eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Offensive lineman Jonathan Martin did not approach
> Miami Dolphins coach Joe Philbin to voice his
> concerns about instances of alleged harassment,
> sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on
> Tuesday.


You beat me too it.

Schefter is the one who got the voice mail from martin. If they were disputing that claim he'd probably know.

All -- I'd be careful about what to believe at the present time. There is a lot of conflicting info out there, from various sources, and much of it is speculative at this time.

The only things I personally know to be true are:
1) Incognito behaved unprofessionally towards Martin, motivations unknown. He was suspended because of it and is unlikely to return to the Dolphins.
2) Martin had an emotional breakdown and left the team, due to some action that Incognito instigated. The voice mail happened months ago. Something else set Martin off. I believe he is unlikely to return to Dolphins but that is just my opinion.
3) The GM and head coach are responsible for picking players and creating an atmosphere for them to be successful. Both men are in serious jeopardy right now of being fired because everyone underneath them who picked those two to be Dolphins and could've/should've known what was going on work for them or were placed in positions of leadership by them.
4) Any allegations that Incognito could make about other players would have to be proven. Keep in mind that Martin and Pouncey are regularly drug tested. Yet the allegations alone would clearly make the situation much, much worse. The media is ready for this to happen.
5) Pouncey's involvement with Aaron Hernandez is a serious matter, even if he is not charged with a crime. Just the fact that he has been served with a subpoena is bad.

One football related observation: good OL play takes talent and chemistry. It is hard to build chemistry when this sort of thing has been going on.

Thanks to both Aqua & Orange and Chris.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fins72 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If I'm in charge, regardless of what "cards"
> > Incognito may or may not have, I cut him
> > immediately."
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
>
> Thats the problem. Dawn Aponte doesnt want Richie
> cut due to the info he has.
>
> Ive spoken DIRECTLY with a player Agent. Not going
> to say this persons name, if you dont believe me,
> thats fine. But this is 100% true info.
>
> 1. Philbin was approached months ago by Martin for
> this bullying stuff. Joe did nothing, Ireland did
> nothing.
>
> 2. Richie Incognito has first hand knowledge of
> atleast a half dozen veteran players who are using
> illegal drugs... Pouncey and Martin were two names
> I was given.
>
> 3. Pouncey is DIRECTLY involved with the Hernandez
> case, as Pouncey has been financing Aaron in his
> illegal gun ring.
>
> 4. Ross was approached on two different occasions
> last month to sell the team, he thought about it,
> but refused.
>
> 5. Dawn Aponte knows Richie has serious dirt that
> spider webs throughout the entire organziation, if
> Richie tells, the whole franchise is turned upside
> down.
>
> Right now, Aponte is trying as hard as she can to
> help Richie (hence the Phins original backing
> statement of Richie), because, if Richie tells,
> EVERYBODY is gone.
>
> Aponte is holding on to hope that Richie is too
> close with Pouncey and due to that, wont tell all
> the dirt he knows.
>
>
> Again, believe me if you want. Not here to make
> you a believer. Here to tell you to buckle up, and
> be ready.

*****************************************

Well, A&O, I'm not necessarily going to doubt what you have said about talking with people "in the know" but as we all must do on occasion, I must ask what is your position that you have access to these people?

You may not wish to say what your position is or how you have this access, but to make yourself more credible, I think we should know where you are coming from.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How the hell do you spend 57 thousand dollars on
> dinner anyways man?
>
>
> Is it golden steaks...?
>
>
> Maybe its the booze thats expensive....
>
>
> For like 50 people or so....Maybe 5 to 7 grand
> tops....A nice steak dinner and some drinks. And
> at 5 or 7 grand its still expensive!!!
>
> Like i said golden steaks.

************************************************

It's very possible that's the price tag.

(1) 50+ players eating

(2) These are some big boys with hearty appetites

(3) Family with the players?

(4) Drinks are expensive

SamSam, Capt- they drink extremely expensive wine and Champagne.... Wagyu Beef and expensive wine,Champagne, add a little blue fin tuna, Colossal Stone crab claws in there and bills get outrageous quick

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2013 11:19AM by Crowder52.

Cap, A & O is a military man. Just like you. He is in active service and has been what we used to call during the Vietnam era "in country."

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i think everyone needs to chill a bit. what
> bombshells are really out there? Martin had to buy
> Richie's dinner? Vets were mean to rookies? Incog
> maybe used racial slurs here and there? other than
> the last one, which to me is unfortunate but not
> really earth shattering, big freaking deal. I
> don't see this as the end of the franchise as we
> know it, as some seem to be suggesting.
> embarassing? yes, but the good news is maybe it
> will wake Ross up to the fact that he needs to get
> a real GM in there to run the team (and maybe a
> new HC).

Really! Its not like Benghazi where Four people were killed, including U.S. Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens. Ten others were injured. The Media didn't make a Frenzy out of it . No One asked the President "What did you know and When did you know it" If Benghaze is not a big deal then this really can't be a big deal.

Jimmyd, Chris's father Jan Stevens was a department chief with the California Department of Justice in the 80's, where I worked before retiring a couple of years ago. No one was more saddened by his death than me.

Should the on-the-spot military folks being called for military support be crucified to hell for not providing it when requested? Hell yes! But I doubt Obama was on the other end of the call.

Should instead however the President be blamed for not securing the compound better in the first place? What you have to realize is that our embassies have "UNITED STATES EMBASSY" on the front.

