berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> absoultely not. I don't get this at all. can we at
> least see how the players he picked perform before
> giving him an extension?
>
> let's not overlook that there is now no one left
> from the 2008 draft when we had the #1 overall
> pick, almost no one left from 2009, and few impact
> players from any of the drafts Ireland had a hand
> in. Also most of the FAs Ireland had a hand in
> were busts. So I for one think we should see if
> Ireland made good or bad moves in signing the LBs
> to big $$ contracts (Wallace gets a pass
> regardless because he was essentially a "must
> sign" and who he comes up with in the draft.
>
> If ireland picked crappy players, he is gone, and
> should be.

****************************************************

I also don't see Ireland getting an extension until sometime after the season.

His past moves have to bear fruition this season, and this season's FAs and draft picks have to play well, helping the team to a winning season, and at least competing for the AFCE title.

If everything flops, then say bye to Ireland. If things work out well, then more than likely Ireland stays on.

This season is going to be the key to Ireland's future in Miami.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I said "after the draft", I was thinking
> August and I was presuming that he has a draft on
> par with last year and this year's FA moves.
>
> There's going to be no way to accurately judge his
> FA moves let alone this draft class by
> mid-season.
>
> You might get a feeling one way or the other, but
> it takes months to develop chemistry, even with
> veteran players.
>
> If its me, I give him two more years.
>
> Doesn't mean he gets to live them out if the team
> goes 1-15 this year and/or next.
>
> What it does is provide stability with an exit
> strategy if needed that makes your transition to
> an new GM/HC team smooth.

*****************************************************

I fully understand what you are saying, Truth, but THIS YEAR will tell everyone whether or not Ireland will be sticking around.

We may not be able to accurately judge this year's FA moves and draft by mid-season, but if none, or at least only a few, of those moves are doing anything, that will tell Ross all he needs to know. If those moves are working out to everyone's satisfaction and Miami is winning, that will be a good indicator.

But, as I said in an earlier post, this season is Ireland's to win or lose.

Phinjim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All I can get is that he is under contract through
> the 2013 Season.
>
> That means to me that there is nothing critical
> until the end of the this college season.
>
> Thus I'd say we have well into the season to
> evaluate how this years team is doing before
> having to decide.
>
> My guess is they will at least sync him up with
> Philbin's tenure of a couple more years, and
> likely longer if success finally arrives this
> year.
>
> Bottom line - I'm happy with choices he has made
> last year and so far thru free agency.
> - I would have kept Jake here though for what they
> paid let him go.
>
> This team has a lot more talent now and are a lot
> younger

*****************************************

Why would you want to pay Jake close to $9M to remain in Miami? The guy has not finished the season for two straight years. He has had numerous injuries.

Sure, he has gutted it out on many occasions and played well, but you don't pay a guy that kind of money when he can't finish the season. What good is he sitting on the sidelines?

If Jake would have come to Miami for the price Ireland was willing to pay him, fine; but that's not the case.

Ireland's in his glory now. Trading and buying old players. When it comes to the draft, he'll trade down and down and down and down and down and down and down and pick up a bunch of players that he will never play next year and won't be around the year after that.

After what we did in Fa, I don't see any trade down scenarios....I see more trading up.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I hope you are right, eesti.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I make a solemn promise to never criticize
> anything that THE Truth writes if he would just
> unblock me.


Truth read this.......UP........Only thing about chrens comment is i can see him holding his breath and holding his breath until he explodes against one of truths statements...

I dont think chren will be able to keep that promise.

But it will be fun as hell just to wait until the bomb hits.

You took me seriously, SamSam. LOL.

But it WOULD be fun.

The majority of the fun I had in my world was fighting with him.

And I AM serious, therefore, about wanting him to unblock me.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You took me seriously, SamSam. LOL.
>
> But it WOULD be fun.
>
> The majority of the fun I had in my world was
> fighting with him.
>
> And I AM serious, therefore, about wanting him to
> unblock me.


