, bourne out of stats and my
> observations of seeing both play, but the opinions
> of others may difer.


I wasn't discussing the merits of that issue, Ken. I just brought it up to show how using ONE STAT, Super Bowl Wins, does not tell the whole story.

I wouldn't be a Dolphin fan were it not for Griese but if you put Marino on Griese's team, where Marino would have had Csonka, Kiick, and Mercury Morris running the ball and the No name Defense, one might speculate on how many SuperBowls he would have won and.....

If you put Griese on Marino's team, wherein sure he had the magic Markers but not much of a defense and basically no running game then........

But my point was what my daddy used to say,

"Robert, figures don't lie but liars DO figure."

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No left tackle?
>
>
> If they can upgrade over McKinnie, yes. But LG and
> RT must be solved first IMO. They can win with
> McKinnie at LT. They CANNOT win with what they
> have at LG and RT.

***********************************************

I follow where you are going, cshashaty, and you are right, that those positions need to be filled.

However, I am concerned about the LT position, the most important position on the line.

Sure, McKinnie helped solidify the line (somewhat), but there was at least one game where he allowed three sacks? I question whether or not he will even continue playing football; if he does continue, will he overvalue himself; will he even wish to remain a Dolphin?

I am hoping that when it comes to Miami's turn to pick in round one, that a good LT will be sitting there. Normally a good guard can be gotten in the second round, or if a team gets lucky, even later.

Saying that, I believe Miami will have to go after a couple of FAs to fill the holes on the OL. Then draft a couple or three, then let there be a free-for-all with the remaining linemen to a last-man-standing finale. With the mess at OLine, there should be a lot of fights during the off season workouts, and if there aren't any, I would want the coaches to start the fights. This unit MUST improve!

I saw a couple of mock drafts that had Miami taking OL. Can't remember their names, but one was from Notre Dame and the other was from Alabama.

If I were the GM, instead of wasting my late round picks on guys that everyone knows will not make the team, I would grab a few Florida boys. This is one state that has football players that know how to play.

I am not impressed with the tackle from Alabama, Cyrus Kouandjio. He got his lunch eaten in the Bowl game by undersized Oklahoma LB, Eric Striker...a sophomore (6'1 219 lbs). He may turn into a good LT but he is very raw and may need a couple years IMO. This staff doesn't have that kind of time.

I think we have to get a guy that's ready to start so it may need to be a FA, since the elite guys may be gone by the time we pick.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I am fine bringing in a vet LT, doesn't need to be a world beater just someone passable like Eugene Monroe. All the good LTs will be gone by the time we pick but we'd probably have our choice of RTs and Guards in the first and some good ones in the second, so I think our resources are better spend that way. Agreed that a rookie LT of the sort we could get in the 1st (i.e. the 4th best one in the draft) would be a risky deal to expect to be a day 1 starter and play well

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Sign FA LT and then draft a LB'er high. I think it would has just as big of a positive influence on this team....if we get the right guy.

We can't afford to sign ANOTHER LB so getting one on the cheap to push our underachievers would be key.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolphan4545 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ChyrenB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Stats sometimes
> > > tell a story but stats most of the time mean
> > > nothing.
> >
> > I don't think stats are totally useless, but in
> > this case all you had to do was watch the games
> to
> > see that the o-line was very bad this year in
> all
> > its incarnations.
>
> But like I said, Rick, they do SOMETIMES tell the
> story. Just not all the time.


True - particularly with o-linemen.

Rick

First they need to decide what kind of new offense they are running. West coast they will need better pass protection in the style of Richmond Webb.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Didn't Richmond protect Marino? Wasn't it Wayne Moore protecting Griese?

Different game. Greise was a helluva QB.

Rick

"if you put Marino on Griese's team, where Marino would have had Csonka, Kiick, and Mercury Morris running the ball and the No name Defense, one might speculate on how many SuperBowls he would have won and..... "

Marino probably wouldn't have been as successful as Griese was with those teams. Greise was a thinking man's QB, which Marino was NOT. Marino would have wasted much of the talent on those teams. Marino was a far better passer, Griese far better at using the talent he had available to the best effect. One major reason Marino never had a running game was because he didn't use his running backs well. By his own admission, he would always pass first no matter the situation. He was possibly the worst ball handler that I ever saw, because he didn't particularly care about running the ball. Even when he did actually hand off, everybody in the stadium knew it, he never fooled anybody. Greise was a magician as a ball handler, a major reason his running game was superior to any other of his era. With the changing of the game, Greise wouldn't have been nearly as effective in Marino's era because he would have had to be much more of a pure passer, and that wasn't his strength. He did throw well and was very accurate, but he wasn't Marino.
One thing is kind of too bad- as good as he was in his own era, today's game requires even more passing and Marino would be even better now.

