If we are 9-7 they both deserve to stay and Ireland will get an extension, and I can live with it... Once it is guaranteed we have more wins then losses next year, give him his extension and it makes sense, waiting for that to happen doesnt hurt continuity IMO...It shows accountability and good judgment..Signing him an extension now does not... It does more harm then good...I am not blinded by hate for Ireland and dont hate him, I am just no impressed nor convinced he can build this team through the draft, and I think that is what we need to have a good long standing successful franchise...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think at the end of this season we should have a
> much better idea about Philbin and Ireland... If
> we dont play well they both are probably out the
> door, if we play well they both stay, no need to
> do anything premature, when ultimately the season
> predicates both their futures and our
> continuity... If we suck, nobody will care 2 sh*ts
> about continuity... I am not saying I dont
> understand your logic, I just dont think it makes
> sense. To me it is putting the cart in front of
> the horse for a useless gesture that will make
> Ross look foolish...

this.

I like philbin but after 1 year I am not about to anoint him don shula and extend ireland before seeing whether his moves were correct just to ensure keeping Philbin around for awhile. wait and see on both

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we are 9-7 they both deserve to stay and
> Ireland will get an extension, and I can live with
> it... Once it is guaranteed we have more wins then
> losses next year, give him his extension and it
> makes sense, waiting for that to happen doesnt
> hurt continuity IMO...It shows accountability and
> good judgment..Signing him an extension now does
> not... It does more harm then good...I am not
> blinded by hate for Ireland and dont hate him, I
> am just no impressed nor convinced he can build
> this team through the draft, and I think that is
> what we need to have a good long standing
> successful franchise...


That's not unreasonable.

I was thinking late August before camp winds down but Mid season or even a little later isn't unreasonable.

Frankly I don't really care when it happens.

The point hat people need to understand is that when Ireland goes, Philbin is going also...or we are going to have to settle for a guy like the Jets got.

It just doesn't make sense to piecemeal it all together in order to give Philbin one more shot with a new guy who almost certainly would prefer a different HC.

If we have 9 wins by midseason or a little later then he certainly deserves and extension...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> That's not unreasonable.
>
> I was thinking late August before camp winds down
> but Mid season or even a little later isn't
> unreasonable.
>
> Frankly I don't really care when it happens.
>
> The point hat people need to understand is that
> when Ireland goes, Philbin is going also...or we
> are going to have to settle for a guy like the
> Jets got.

RESPONSE: I don't believe so. Philbin is extremely popular and Ireland is "extremely not!"....popular that is.

>
> It just doesn't make sense to piecemeal it all
> together in order to give Philbin one more shot
> with a new guy who almost certainly would prefer a
> different HC.

RESPONSE: Too rigid in your thinking. You have a strict hierarchy in your mind that the Owner is at the top, the GM is next, and the Coach is last.

While that is true in the abstract on the football chart, the reality is that if a coach is popular and the GM is hated, no way the owner gets rid of a coach just because a new GM comes in and "would prefer his own" coach.

There are many people that would be "just happy as peach" to take the GM money and live with whatever coach is in place.

I'm by no means at all confident in Ireland running the draft based upon his rather spotty record thus far. I do have to wonder, though, how much Philbin will be involved in the selection of players. For example, speaking of the decision to sign Mike Wallace, Philbin stated that they charted every catch and every drop he made for the past two years.It's hard to believe that he wasn't intimately involved in the decision to sign Wallace (as opposed to, say, Greg Jennings). As little confidence in Ireland that I have, I tend to trust Philbin's judgment. Maybe I'm just looking for reasons to be optimistic but everything I've seen from Coach Philbin makes me confident in his ability to make us a winner.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > That's not unreasonable.
> >
> > I was thinking late August before camp winds
> down
> > but Mid season or even a little later isn't
> > unreasonable.
> >
> > Frankly I don't really care when it happens.
> >
> > The point hat people need to understand is that
> > when Ireland goes, Philbin is going also...or
> we
> > are going to have to settle for a guy like the
> > Jets got.
>
> RESPONSE: I don't believe so. Philbin is
> extremely popular and Ireland is "extremely
> not!"....popular that is.
>
> >
> > It just doesn't make sense to piecemeal it all
> > together in order to give Philbin one more shot
> > with a new guy who almost certainly would prefer
> a
> > different HC.
>
> RESPONSE: Too rigid in your thinking. You have a
> strict hierarchy in your mind that the Owner is at
> the top, the GM is next, and the Coach is last.
>
> While that is true in the abstract on the football
> chart, the reality is that if a coach is popular
> and the GM is hated, no way the owner gets rid of
> a coach just because a new GM comes in and "would
> prefer his own" coach.
>
> There are many people that would be "just happy as
> peach" to take the GM money and live with whatever
> coach is in place.

****************************************************

What would be the point in firing the GM in mid-season? That isn't going to accomplish anything. Just like firing a coach at that particular time (unless the team is stinking up the place). The only reason I could see doing that is if Ross gives the new GM his marching orders in that he will begin to evaluate the team IMMEDIATELY so he is ready for the off season. Would any (possible) GM be willing to do that? May as well just suck it up until the season is over. Nothing to prevent Ross from talking to possible candidates, tho.

I do agree with Truth, in that 99% of the time, a new GM wants to bring in his own guys. If Miami is winning, Ross won't even bother to look for a new GM....why would he? It wouldn't really matter how popular Philbin is. Ross could love the guy, but if the new GM says Philbin is out and his guy is in, so be it.

If the coach is loved and the GM is hated....in this case, as far as Ireland goes, if that was the case, Ireland would have already been let go.

Being "happy as a peach" would, IMO, only apply to a green GM, one who is thrilled to have a GM job. Any experienced GM will not retain a coach.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > That's not unreasonable.
> > >
> > > I was thinking late August before camp winds
> > down
> > > but Mid season or even a little later isn't
> > > unreasonable.
> > >
> > > Frankly I don't really care when it happens.
> > >
> > > The point hat people need to understand is
> that
> > > when Ireland goes, Philbin is going also...or
> > we
> > > are going to have to settle for a guy like
> the
> > > Jets got.
> >
> > RESPONSE: I don't believe so. Philbin is
> > extremely popular and Ireland is "extremely
> > not!"....popular that is.
> >
> > >
> > > It just doesn't make sense to piecemeal it
> all
> > > together in order to give Philbin one more
> shot
> > > with a new guy who almost certainly would
> prefer
> > a
> > > different HC.
> >
> > RESPONSE: Too rigid in your thinking. You have
> a
> > strict hierarchy in your mind that the Owner is
> at
> > the top, the GM is next, and the Coach is last.
> >
> > While that is true in the abstract on the
> football
> > chart, the reality is that if a coach is
> popular
> > and the GM is hated, no way the owner gets rid
> of
> > a coach just because a new GM comes in and
> "would
> > prefer his own" coach.
> >
> > There are many people that would be "just happy
> as
> > peach" to take the GM money and live with
> whatever
> > coach is in place.
>
> **************************************************
> **
>
> What would be the point in firing the GM in
> mid-season? That isn't going to accomplish
> anything. Just like firing a coach at that
> particular time (unless the team is stinking up
> the place). The only reason I could see doing
> that is if Ross gives the new GM his marching
> orders in that he will begin to evaluate the team
> IMMEDIATELY so he is ready for the off season.
> Would any (possible) GM be willing to do that? May
> as well just suck it up until the season is over.
> Nothing to prevent Ross from talking to possible
> candidates, tho.
>
> I do agree with Truth, in that 99% of the time, a
> new GM wants to bring in his own guys. If Miami
> is winning, Ross won't even bother to look for a
> new GM....why would he? It wouldn't really matter
> how popular Philbin is. Ross could love the guy,
> but if the new GM says Philbin is out and his guy
> is in, so be it.
>
> If the coach is loved and the GM is hated....in
> this case, as far as Ireland goes, if that was the
> case, Ireland would have already been let go.
>
> Being "happy as a peach" would, IMO, only apply to
> a green GM, one who is thrilled to have a GM job.
> Any experienced GM will not retain a coach.

I was we had an "applause" emoticon.

We have stunk for many years and I don't remember ever having as many off season tools as we do this year. Cap space or draft picks.

"If we don't change 8-8, if we don't change the roster that produced 8-8, we'd be silly to expect a better result if we've got the same group of guys," he said. "We can't box ourselves in and limit what we potentially could do." - Kevin Colbert

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Ireland has made some horrible draft picks and FA signings. The jury is still out on this years crop (and the draft hasn't happened yet). Our team has been 7-9 the last few years, or worse. No playoffs. I don't think taking RT at 9 when he really had no choice and spending a ton of cash on players (again no choice) merits him a "pass" for everything else. I'll wait and see how this year plays out.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

With all due respect....that argument about having to take Tannehill holds no weight. He wouldn't have taken him if he wasn't confident in him. It would have been USELESS. He could have taken Weeden. It's amazing that Ireland can't even get credit for drafting a QB. SMH

Everyone wants to ignore the fact that we also refused to overpay for mediocre QB's like Orton and Flynn. Would you rather we waited until this year to look for a QB. We could have Matt Barkley. Yippeee.

Spending in FA was absolutely a choice. We could have just overpaid all our non-system fitting players. He CHOSE to shake things up.

We could have also signed bottom of the barrel or mid tier replacements as some teams have....Jax, Oak, etc.

He is being bold.

Irelands 2011 draft picks (outside of Pouncey) were not good. Anything before that cannot be FACTUALLY put on Ireland. You can imagine but that is all. 2012 picks are looking pretty good.

If this year goes off like I think it will then he has turned the franchise around in two years after switching out all coaches and systems and ridding us of the outdated concepts of project tuna.

I have no problem putting my confidence in Tannehill and this season. I love what I have seen from him. Barring ridiculous injuries, we are in great shape.

If fans can't get excited for this season they had better have their pulse checked or decrease the xanex dosage.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2013 09:10AM by eesti.

I am just saying that taking RT at 9 was a no-brainer. We HAD to get a new QB that year (Garrard didn't count) or Ross would've had Irealand's head. So he took the highest QB on the board (you really think he'd have taken Weeden at 9?). Same thing for FAs this offseason. We had a ton of money and spending it all to retain the same preperual 7-9 team wouldv'e been career suicide, not to mention totally stupid. Signing "different" players with all that money is a no-brainer.

Ireland has made both good and bad moves. At this point it seems (based on team record and who of the players he selected are still on the team) that the bad outweighs the good. That's just looking at it objectively (can you really say a team that hansn't had a winning record in years is a GOOD team with good players?)

Maybe AFTER this season it will be clear that it has flipped and the good outweighs the bad---we just don't know now. But I am not going to suddenly think (as some of you seem to) that Ireland is some great GM who made bold decisions like drafting RT at 10 or spending big $$ on FAs this offseason.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I haven't heard anyone say Ireland is great. I just like the direction the team has gone since Parcels high-tailed it out of town. I think most of us would still say this is a make or break year for Ireland.....but I am still very optimistic. I just can't wait to see what new toys we get on April 25th & 26th!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am just saying that taking RT at 9 was a
> no-brainer. We HAD to get a new QB that year
> (Garrard didn't count) or Ross would've had
> Irealand's head. So he took the highest QB on the
> board (you really think he'd have taken Weeden at
> 9?).

What do you think he would have done if Cleveland had taken Tannehill at #4?

Wheedon would have been an option at #9 for sure. Now THAT would have been a reach. He'd have been in the mix at #9 but I doubt Ireland would have taken him. Probably would have ended up with Russell Wilson int he 2nd or Kirk Cousins in the 2nd/3rd...if we got lucky.

Even so...Ireland has shown time and time again, that he has a gameplan. He sticks to it. He doesn't panic or cave to fan/media pressure just to shut them up or out of fear of his job.


He had a plan that off-season that led him to take Tannehill.

It also led him to stay off the FA market at WR in favor of cleaning up the cap for a shopping spree this year AFTER his new coaching staff had a chance to pick through the existing roster for players that fit their system.



>
> Ireland has made both good and bad moves.


They all do. If you make more good ones than bad ones you usually keep your job and have success.

Go through all the moves he's made since he was hired.

Is it just a coincidence that the ratio of good to bad moves has virtually flip flopped since Parcells left town?

Some say it isn't. I think they are wrong.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am just saying that taking RT at 9 was a
> > no-brainer. We HAD to get a new QB that year
> > (Garrard didn't count) or Ross would've had
> > Irealand's head. So he took the highest QB on
> the
> > board (you really think he'd have taken Weeden
> at
> > 9?).
>
> What do you think he would have done if Cleveland
> had taken Tannehill at #4?
>
> Wheedon would have been an option at #9 for sure.
> Now THAT would have been a reach. He'd have been
> in the mix at #9 but I doubt Ireland would have
> taken him. Probably would have ended up with
> Russell Wilson int he 2nd or Kirk Cousins in the
> 2nd/3rd...if we got lucky.

I think this proves my point. Ireland was going to take the top rated QB at 9. RT was there so he didn't have to make a difficult call of "reaching" for Weedon or anyone else. Taking RT was a no-brainer.

>
> Even so...Ireland has shown time and time again,
> that he has a gameplan. He sticks to it. He
> doesn't panic or cave to fan/media pressure just
> to shut them up or out of fear of his job.
>

I do agree with this. Some of his best moves were "non moves" the public (me too) were clammoring for--trading for Orton, signing Flynn. I give him credit for that. But after not getting Manning and only signing Gerrard in the offseason, he pretty much HAD to get a new QB, and RT was there when our turn came.


> He had a plan that off-season that led him to take
> Tannehill.
>
> It also led him to stay off the FA market at WR in
> favor of cleaning up the cap for a shopping spree
> this year AFTER his new coaching staff had a
> chance to pick through the existing roster for
> players that fit their system.
>

In hindsight, he shouldv'e signed V Jackson last year given what we paid for Wallace (the lesser player) this year, but I don't really fault him for that.

>
> >
> > Ireland has made both good and bad moves.
>
>
> They all do. If you make more good ones than bad
> ones you usually keep your job and have success.
>
> Go through all the moves he's made since he was
> hired.
>
> Is it just a coincidence that the ratio of good to
> bad moves has virtually flip flopped since
> Parcells left town?
>
> Some say it isn't. I think they are wrong.

Even IF you give Ireland a complete pass for everything that occurred while Parcells was here----and I don't, nor should anyone, given that BP had all but checked out after his second draft, if not before---I still don't think the good vs bad moves from that point on favor the good. Pouncy was a good pick. But trading up for D Thomas? And who else is still on the team from the Pouncy draft? Clyde Gates in the 4th round? That draft was garbage other than Pouncy (who was the highest drafted C ever, and while a very good player, not really a great "find" by Ireland). Last years draft is looking better, esp RT and Miller, but the jury is still out on that one too.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

*bump*

to me all is forgiven for Ireland and I am OK with the extension. Although its has worked out in hindsight thru 3 games, if his "moves" all backfired I think it'd look really dumb to give him more years.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

There's always going to be the lower IQ'ed, the less sophisticated NFL minds, when it comes to identifying a good GM. The ones that wouldn't recognize one if it walked up to them and sat on their faces. I get it. They're closely related to those who couldn't ID a good owner if one landed on their head. Whatever.

I've liked Ireland since Day 1. So did Bill Parcells and Jerry Jones, a couple guys who have had a little success in the NFL. So I guess I'm not alone.

I, for one, am very happy that we've extended Ireland so he can continue to build and sustain what is becoming a very solid football team and staff. Something I haven't been able to say since.... the Shula days.