Oh Truth, how can you resist such a plaintive plea?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You took me seriously, SamSam. LOL.
> >
> > But it WOULD be fun.
> >
> > The majority of the fun I had in my world was
> > fighting with him.
> >
> > And I AM serious, therefore, about wanting him
> to
> > unblock me.
>
>
> Oh Truth, how can you resist such a plaintive
> plea?


It's not so hard as you might imagine Berk.

I'll consider it, but my blood pressure is down 30 points, my hairline stopped receding, I haven't kicked my dog, haven't smashed my keyboard, thrown my phone, punched a hole in my living room wall or felt the need to get drunk or smoke pot since I blocked him.

If I thought it was possible for him to live up to such a promise I'd probably do it, but we all know that the chances of him doing such are next to nil.

There is always someone you could trade off (blocking) with.....I have a few in mind.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is always someone you could trade off
> (blocking) with.....I have a few in mind.


Haha...some of them are already blocked!

My God! Has your life changed THAT MUCH for the better, Truth? Then by all means keep me blocked.

You know, Truth, that all I ever want to do is "right by you."

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The majority of the fun I had in my world was
> fighting with him.
>
* * * * *
> You know, Truth, that all I ever want to do is "right by you."


I am starting to get worried here. I am waiting for the "you complete me" post next!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I am just curious, why exactly is it important to establish continuity by giving our GM an extension after the draft? We already made the FA signing push, we will not really have to worry about continuity until next years FA signing period... SO why not wait until then or after the season, so we can better judge his performance and moves more accurately.... I see no rush in signing an early deal with Ireland, his actions surely don't demand that to be done... Fans would be pissed because it would be seen as premature... But as Dolph said, who cares it is only Ross's money, and more often then not an extension when it doesnt make sense, is normally the kiss of death... Kind of like Sparano getting an extension and then not even making it 9 months...SO who cares but, it just would be another example of Mr Ross doing something premature and foolish, which isnt exactly good for his already foolish moves reputation...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am just curious, why exactly is it important to
> establish continuity by giving our GM an extension
> after the draft? We already made the FA signing
> push, we will not really have to worry about
> continuity until next years FA signing period...
> SO why not wait until then or after the season, so
> we can better judge his performance and moves more
> accurately.... I see no rush in signing an early
> deal with Ireland, his actions surely don't demand
> that to be done... Fans would be pissed because it
> would be seen as premature... But as Dolph said,
> who cares it is only Ross's money, and more often
> then not an extension when it doesnt make sense,
> is normally the kiss of death... Kind of like
> Sparano getting an extension and then not even
> making it 9 months...SO who cares but, it just
> would be another example of Mr Ross doing
> something premature and foolish, which isnt
> exactly good for his already foolish moves
> reputation...


It boils down to Philbin.

Are you prepared to pass final judgement on Philbin at the end of this year?

Do you want this to be the franchise that, like Oakland under Al Davis, cycles through coaches every two years and eventually can't get a good coach to even sniff the job because he knows he's not going to get enough time to get anything done?

I sure as hell don't.

If you fire Ireland at the end of this year, you fire Philbin.

Any new GM is going to want his guy since its his ass on the line. Sure you can force him to keep Philbin for a year but its easy enough to get rid of a guy a year later. Just look at Lovie Smith.

This franchise needs stability. Not more chaos. If Ireland was getting fired it should have been when Sparano got the axe. But if the owner is going to let him hire his own guy and implement a 3 year gameplan to transition to a west coast offense and a 4-3 defense, its crazy to pull the plug on that transition halfway through.

And if you change GM's that's precisely what you are doing. You just aren't doing it cleanly...you are making an even bigger mess of it by making the change in stages.

If I'm Ross, and I like how the draft goes (he already loves the FA moves), then I give him an extension to mirror Philbin's contract.

After Philbin's 3rd year you'll know if both of them are long term solutions or not and can act accordingly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2013 01:26PM by THE Truth.

when is the stadium vote? cause there is no way in HELL they are going to extend ireland before that if they want any chance of it passing!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> when is the stadium vote? cause there is no way in
> HELL they are going to extend ireland before that
> if they want any chance of it passing!


lololol

I dont agree that it comes down to Philbin, maybe the GM replacement is a Philbin guy who has a relationship with previously.... Maybe Ireland is the hold over from the old way not Philbin....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont agree that it comes down to Philbin, maybe
> the GM replacement is a Philbin guy who has a
> relationship with previously.... Maybe Ireland is
> the hold over from the old way not Philbin....

Whatever. Who can argue with "maybe".

Truth- Now you know my feeling, "whatever" when somebody starts saying Ireland should get an early extension in order to not "pass final judgement" on Philbin... whatever.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The majority of the fun I had in my world was
> > fighting with him.
> >
> * * * * *
> > You know, Truth, that all I ever want to do is
> "right by you."
>
>
> I am starting to get worried here. I am waiting
> for the "you complete me" post next!

Well, just because I come from L.A. doesn't mean that....LOL.

who says if we dump ireland it follows we dump philbin. while not ideal, there's plenty of instances where the HC is in place and the GM is hired. it's preferable to rewarding ireland with a contract extension without seeing whether his "all in" offseason moves prove to have been good ones.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> who says if we dump ireland it follows we dump
> philbin. while not ideal, there's plenty of
> instances where the HC is in place and the GM is
> hired. it's preferable to rewarding ireland with a
> contract extension without seeing whether his "all
> in" offseason moves prove to have been good ones.


Tell that to Lovie Smith. Guy won 10 games this year. Won 10 or more something like 4 out of 6 years ion Chicago. New GM comes in...Owners says give Lovie one more year...GM fires him after Double digit wins.

The problem for Chicago is all they did was waste a year moving onto their new GM's gameplan. What's the point in that?

OR...if you prefer...what if your top GM target doesn't WANT Philbin so you settle for a guy who is willing to keep him.

THEN you are the Jets.

Thanks...but I'll pass.


Odds are that if you bring in another GM he is going to have his own ideas on who he wants to bet his career on OR you are going to have to settle for a lesser quality GM who will hitch his wagon to Philbin. If that's the case... Why not just turn over the GM duties top Philbin?


Philbin is Jeff Ireland's hire. If one goes the other won't be far behind.


Like I told Crowder. I like Philbin. I'm willing to live with Ireland for another year if it means Joe gets a roster ahe wants and a chance to establish himself.

I'm not willing to flush him after two years nor give him the delayed flush by hiring a guy who should have the right to go with what he thinks is best.

lovie smith = dave wannstedt. not a good coach and won some games but his team would've done better with any other coach. not a legit comparison.

is it better to keep a crappy gm for consistentcy sake? NO reason to jump the gun and extend the guy. All he's done so far is spend money (any of us could've done that). let's at least see if his moves work before rewarding him

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lovie smith = dave wannstedt.

You missed the point.

If you are bringing in a new GM you can't saddle him with an un-established HC. You have to let him clean house and start to implement the gameplan he sold you on when you hired him.

Just like head coaches should be allowed to hire guys they believe in as assistants, a GM needs to be able to hire a HC he believes in.

Or do you want a lesser GM like the Jets ended up with because they had to keep their coach, a coach who will likely get fired after this season?


If you are going to take a lesser GM who will keep Philbin then you might as well keep Ireland for the extra year and have them succeed or fail together so when you clean house you don't do it half-assed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2013 04:49PM by THE Truth.

I think at the end of this season we should have a much better idea about Philbin and Ireland... If we dont play well they both are probably out the door, if we play well they both stay, no need to do anything premature, when ultimately the season predicates both their futures and our continuity... If we suck, nobody will care 2 sh*ts about continuity... I am not saying I dont understand your logic, I just dont think it makes sense. To me it is putting the cart in front of the horse for a useless gesture that will make Ross look foolish...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lovie smith = dave wannstedt.
>
> You missed the point.

We lawyers NEVER miss the point, Truth. You just don't understand us properly.