it is a legit question BNF... Philbin has done some odd things... Seemingly pushing Bess out the door can surely be considered one of them at this point..

Whether you like them or not, Fasano and Bush accounted for a majority of our TD's last year... Burnett and Dansby had the majority of tackles last year...None of them are on the roster either...

I guess if you get your shot at being a HC, the last thing you want to do, is bet your clicking clock on somebody else's players... I cant blame him for that, just hope he knows what he is doing and it isn't merely a delusion... like his supposed evaluation and pushing for Egnew in the draft last year..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2013 12:39PM by Crowder52.

Me thinks its fairly transparent that Mr. Philbin is a slightly weird bird. We just have to hope he's eccentric on the football genius side and not just another prime example of the Peter Principal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2013 12:37PM by BigNastyFish.

Why trade? Because Ireland has figured out that to keep his job he just needs to look like he is doing something.... It doesn't matter if it makes sense - he just needs to do it.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Wait a minute BNF.......are you calling someone else "a slightly weird bird"?.........interesting

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote: Ireland liked Bess by all
> accounts, He like him so much he made him one of
> the highest paid Slot WRs in the NFL when he
> signed his contract a couple years back..
>
> The coach didn't want him and didn't like him in
> the system.. He wants a bigger target going across
> the middle.. If Philbin had liked Bess in the
> system Ireland would have kept him and resigned
> him...
>
> This is the PRECISE point -- and the one I was
> yapping about weeks ago. Bottom line, I'm NOT
> IMPRESSED by a coach whose system is so anal that
> a legit football player like Bess is too far off
> the ideal spec to be effectively implemented and
> utilized.
>
> Whatever happened to getting the most out of your
> players talent (i.e., Don Shula)? And how about
> adapting your "system" to the talents of the
> players you actually have on the roster as opposed
> to some theoretical ideal (see Don Shula again)?
>
> It's like... "oh get rid of his ass Ireland --
> he's 2 point three seven five inches too short and
> his forty is 3 ticks over four four!" Pardon me
> but that's bullshit in my humble opinion.
>
> Beyond that -- I know Philbin is an "old money
> Yankee elitist" but is he that systemically
> "self-righteous" and positionally stunted? Dare I
> say the chap may be a bit more egocentric than his
> heretofore losing NFL record justifies.
>
> Like I said a few lines back -- pardon me but
> that's bullshit in my humble opinion.
>
> But of course I always reserve the right to be
> wrong.
>
> BUT... one way or another --- the shit will hit
> the fan this season ----------- FOR SURE!


come on bro, it's not like Bess is Dan Marino, a guy to design your offense around. If Philbin thinks a better guy can be had to be our #4 rarely on the field WR, then that's his prerogative.

Also I disagree that Philbin is a "measurable" guy. I think it's the opposite, one of the things I recall from Hard Knocks was when Ireland was raving about Clyde Gate's speed and Philbin look annoyed and kind of rolled his eyes and said something like, "how about a guy who can actually play football"?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

DolfanKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why trade? Because Ireland has figured out that
> to keep his job he just needs to look like he is
> doing something.... It doesn't matter if it makes
> sense - he just needs to do it.


if a troll makes a sound and no one pays attention anymore, is he still a troll? (and now I will resume no longer paying attention)

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Philipin seems to not want anyone that says anything at all against the team in any shape form or fashion. That could spell trouble.. seems like we are losing good talent that isnt really trouble at all.

Hey -- I've said before I like Philbin. But I'm absolutely convinced trashing players like Bess is a mistake. Perhaps it's NOT the demise of the franchise -- but I don't like discarding dudes like Bess who come in and do everything right and represent the team with some class and yet -- "that bitch is too short and a tad slow so fetch me a 4th rounder for his ass!"

Whatever. I really don't give a crap. But the same "ruthless standard" of elimination now applies to Philbin. And guess what? The dude has a LOSING RECORD as a HC in the NFL -- so he's not exactly lighting it up so far.

Just do it. And shut UP.

BNF.