But where do you see buildings with "AL QUEDA HEADQUARTERS" emblazoned on the front? Point is that by the nature of the beast, this is not like fighting Nazi Germany or even the Vietcong, it's like fighting COWARDS who won't fight you in the open but constantly do sneak attacks. They will always be able to take you by surprise and only rare occasions will find you being able to sneak up on them.

Chyren as you know I would have a lot to say about this, but I am going to refrain, lets keep this thread on point, this story is confusing enough..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I know but I couldn't resist. The story is personal to me.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris-this is how I understand the drug testing to
> be, I don't think you are correct about your
> statement.. .Street drugs are only tested for once
> a year, it is the PED that are tested for often

But both guys and the NFLPA will say they were tested and challenge any accusations that they are using drugs. Someone making allegations doesn't equal guilt.

anymore on the story regarding rookies being pushed to pay for food, trips to Vegas etc?

Hey, maybe being a lawyer I'm just naturally slime but you know what I would do?

Either

a) Promise to be there but just don't show up.

b) Show up, eat hearty and tell everybody to "hey, eat up! don't be shy."
Then excuse myself to go to the bathroom late right after eating my fill but before the check came and quietly walk out (the restaurants don't get worried when only one of a huge group walks out before the bill is paid). The next they see of me is in the locker room grinning.

That teaches them the lesson that they have to be very careful around me.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anymore on the story regarding rookies being
> pushed to pay for food, trips to Vegas etc?


I think that story has very little legs because it happens all over the NFL, and is not specific to our team or just Martin as a player...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chris-this is how I understand the drug testing
> to
> > be, I don't think you are correct about your
> > statement.. .Street drugs are only tested for
> once
> > a year, it is the PED that are tested for often
>
> But both guys and the NFLPA will say they were
> tested and challenge any accusations that they are
> using drugs. Someone making allegations doesn't
> equal guilt.


I am not disagreeing, just making the clarification that players are not tested regularly for Street drugs,(coke, weed, extasy,etc)... They are tested annually...

While they do test ten players a team each week of the season for PED's... But the players could have been snorting coke all night before and have zero problems taking a test for the NFL from week to week after the initial training camp test...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Ha, ha, ha, maybe this explains it all. While we are playing the Patriots who are on the field, our players are really on "Cloud Nine". Apologies to The Temptations.

dolfan1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this is the case, we ain't ever going to get a
> quality team. We need a hurricane in the next few
> years in south Florida to get a championship.
> (devastating one at that).


You know, usually I try and defend you because most of the time you say aggravating but harmless stuff and are on the receiving end of attacks. This statement is about the most fkn idiotic thing I have ever read. Are you seriously that fkn retarded to have written that?

If these are your sentiments, my goodness god help you bro

I think he was using hurricane as a figure of speech as dramatic speech with the irony that both Florida and Miami (University) are associated with hurricanes.

I don't think that he LITERALLY was hoping for the weather event.

I was the first one on his case for being a Pats fan and this is the first time I have defended him.

this is nothing more than a media driven circus.

martin is a grown man. stop with the bullying accusations. I just don't think he's a fit in this atmosphere.

incognito is a punk that went too far.

the voice mails were months ago. why didn't he quit then? something else pushed him over the edge.

all this info from "sources". give me a break.

my sources tell me i'm going to get cyber bullied for that last post.

I guess if the Dolphins moved out here to the L.A. Coliseum (I hope, I hope), dolfan1 might say, "It's gonna take an earthquake to straighten up this team" and some of us out here in SoCal might overreact to that and take it literally.

Been reported by Sun Sentinel, that Ritchie made that call after Martin missed a couple days of voluntary OTA's.. And a
Coach directed him to toughen up Martin and also make a phone call that would shake him up and get him into voluntary practice....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I told you guys to buckle up...

This franchise is about to hit rock bottom.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I honestly don't think it is that big of deal or the franchise about to hit rock bottom... I just think Martin was and is the wrong guy to have in the locker room... The guy couldn't handle his own life and now wants to take down everybody else...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder,

Im with you on this. Martin pussied out. Yes, Richie's tactics were absolutely wrong, although I dont think Richie had actual hate behind his motives. I honestly think Richie considered Johnathan a friend.


The problem is, Richie's NFL career is over. He will NEVER EVER play in the NFL again. BUT, Richie has serious dirt.

Yes, this specific incident is a big deal, but the dirt Richie and Johnathan have are much bigger.

Honestly, its a game of Russian Roullette. Do the Dolphins cut ties with both very negatively and the two players turn around and spill beans? Or do they handle both players in the players best manner but get crucified from the media for not destroying Richie?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think he was using hurricane as a figure of
> speech as dramatic speech with the irony that both
> Florida and Miami (University) are associated with
> hurricanes.
>
> I don't think that he LITERALLY was hoping for the
> weather event.
>
> I was the first one on his case for being a Pats
> fan and this is the first time I have defended
> him.

Yes, he was being literal. He has talked more than once about this and used Hurricane Katrina and Boston bombingas examples.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

A&O, I think this problem is about Martin... Had Martin been drafted by another team, without Richie, I still think this would have happened to him in some way... So that tells me it isn't about Richie or the Dolphins, it is about Martin and his own personal problems....

It isn't about the culture of the Dolphins organization or Richie, it is about the culture of being an NFL athlete... There is very little room for the weak... And to me Martin was weak minded and obviously not very good at dealing with adversity... That is not Richie nor the Dolphins fault, other then Ireland for not understanding this before drafting him... Martin at one point was a top ten prospect, who fell to us in the 2nd rd... Now we know why, to bad Ireland never figured out why... Or misjudged his ability to toughen him up without breaking him...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche