So far they built a decent team around, improving in some areas and faultering in others, but for the most part it is a good team. If Tannehill doesn't show improvements in consistency, I am pretty sure HE IS NOT THE CHOSEN ONE as I and many have thought.

Actually, Greene was playing very, very, well in the 1999 preseason (QBR of 126) and Warner never would have gotten to play if Greene had not gotten injured. So, to say that Warner was obviously better at the time is not true..just saying.

Also, the Rams at the time were an extremely talented team on a level most teams never, ever reach...RT's rookie team wasn't great and even with our spending spree and good drafting lately, we cannot currently begin to approach that Rams team talent wise.


KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> > Just the guys he listed...Brady didn't play as
> a
> > rookie, Neither did Kaepernick, Marino didn't
> get
> > off the bench for 6 games and Warner 1 year
> > bagging groceries another getting cut by the
> > Packers, 2 years in the arena league, another
> in
> > Europe before he made the Rams as a backup.
>
> I said 'when they got their chance'. Once Marino
> went in, Woodley was done, Same for Warner/Greene,
> Kapernick Smith. Which brings up another point.
> For example Warner's case...WHY could coaches not
> see what he had in practice? HOW could they have
> thought Greene was superior? Game time is where
> you see 'It' practice means little in that
> respect.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > Your missing the 'point' and yes it was a good
> > one.
> >
> > Good NFL QB's show it when they get their
> chance
> > to play. Marino, Manning, Warner, Brady,
> > Kappernick, Luck, RGIII, whoever. Several of
> > those guys went to teams who missed the
> playoffs
> > the year before and made them contenders. All
> of
> > them improved their teams passing game and
> offense
> > IMMEDIATELY. SO far Tannehill has been more of
> > the same:
> >
> > 2009 (Henne) 3170/6.2 yds/ypp 15/19 TD/INT
> > 2010 (Henne) 3520/6.7 yds/ypp 17/21 TD/INT
> > 2011 (Moore/Henne) 3091/7.3 yds/ypp 20/13
> TD/INT
> > 2012 (Tannehill) 3182/6.7 yds/ypp 13/13 TD/INT
> >
> > I for one am a Miami Dolphin fan not a Ryan
> > Tannehill fan. I'm to old for another 4-year
> > experiment in 'waiting for the kid to develop'.
>
> > At what point does 'potential' with no numbers
> to
> > back it up become 'bust'? Not yet, but SOON.
>
>
>
>
> Don't like Tannihill? Fine. That's your hang-up.
> But your point in comparing him to Marino is a
> joke. Marino had wayyyyyy more experience and a
> Superbowl contender team. So you have missed the
> point.
>
> I am 100% sure Tannihill will be a great QB. I'm
> sure of it. However I will say it might take
> another season because of the changes made again
> on offense. But having the Oline play well is
> crucial to him developing a Rhythm. You people
> need to relax. We have come so far in just 2 yrs.
> Less then 2 yrs ago we had Tony Saprano and Chad
> Henne . Are you Fing Kidding me!!?
>
> There is so much great football to be played.
> Relax. Let the scrubs play. Geez.
GLADLY! The 'scrubs' looked as good or better than the starters Sunday which is what troubles me

I was pointing out, as others have, that a great NFL QB gets results almost immediately when he gets his chance to play, and that so far we haven't seen much in that respect from Tannehill.

A superbowl caliber team is not required for this fact nor is a lot of experience. In 1998 the St Louis Rams were 4-12. In 1999 a guy who was bagging groceries steps in at QB; they go 13-3, win the superbowl and set a new team offense record. 2011 Colts are 2-14, 2012 Luck shows up, they go 11-5 and make the playoffs losing to the team that wins the superbowl. Even when the team is extremely poor like say the '98 Colts were when Manning showed up, the 'great' QB showed. Manning almost doubled the previous starters yardage, more than doubled his TD's and set 5 rookie passing records even though the Colts finished 3-13 like they did the year before.