Bess was an AVERAGE NFL player. He was good on 3rd down. He never broke many big plays. He was decent with Yards After the Catch but sucked at Yards After CONTACT. If he even thought a defender was near him he would hit the dirt.

Yes, everyone wants to root for the underdog. He was an overachieving undrafted FA that should have been drafted.

He will be a good compliment to a team that needs a specialty/slot receiver and one that already has WR's to play outside. Too bad he went to Cleveland. In any case, he will be back to usual form....700 yards and a 2 TD's.

How will we ever live without that kind of production?

You see, as Bess was among the top of the NFL in 3rd down targets, he was ranked 46th when converting those catches to 1st downs or TD's.

Brandon Gibson was ranked NUMBER ONE.

He will be an upgrade as he can play more than just the slot. He makes the tough catch on a consistent basis and offers a larger catch radius.

Davon Bess made his living off the slant, drag and short curl routes. Rarely did you see him hauling in over the shoulder passes or end zone fade routes. Gibson will fight for those balls. Even though he is only 6 ft. tall, he fights for the ball.

Gibson didn't score many TD's in STL but he was also double teamed because they had no other WR threats. Actually none of their WR's scored many TD's for years. That's what happens when you have ZERO field stretchers or #1 WR's . We know all about that as Dolphin fans.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DolfanKing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why trade? Because Ireland has figured out
> that
> > to keep his job he just needs to look like he
> is
> > doing something.... It doesn't matter if it
> makes
> > sense - he just needs to do it.
>
>
> if a troll makes a sound and no one pays attention
> anymore, is he still a troll? (and now I will
> resume no longer paying attention)

***************************************

Ahhhh, Berk, great sense of humor! Keep it up.

Good point BNF, we should hold Irleand and Philbin to the same high standards they hold the players to IMO.. It doesn't seem like they give anyone a pass or benefit of the doubt, so they dont need it either in my book... it is their world we are just living in it... If that is the rules and atmosphere they set, then it is on them as well..

Sometimes when you see people new to the power game, they think it is bestowed upon them to carry it around on a big stick for they are in charge and must do what is right, being the protector and enforcer for the collective... Yet they dont realize, that having power and being compassionate with it, is a greater sign of strength and can have greater influence then bashing people over the head with it... It reminds me a bit when he benched Reggie last year after his 3rd fumble... How did that help the team or Reggie? But it sure showed who was in charge...smh...
I like Philbin but he better be right acting as he does... You cant get away with acting like Belichick if you dont win like Belichick...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Yo essti this ain't baseball or ping pong or even tennis. The N F L is a team & scheme dependent game and thus statistical comparisons are fundamentally flawed because:

for focking example:

Dan Marino never won a Stupid Bowl but Trent Dilfer did!

Do you really understand the profound implications of that "stat?"

I mean. REALLY??? Do you get "it?"

So until you can convince everyone that (POINT OF STATISTICAL FACT) Trent Dilfer was a superior QB because he won a Stupid Bowl -- which is widely "recognized" as the de facto "essential achievement of a great QB," forget football justifications via "stats."

Furthermore, we can conclude that the likes of Archie Manning was a TOTAL PIECE OF SHIT because he NEVER got his team into the playoffs.

And of course all of us who actually watched would automatically and definitively declare Emmitt Smith the obvious superior running back (regardless of OL and surrounding cast) to the likes of:

Walter Peyton
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson
and Jim Brown (to mention just a few)

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good point BNF, we should hold Irleand and Philbin
> to the same high standards they hold the players
> to IMO.. It doesn't seem like they give anyone a
> pass or benefit of the doubt, so they dont need it
> either in my book... it is their world we are just
> living in it... If that is the rules and
> atmosphere they set, then it is on them as well..
>
>
> Sometimes when you see people new to the power
> game, they think it is bestowed upon them to carry
> it around on a big stick for they are in charge
> and must do what is right, being the protector and
> enforcer for the collective... Yet they dont
> realize, that having power and being compassionate
> with it, is a greater sign of strength and can
> have greater influence then bashing people over
> the head with it...

When has Philbin ever bashed guys over the head with his power stick?

He's the quietest HC we've had since Cameron, yet unlike Cameron, everyone on this team respects and fears his authority.


> It reminds me a bit when he
> benched Reggie last year after his 3rd fumble...
> How did that help the team or Reggie? But it sure
> showed who was in charge...smh...


3 fumbles in 9.25 games before the benching.

1 fumble in 7 games after.

I think Philbin might know a little bit more about coaching and motivating players than you currently are showing.




> I like Philbin but he better be right acting as he
> does... You cant get away with acting like
> Belichick if you dont win like Belichick...



yeah...just wtf is Philbin thinking about!! Who does he think he is??

Its not like he's in charge, or responsible for anything around here!!

How dare he want players that fit his style and system!! And how dare he discipline them when they don't produce or make a mistake? Can't he just give them a cuddle and a lollipop, or at least a snuggle and a binky?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2013 01:30PM by THE Truth.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Good point BNF, we should hold Irleand and
> Philbin
> > to the same high standards they hold the
> players
> > to IMO.. It doesn't seem like they give anyone
> a
> > pass or benefit of the doubt, so they dont need
> it
> > either in my book... it is their world we are
> just
> > living in it... If that is the rules and
> > atmosphere they set, then it is on them as
> well..
> >
> >
> > Sometimes when you see people new to the power
> > game, they think it is bestowed upon them to
> carry
> > it around on a big stick for they are in charge
> > and must do what is right, being the protector
> and
> > enforcer for the collective... Yet they dont
> > realize, that having power and being
> compassionate
> > with it, is a greater sign of strength and can
> > have greater influence then bashing people over
> > the head with it...
>
> When has Philbin ever bashed guys over the head
> with his power stick?
>
> He's the quietest HC we've had since Cameron, yet
> unlike Cameron, everyone on this team respects and
> fears his authority.
>
>
> > It reminds me a bit when he
> > benched Reggie last year after his 3rd
> fumble...
> > How did that help the team or Reggie? But it
> sure
> > showed who was in charge...smh...
>
>
> 3 fumbles in 9.25 games before the benching.
>
> 1 fumble in 7 games after.
>
> I think Philbin might know a little bit more about
> coaching and motivating players than you currently
> are showing.
>
>
>
>
> > I like Philbin but he better be right acting as
> he
> > does... You cant get away with acting like
> > Belichick if you dont win like Belichick...
>
>
>
> yeah...just wtf is Philbin thinking about!! Who
> does he think he is??
>
> Its not like he's in charge, or responsible for
> anything around here!!
>
> How dare he want players that fit his style and
> system!! And how dare he discipline them when
> they don't produce or make a mistake? Can't he
> just give them a cuddle and a lollipop, or at
> least a snuggle and a binky?


Count down to your response questioning why he benched Bush and Not Tannehill in 10...9...8...7...6...5...

lol..Nope see above, your timing was right on but that was about it...Dont even need RT to rebut the above nonsense about Philbin's motivational skills with Reggie Bush..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Philbin carries a big stick, remember the whole
> leadership council, and how he acted towards
> them.. And now everybody that was on it, is
> gone... no more leadership council... I can tell
> he is a new to power type of guy..


First of all, that leadership council wasn't his idea. So why should anyone really care how it worked out?

Secondly look at the guys on it:

Bess...wasn't on the counselbut he just was not a fit for our west coast offense. Philbin said DAY ONE that he needed 5 wr's who can line up at all 3 wr spots. Anyone who has watched Bess play knew that meant he wasn't going to be here for long. Hardly a hatchet job due to butting heads with the HC over team control.

Long...offered a contract despite the injuries and he turned it down. Again, doesn't fit the "power struggle" argument you are pimping.

Bush...was praised up, down, left and right for his dedication, and work ethic. He was let go over money, position fit and that he'd be blocking Millers development. its the NFL it happens. It happened to Bush in New Orleans as well. maybe its him.