Rick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2014 06:35PM by dolphan4545.

Yes, Griese was a computer but in his college days, he was known as quite a bomb thrower.

I remember my seat at Ross Ade Stadium being near an old guy who was always drunk by the time the game started and would always yell, "GIVE'EM THE BOMB, GRIESE, GIVE'EM THE BOMB."

He'll yell that all game long until one week another old guy (I was a college freshman at the time) yelled, "For Godsakes, give em the bomb so this guy will shut up!"

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First they need to decide what kind of new offense
> they are running. West coast they will need better
> pass protection in the style of Richmond Webb.


Pretty sure as long as Philbin is here we will still be running a version of the WCO, but even if we were running some ground breaking new "sand lot offense", wouldn't we still need better protection?

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However, I am concerned about the LT position, the
> most important position on the line.
>
> Sure, McKinnie helped solidify the line
> (somewhat), but there was at least one game where
> he allowed three sacks? I question whether or not
> he will even continue playing football; if he does
> continue, will he overvalue himself; will he even
> wish to remain a Dolphin?

It's a matter of priorities. They have a lot of needs and can only devote a limited amount of resources on the OL. First priority is to take care of the must have FAs like Grimes. After Pouncey, McKinnie is the least of their worries on the OL, IMO.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > However, I am concerned about the LT position,
> the
> > most important position on the line.
> >
> > Sure, McKinnie helped solidify the line
> > (somewhat), but there was at least one game
> where
> > he allowed three sacks? I question whether or
> not
> > he will even continue playing football; if he
> does
> > continue, will he overvalue himself; will he
> even
> > wish to remain a Dolphin?
>
> It's a matter of priorities. They have a lot of
> needs and can only devote a limited amount of
> resources on the OL. First priority is to take
> care of the must have FAs like Grimes. After
> Pouncey, McKinnie is the least of their worries on
> the OL, IMO.

I'd much rather build an elite O-line than retain Grimes at $10m a year...if I had to choose between the two.

Then we still have to address the CB position. Our starting Cb's as of now are ....

CB1 Dimitri Patterson
CB2 Will Davis
CB3 Jamar Taylor

Those are the only CB's under contract....

...and we have NO CLUE about what Taylor and Davis can or cannot do. Patterson is an injury risk.

So take your pick....

1. Brent Grimes
2. Aqib Talib
3. Alterraun Verner
4. Vontae Davis
5. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
6. Charles Tillman
7. Sam Shields
8. Walter Thurmond III
9. Tarell Brown
10. Chris Cook
11. Corey Graham
12. Captain Munnerlyn
13. Terrell Thomas
14. DeAngelo Hall
15. Trumaine McBride
16. Antoine Cason
17. Drayton Florence
18. Will Blackmon
19. Rashean Mathis
20. Josh Wilson
21. Tracy Porter
22. Richard Marshall
23. Nolan Carroll
24. E.J. Biggers
25. Quentin Jammer
26. Kelvin Hayden
27. Mike Jenkins
28. Aaron Berry
29. Chris Owens
30. Sherrick McManis
31. Cassius Vaughn
32. Zackary Bowman
33. Phillip Adams
34. Dominique Franks
35. Brandon Ghee
36. Javier Arenas
37. Aaron Ross
38. Michael Adams
39. Bryan McCann
40. Elbert Mack

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd much rather build an elite O-line than retain
> Grimes at $10m a year...if I had to choose between
> the two.

Did you see what happened to the Pats after they lost Talib yesterday? And the job Sherman did on Crabtree?

In the playoffs, you need a shutdown CB to take away the other team's #1 receiver. The Dolphins are VERY fortunate to have that rare shutdown CB, a Pro Bowler too, and the guy wants to stay.

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd much rather build an elite O-line than
> retain
> > Grimes at $10m a year...if I had to choose
> between
> > the two.
>
> Did you see what happened to the Pats after they
> lost Talib yesterday? And the job Sherman did on
> Crabtree?
>
> In the playoffs, you need a shutdown CB to take
> away the other team's #1 receiver. The Dolphins
> are VERY fortunate to have that rare shutdown CB,
> a Pro Bowler too, and the guy wants to stay.


Did you see what impact Grimes had on a team the had the worst Oline in the league? He didn't get them to the playoffs.

You may need a shutdown CB (its debatable) in the post season, but what good is having one if your oline is so bad you cannot get to the post season?

4 teams played yesterday.

Here's what they invested in their o-lines to get there:

SF: Three 1st round picks.
SEA: Two 1st Rounders, one 2nd and two 3rds.
NE: Two 1st round picks and one 2nd
DEN: One 1st and two 2nd round picks


Miami: One first and one 3rd (drafted for a different offense).


Shut down corners are few and far between for sure, but they are a LUXURY.

Having an Oline is a NECESSITY for getting to the post season and being successful there.

As I said before, if I have to chose between investing in my Oline or signing a "shut down" CB for big money, I'll take the o-lineman every day and twice on Sunday's.

I don't think you have to choose between Grimes and an Oline... If we have a GM that can draft decent in the first 3 rds we have a chance to get multiple starters... In the first 3 picks I would get a tackle, guard and LB... In whatever order works best... Whichever position has the weaker class depth wise you most likely pick the earliest... If a stud at any of those positions falls to you with your first pick you run to turn in the pick...

We need to build through the draft... I understand that since we got nothing from pretty much 3 of our 4 first 4 picks last year, we don't have a lot of faith in such an idea... But good GM's can get starters, and impact guys in those first 3 rds.... I am not a big fan of spending big money on FA's, you only do that if you can't draft.... Our 3 biggest money FA last year, were Wallace, Ellerbe and Wheeler.... We don't need to do that again, that is for sure... While Grimes we got for 5 million... And now should keep him, instead of hand the money to some FA that most likely will underperform his contract, like Wallace, Ellerbe and Wheeler did in that spot this year...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2014 12:29PM by Crowder52.

cover cbs like grimes are harder to come by than OL. hopefully a non_Ireland gm will show us. we need to resign grimes first and foremost

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think you have to choose between Grimes
> and an Oline... If we have a GM that can draft
> decent in the first 3 rds we have a chance to get
> multiple starters...

I don't have a problem with that but if you are going to rebuild the Oline through the draft then you are basically punting on this season.

Not that a new GM couldn't draft 3 impact starters in 4 rounds, its just near impossible.

Most Olineman take a year to get acclimated to NFL strength-wise, even first rounders.

Few guys step in like Jake Long did and anchor a line right away.




> In the first 3 picks I would
> get a tackle, guard and LB... In whatever order
> works best... Whichever position has the weaker
> class depth wise you most likely pick the
> earliest... If a stud at any of those positions
> falls to you with your first pick you run to turn
> in the pick...

I'd rather sign an impact LT, a starting RT and a LG.

Then draft talent at any position.




>
> We need to build through the draft... I understand
> that since we got nothing from pretty much 3 of
> our 4 first 4 picks last year, we don't have a lot
> of faith in such an idea... But good GM's can get
> starters, and impact guys in those first 3 rds....
> I am not a big fan of spending big money on FA's,
> you only do that if you can't draft.... Our 3
> biggest money FA last year, were Wallace, Ellerbe
> and Wheeler.... We don't need to do that again,
> that is for sure...

I'd spend on the Oline. Those guys are proven NFL level players. There's no adjustment period from a physical standpoint.




> While Grimes we got for 5
> million... And now should keep him, instead of
> hand the money to some FA that most likely will
> underperform his contract, like Wallace, Ellerbe
> and Wheeler did in that spot this year...


I'd like to keep Grimes.

But if I only have enough money for him or a LT like Brandon Albert or Eugene Monroe, then I'll take the LT.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cover cbs like grimes are harder to come by than
> OL. hopefully a non_Ireland gm will show us. we
> need to resign grimes first and foremost


To each their own.

Truth- What I didn't like about Irelands regime, is he couldn't draft or sign FA's well enough to have a complete team... We would always fill a hole and then open up another one somewhere else... We need a GM that can keep pieces together and bring in new ones, that make a complete team... We had all this money last year, and did very little with it to build a complete team.. IMO, you don't become a better team by letting pro bowl players walk from your squad.... As I said, we need a guy that can put it all together, not just fill one hole while creating another....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

we need to keep our few good players first and foremost. we can't let them walk for nothing with no replacement lined up

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Anyways, I think we have the money to sign, Grimes, and a LT like Albert or Monroe, and a good GM will find a way to do so... Having our big money tied up outside the Dline in Wheeler Ellerbe, Reshad Jones and Patterson, and letting Grimes walk is just plain asinine...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth- What I didn't like about Irelands regime,
> is he couldn't draft or sign FA's well enough to
> have a complete team... We would always fill a
> hole and then open up another one somewhere
> else... We need a GM that can keep pieces together
> and bring in new ones, that make a complete
> team... We had all this money last year, and did
> very little with it to build a complete team..
> IMO, you don't become a better team by letting pro
> bowl players walk from your squad.... As I said,
> we need a guy that can put it all together, not
> just fill one hole while creating another....


Crowder, that's what the NFL is all about these days. You always have holes. You always have new holes opening up each year. You have limited resources in cash and draft picks to fill those holes.

The really good teams...the teams that are consistently good every year... have two things in common:

They all have QB's, and they all have Oline's.

That needs to be the core of your team. It needs to be the foundation that you build on. From there you fill the holes as they appear every year be it due to age, free agency or injury.