THOSE are the tangible results of having a great NFL QB. By what measure are you 'certain' Thill will be great??? (I hope your right btw) As I pointed out, the passing and offensive stats were flat last year with the year before. I mean you say "We have come so far in just 2 yrs. Less then 2 yrs ago we had Tony Saprano and Chad Henne".

How are you judging how 'far we have come'? the passing stats are about the same, the offensive rank is about the same and the W-L record is about the same?? WHAT HAS IMPROVED due to the coaching of Philbin or the play of Thill? At this point not much but as you say there is a lot of football to be played (or watched as the case may be lol!)

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, Greene was playing very, very, well in
> the 1999 preseason (QBR of 126) and Warner never
> would have gotten to play if Greene had not gotten
> injured. So, to say that Warner was obviously
> better at the time is not true..just saying.

But remember Ken, according to some on here the pre-season doesn't matter! Also Warner sat the year before behind Tony Banks as they went 4-12. They couldn't see Warner was better than Tony Banks??? (2500 yards 7 td's)

>
> Also, the Rams at the time were an extremely
> talented team on a level most teams never, ever
> reach...RT's rookie team wasn't great and even
> with our spending spree and good drafting lately,
> we cannot currently begin to approach that Rams
> team talent wise.

But how much of that 'talent' is just 'talent' in retrospect? I mean Proehl, Bruce and Hakim were all on the Rams as they were going 4-12 in 1997 with Tony Banks at QB. But I take your point, we are NOT that talented and adding Mashall Faulk certainly didn't hurt lol!

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> But remember Ken, according to some on here the
> pre-season doesn't matter! Also Warner sat
> the year before behind Tony Banks as they went
> 4-12. They couldn't see Warner was better than
> Tony Banks??? (2500 yards 7 td's)



Perhaps he wasn't better at that point.

Maybe the coaching, the experience he got in camps and other leagues made him a better player and allowed his talent to come together.



There are a boatload of guys with some or all of the physical attributes (arm, size, athleticism, accuracy, etc) that never make it in the nfl.

What makes a great qb is the internal wiring of his brain. How fast and accurately does he process what he's seeing and how quickly does that process into action.

Marino didn't have the best or most accurate arm in the league but the amount of time it took him to survey a situation, make a decision and release the ball was the fastest in the history of the game.

Some guys never suffer from information overload and can handle the mental side right away. Some guys take a year or two like Brady, Aikman, keapernick, etc. Some guys like warner and brees take even longer to get there. Most guys never get there at all.

We know RT isn't in the first group. We hope he's on the 2nd or 3rd group. But the only way to find out is to play him.

Marino didn't have the best or most accurate arm in the league...

>>>>?????????????????????????????????>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Really???????????????

Yea, you're right. I almost forgot about all those dudes with superior arms and accuracy than Dan Marino.

Forgive me -- but what a stupid, idiotic statement that is.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marino didn't have the best or most accurate arm
> in the league...
>
> >>>>?????????????????????????????????>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>
> Really???????????????
>
> Yea, you're right. I almost forgot about all those
> dudes with superior arms and accuracy than Dan
> Marino.
>
> Forgive me -- but what a stupid, idiotic statement
> that is.

Elway's was stronger (which is what I meant by "best" ) .

Montana was more accurate.

If you took my post to mean he had an inferior or sub part or even average arm, you misunderstood what I was saying.

If you believe Dan had both the strongest and most accurate arm in the nfl then you need to step away from the cool aid.

KB wrote: A superbowl caliber team is not required for this fact nor is a lot of experience.



At least a very good OL is required......At least that.

Thats part of the point. We spent a top 10 pick on a QB with less than 2 years of college experience. Has anyone with this level of experience ever succeeded in the NFL at the QB position?