Dansby...winner, winner chicken dinner. Not only was his contract exorbitantly high, to the point this would have been his last year hear for cap reasons alone, but he blew it when he started gabbing on the radio about in house stuff (again). He's the one guy of the 3 that you can argue argue was dumped because of a conflict with the Head Coach.



> Philbin poorly used Reggie Bush for the most
> part...

I'm guessing you meant that he should have been used more at WR?

You can make that argument. Of course we really didn't have anyone else to run the ball effectively but he's better suited as a slot WR in our system for sure.

Which is the primary reason he's no longer here.


> And you are right Philbin is a wizard at
> motivation..lol.. Reggie Bush had 4 fumbles in
> 2011 under Sparano and 4 fumbles in 2012 under
> Philbin..

1 fumble every 3 games before...

1 Fumble every 7 after...


you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.



> Wow, impressive how he motivated Bush
> right into shape on that one.. All he did was
> possibly kept us from winning by taking Bush out..
> He did nothing to prevent fumbles..


haha...yeah... a coach getting on your ass or sitting you down has NEVER motivated a player to play better and/or smarter in any sport....hahahaha.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> As I said before Philbin did nothing by benching
> Reggie Bush but help prevent us from winning...
> There is absolutely no validity to your argument,
> that Philbin somehow motivated Bush into not
> fumbling by benching him.. There is zero proof of
> that... I think i more then proved that above..

If you say so...

Truth- When a player with the character of Reggie Bush fumbles, the fact he let his team down and himself. He is hardest on himself, having the coach bench you, just keeps you from redeeming yourself on the field.. WHich is what a guy like Bush would do and has done.. You dont want to take all the wind out of player like Bush's sails so to speak. If it is a rookie I can understand but Reggie Bush 3 fumbles after 9 games, it is not like he doesnt practice harder then every guy on that team, lead by great example, etc..

Benching him was suppose to somehow prove a point that no one at even crucial points in games is without being held accountable. Whether the team took it that way or just thought he was a new coach trying to flex his muscles, neither of us have that answer.. At the end of the day maybe it was important for the team,I will give him that benefit of a doubt.. But it did nothing for Bush but maybe build a little resentment... Though with Bush he is such a professional you would never know it or see it.. IMO It was a bush league move by a first year HC, pun intended.. but it surely isnt the end of the world... If he puts it altogether I will more then give him a pass on such behavior..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth- When a player with the character of Reggie
> Bush fumbles, the fact he let his team down and
> himself. He is hardest on himself, having the
> coach bench you, just keeps you from redeeming
> yourself on the field.. WHich is what a guy like
> Bush would do and has done.. You dont want to take
> all the wind out of player like Bush's sails so to
> speak. If it is a rookie I can understand but
> Reggie Bush 3 fumbles after 9 games, it is not
> like he doesnt practice harder then every guy on
> that team, lead by great example, etc..


Crowder, when a player the stature of Bush fumbles twice in three games being careless with the ball, you sit him for a quarter or two to send a message. Not just to bish becasue he probably already gets it. but when you are a NEW coach with a young team, you do it to send a message to everyone else that its unacceptable. Its called coaching. Check that, its called GOOD coaching.

What you conveniently forget about that game is that Bush's fumble led to the first TD of the game. By the time he'd sat out one series and a play or two in we were down 21-0 and we were down 24-3 at the half. That game was over early and there was no need to bring him back after the half.

In the first year of a new regime, with a bunch of young kids and a not so-so good roster, it was the PERFECT time to send a message and set a tone. I'd MUCH rather he did that then, in a losing season, in a lost game, than have to do it in a year where it might matter.

Sparano was a player's coach. He would not have sat Bush after those fumbles, but probably encouraged him and given him a fist pump or two. Where did it get Sparano?

Philbin is trying to establish his authority with a new team. Bush fumbles 3 times in a few games and he gets benched for a short time. Sends a message to the team that it doesn't matter who you are, if you play poorly you get benched. I'm all for that. It's not so much how many fumbles Bush had before vs. after the benching, but rather the message it sends the team that every player is accountable.