QB's like Brady make WR better. The Pats have ran probably 20 WR through in the Brady era and he had success . He made Welker into a superstar that he would have never become with the phins


Hoping after this year we see progress, we spent enough on free agents in the of season the WR core is better than last year

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BigNastyFish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I wouldn't disagree with KB. Most really legit
> QBs
> > find a way to prove they belong pretty much
> right
> > away.
>
>
> Just the guys he listed...Brady didn't play as a
> rookie, Neither did Kaepernick, Marino didn't get
> off the bench for 6 games and Warner 1 year
> bagging groceries another getting cut by the
> Packers, 2 years in the arena league, another in
> Europe before he made the Rams as a backup.
>
>
>
>
> > Of course experience helps and so does
> > working on fundamentals -- but (for the most
> part)
> > a kid either has "it" or he don't.
>
>
>
> For the most part, I agree.
>
> But QB's don't all show "it" at the same rate of
> development.
>
> Its a big year for Tannehill. If he doesn't show
> he has another level to his game this year, he's
> not likely to be here beyond his rookie deal...if
> that.


I know KB didn't use him as an example, but lets not forget Drew Brees, pretty sure the Chargers would like a mulligan on that one, and at the time it seemed like a good decision to draft Rivers because Brees took so long to develop. And before it gets twisted, i'm not saying Tanny is gonna be as good as Drew Brees!

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Marino had THE BEST COMBINATION of:
>
> 1) super compact - rocket fast arm release
> 2) arm zip and amazing velocity (STRENGTH)
> 3) the BEST accuarcy in the league (inventing the
> back shoulder throw and putting balls into places
> NO QB had ever ever tried).
>
> Dan Marino was a "team" and "system" all by
> himself. I'm not sure you actually watched him of
> the front-side of his career -- but he was nothing
> short of phenomenal… Every game you watch Marino
> play you saw him do a number of things that no QB
> had put together before… At his best he was a
> machine restricted ONLY by those around him.
>
> In my book. Easily the best ever. Regardless of
> Super Bowl winning crap -- which is pure hogwash
> since football is the ultimate team sport --
> Marino proved even a transcendent talent like him
> couldn't win it all without proper support.
>
> But when you talk Marino -- have some freaking
> respect for his utter GREATNESS and truly superior
> physical gifts (arm and mind and tenacious
> competitor).
>
> BNF.

Where exactly did I fail to show Marino respect?

Or are you ranting because I failed to say: "the single most awesome st, handsomest, transcendent coistous-back to ever play the game" after I brought up his name?

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dan Marino had THE BEST COMBINATION of:
>
> 1) super compact - rocket fast arm release
> 2) arm zip and amazing velocity (STRENGTH)
> 3) the BEST accuarcy in the league (inventing the
> back shoulder throw and putting balls into places
> NO QB had ever ever tried).
>
> Dan Marino was a "team" and "system" all by
> himself. I'm not sure you actually watched him of
> the front-side of his career -- but he was nothing
> short of phenomenal… Every game you watch Marino
> play you saw him do a number of things that no QB
> had put together before… At his best he was a
> machine restricted ONLY by those around him.
>
> In my book. Easily the best ever. Regardless of
> Super Bowl winning crap -- which is pure hogwash
> since football is the ultimate team sport --
> Marino proved even a transcendent talent like him
> couldn't win it all without proper support.
>
> But when you talk Marino -- have some freaking
> respect for his utter GREATNESS and truly superior
> physical gifts (arm and mind and tenacious
> competitor).
>
> BNF.

Where exactly did I fail to show Marino respect?

Or are you ranting because I failed to say: "the single most awesome st, handsomest, transcendent coistous-back to ever play the game" after I brought up his name?

And he is a horn putter as well.

His wife is wearing them horns proud too.

SORRY GOD!

Dan is the awsomenest most courageousrest capable qb to walk in the face of every galaxy in the entire gods universe.

jlyell13 Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
"We spent a top 10 pick on a QB with less than 2 years of college experience. Has anyone with this level of experience ever
succeeded in the NFL at the QB position?"

What has me concerned is that it was less than 2 years of college experience before Texas A&M was even part of the SEC.

Fins72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tannehill is still a big question mark in my mind.
> He did enough good things last year to make me
> hopeful and enough bad things to give me some
> doubts. My main criticism of him is inconsistency
> with his accuracy. He has all the tools to be
> great--arm strength, mobility, intelligence, good
> work ethic--but he has to become more accurate
> particularly on his intermediate throws.
> Hopefully, playing with better receivers this
> year, will help him develop more quickly. In
> fairness to him, last year's receivers (excepting
> Hartline) were to put it kindly, pedestrian. I'll
> reserve judgment until I see him in a real game
> with all of his weapons available to him.

*********************************************************

I will reserve judgment on Tanny for awhile.

What All Pros did he have to throw to last year?

This season starts, and who does he have from last year? Hartline, that's it.

He has basically a whole new receiving corps (including TE) that he has to get his timing down with. The HOF game....Wallace and Hartline didn't play.

Give the guy some time.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > Your missing the 'point' and yes it was a good
> > one.
> >
> > Good NFL QB's show it when they get their
> chance
> > to play. Marino, Manning, Warner, Brady,
> > Kappernick, Luck, RGIII, whoever. Several of
> > those guys went to teams who missed the
> playoffs
> > the year before and made them contenders. All
> of
> > them improved their teams passing game and
> offense
> > IMMEDIATELY. SO far Tannehill has been more of
> > the same:
> >
> > 2009 (Henne) 3170/6.2 yds/ypp 15/19 TD/INT
> > 2010 (Henne) 3520/6.7 yds/ypp 17/21 TD/INT
> > 2011 (Moore/Henne) 3091/7.3 yds/ypp 20/13
> TD/INT
> > 2012 (Tannehill) 3182/6.7 yds/ypp 13/13 TD/INT
> >
> > I for one am a Miami Dolphin fan not a Ryan
> > Tannehill fan. I'm to old for another 4-year
> > experiment in 'waiting for the kid to develop'.
>
> > At what point does 'potential' with no numbers
> to
> > back it up become 'bust'? Not yet, but SOON.
>
>
>
>
> Don't like Tannihill? Fine. That's your hang-up.
> But your point in comparing him to Marino is a
> joke. Marino had wayyyyyy more experience and a
> Superbowl contender team. So you have missed the
> point.
>
> I am 100% sure Tannihill will be a great QB. I'm
> sure of it. However I will say it might take
> another season because of the changes made again
> on offense. But having the Oline play well is
> crucial to him developing a Rhythm. You people
> need to relax. We have come so far in just 2 yrs.
> Less then 2 yrs ago we had Tony Saprano and Chad
> Henne . Are you Fing Kidding me!!?
>
> There is so much great football to be played.
> Relax. Let the scrubs play. Geez.

**************************************************

Treasure....NO ONE should be compared to Marino. He was great in high school; he was great in college; he was great in the NFL; he is now great on his NFL Sunday show. HE IS GREAT!!!

Now, I don't know if Tanney will be great; I can only hope he will be (and soon), but if he can be a consistent, winning QB this year, showing improvement every game, I will be satisfied. With that type of season, I would be confident that he just may become great from then on. No guarantees, but high hopes. He has the talent to be great, but it will be up to him, his coaches, and the help from his teammates. Even Marino couldn't do it on his own (although that's the way it often looked).

The OLine is the key, with Tanney getting his timing down with his receiving corps being second. EVERY QB, even the HOFers, need help.

I don't know how Philbin is going to run the next four preseason games, but I said prior to the HOF game that he needs to play his (supposed) starters as much as possible to get these guys used to one another. Even if he had done what I suggested, Wallace and Hartline didn't play due to (minor) injuries. But I still would have had Tanney, et al, out there a lot longer than Philbin did. How the heck can he know what Martin can or cannot do after only a series or two?

Warner is a great example of a great QB that just needed to be placed in the right situation to produce. Not everyone gets that out of the chute.

Not putting down Marino BTW...he is my all time fav and my man cave has a small shrine to him. I just think comparing Marino to Tanny is stupid.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marino didn't have the best or most accurate arm
> in the league...
>
> >>>>?????????????????????????????????>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>
> Really???????????????
>
> Yea, you're right. I almost forgot about all those
> dudes with superior arms and accuracy than Dan
> Marino.
>
> Forgive me -- but what a stupid, idiotic statement
> that is.

*****************************************************

Wow, BNF. Are you just trying to live up to your name?

Really needed to say what you did in the manner you did?

He sucks up to Truth but everyone else he disrespects.

yea, you're right -- I should have added "asinine" as well but I thought that would be a tad redundant.

I'll tighten-up the verbosity next time…

BNF.

I just don't understand people giving up so quickly on Tannehill after 1 preseason game in just his second season. Some quick review of facts:

Drew Breese was a bust his 1st 3 seasons with the Chargers. That's why they drafted Eli Manning.

Tom Brady got to sit on the bench learning behind Drew Bledsoe before he ever got to start.

Aaron Rodgers sat on the bench behind Favre his 1st 3 seasons in the league. His combined stats those 3 seasons? 1 TD, 1 INT, 329 yds, 59.3%. He had a total of 59 pass attempts, and lost 3 fumbles.

Matt Ryan was a very average QB his rookie year.

Peyton Manning set the NFL record for interceptions his rookie year.

His brother El's rookie season? 6 TDs, 9 INTs. In his 1st 4 seasons, he never had a QB rating above 77.0.

Matt Schaub sat on the bench for 3 years behind Michael Vick. In those 3 seasons subbing for Vick, he had 6 TDs and 6 INTs. In his 1st year as a starter for the Titans, he had 9 TDs and 9 INTs.

Joe Flacco's rookie season he had a very pedestrian 14 TDs and 12 INTs.

And how about Steve Young - his first 2 seasons with the Bucs he threw a combined 11 TDs and 21 INTs, while completing <55% of his passes. I guess it's a good thing the Bucs dumped him after 2 seasons since it was obvious he would never "get" it and become a serviceable QB.

Do you want me to mention Alex Smith?


The point to all this - some QBs take a couple of years to develop. People who are worried about Tannehill's decision-making ability need to realize that this comes with experience. He is still trying to process a lot of new stuff in his head - reading defences, knowing his receiver's habits, etc. Eventually this will become second nature and he won't have to actually think about it, he can just react.

Is there something about Tanny and his wife that you know that we don't know BNF?

Please share.

This argument, at this point is beyond ridiculous really, go back and compare T-Hills rookie numbers to some of the greats and you might be little surprised, I just did a spot check of Elway and Aikmans rookie stats, and Ryan blows both of them away, i'd be willing to bet his numbers would beat a lot of other "greats" as well.
I'm expecting his numbers to improve this year, but anyone that's expecting him to make the pro-bowl and take us to the promised land this year, is setting themselves up for a big let down. Same goes for J. Martin, some of you want to give up on this kid already and we're not even into the second pre season game, make no mistake there's gonna be growing pains with a lot of our young guys, especially those two.

What is everyone's realistic expectations for Tannehill? I say, 8-8/9-6, 3500-4000 yrds, 20/25 TD's (3 to 5 rushing also), 11 Int's and a passer rating in the mid to high 70's. Those aren't crazy numbers in my mind, but it would show a nice progression from his rookie year.

Compare them to Matt Ryan's....they are not much different even though Matt had many more weapons on offense...and Matt Ryan had years more experience in college.

RGIII, Luck and Russell Wilson have made the average fan's expectations much too high.

The 2012 QB draft was an anomaly but people now think it's the norm for a rookie QB to make the Pro Bowl.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers