BNF, I think Sean Smith is a specialty CB, against bigger WR, he is an outstanding CB, ie. his game against Larry Fitzgerald this year.. Against smaller shifty fast WR he is not very good.. There are only so many big WR in the NFL, which is why his stats are not very good... Under Nolan, they put Smith on the stud pass catching TE, and he did well, real well. While Sean Smith size is an asset it also seems to be his liability at CB...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Truth- I agree it is not a bad plan to stock pile pass rushers... But honestly our defensive line was top ten. Nothing else on our team was top ten but that area and Thigpen at kickoff returns.. If a Jason Piere Paul falls in our lap at 12 like last time we drafted 12, I would have to agree you shouldn't pass him up or trade back again, however I don't think you target that position with #12...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Of course he's "better" against the bigger, less quick receivers.

Every team we play either has a bigger wr or te we could match smith against -- its not his fault he's not always used in the best way... But that's no reason to let him walk IMO.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think you guys are freaking nuts if you think
> letting a kid like Smith walk is a viable way to
> build a winning team. Are you serious?
>
> I don't give a crap what the stat dweebs say about
> his performance -- the kid has a game that can be
> developed futher and his unique physical package
> is impossible to ignore.
>
> I agree he may not be worth "franchise" money but
> we can't let dudes like him just leave with zero
> compensation -- unless you consider some crappy
> comp pick fair?

So, what has Sean Smith done for us in his 4 years? Has he made our secondary one that teams fear? He had more passes thrown against him this season than any other CB in the league. Does that sound like any team is remotely respectful of his coverage abilities? If he is so much better than Nolan Carroll or Jimmy Wilson, why was he thrown at more than either of them? The best corners don't get thrown at.

We have had losing records 4 years in a row. Keeping all the same guys is clearly not the answer. Some guys need to go. Smith is vastly overrated by many of the fans and some of the media (notably Omar Kelly). Let someone else overpay for him. That is what the good teams do, over and over again. They let their "average" players walk away and get overpaid by someone else. Our secondary has not been good in any of the last 4 years. They don't produce turnovers and they give up too many big plays. Smith is a huge part of those failures.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> STUD TE OR RECEIVER...


Fasano is fine. He was open for a TD and Tannehill over threw him. Then on the very next pass, Tannehill threw a strike to one of our Tomato Can WRs, and he dropped it.

From that series alone, I don't see how we can go anything other than WR. Some O-Line help might be good as well. And maybe Ireland can look at a stud DB and DE or two.

The team is not a total mess. The problem is, the guy tasked with fixing it is not very good at his job.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

We should never trade down unless a team offers us crazy compensation...there is always a player on the board thats worth the pick. Regardless of where you pick. Even if that player is not at an area of immediate need.

As far as Smith goes, we should keep him (should have kept Davis too BTW). He's a good player but our lack of interceptions is directly related to our inability to consistently pressure opposing QB's. When QB's get pressured on every play they start making poor, or rushed throws...that's when turnovers happen.

When you can't get pressure on opposing QB's what happens is what we all saw Sunday...Brady shreds us.

Beyond that we have LB problems...none of them we have currently, can cover a TE, and they often fail to cover RB's. Add to that, the fact that our group also does not pass rush very well...and we have a recipe for more completed passes against us.

Our defense is good enough "as is" for one more year though. Provided we can add enough playmakers on offense to allow us to score more points...18 per game on average, isn't good enough. If we score one more TD every week than we actually did this year...we in all likelihood finish 12-4, instead of 7-9.

Does Smith fit the scheme that Coyle wants to run? (D-Mark, Truth?) if he does then re-sign him at fair market value and hope he improves, if he doesn't, let some other team overpay for his services, pretty simple really. Everyone needs to realize that we're in a re-building mode, it makes no sense to overpay for an underachiever that doesn't really fit the scheme we're trying to run.

As far as the 12th pick, we have enough glaring needs at multiple positions, that we can go in many directions. If there's a run on QBs in the top 10, some top talent should fall to us at a position of need, if not and there's a bunch of equal talent available (when I say equal, I don't mean all at one position either) sitting at 12, and we can trade down, then we should do it. The one scenario no one is talking about, is us trading up in the draft to get a game changer, is anyone gonna fall to the 7 or 8 range that is worth going after?

After watching our last game of the season and seeing how poorly Martin was at LT--he is not the replacement for Long. John Jerry looked like a tub of lard and was unimpressive.

Much of what most of you guys say has merit, but what needs to be done and what can be done, assuming the FO wants to improve play at all positions, is to look at FA, fill one or two key positions with players that are equal to or better than our out going, non-resigned player(s). Then, once those guys are signed, to focus on the 2013 draft to pick a top player at #12. If the #12 is the best TE or DE on the planet, we take him. If's it the best CB or WR around at that point, we take him. If it's a terrific MLB we take him. In essence, we grab playmakers and get them on the team. Thereafter, we draft players that will challenge our first stringers for their job or to upgrade substitute players.

What we must not do is start over with a new O-line or D line. Fine tune it with more athletic playmakers.

FA

Chris Ivory
greg Jennings or Wallace
Jared Cook


Draft

Eric Reid/ Milliner or banks, or Damonte Moore, or Dion Jordan
Ezekial Ansah or best DB TJ McDonald/Amerson/Rambo
Zach Ertz
Best sub 4.5 WR Stedman Bailey, Hopkins, Rogers
best OL Fluker, Fisher, Warford, Uzzi,






One Mock has this which isn't bad:

Dion Jordan
Terrence Williams
Zach Ertz
Leon McFadden
Ryan Swope(not sure unless he runs sub 4.5 40)



We could take Jordan or another DE and then take a TJ McDonald but need to ad a quick productive WR 1-3 unless we land 2 in FA. I think Williams, Bailey, Hunter, Rogers will be avail

Chris Ivory in not a free agent.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Our picks....

1-12
2-42
2-56 (56-64 from Indy)
3-77
3-82

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Smith's great "eye candy" a big DB like a Taylor Mays that in reality isn't that good


Go hard after Dashon Goldson , Jarius Byrd, brent Grimes, William Moore, or Derek Cox from Jacksonville. Cox allows only 6 yds per attempt, or Talib if we think he can keep it together. Time for us to steal from NE

I agree with the Truth, more pass rushers.

DB's do not matter if a QB has all day to throw.... ie see the New England game.

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with the Truth, more pass rushers.
>
> DB's do not matter if a QB has all day to
> throw.... ie see the New England game.

***********************************************

I agree with ya, dolphin, except if a team has a great DB (ala Revis) then that side of the field is a "no worry." The opposing offense will have to concentrate on the other CB, and if we do have some good pass rushers, then that QB is really in trouble.

Long time ago, kept screaming we needed to compliment Cameron Wake and draft Ryan Kerrigan. We didn't do it.

If Manti Teo is there at #12 ( i dont think he will be) do we take him?

The surest way to win in the N F L is to score more points.

That's what a certified purebred franchise coitusback does.

Score more points.

Win more games.

Eat more snapper. Less pork.
Be a vaginal football connoisseur.

Do they have set times when they let you use the computer or are you sneaking into the nurses station?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

the last 2 posts made my day

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Long time ago, kept screaming we needed to
> compliment Cameron Wake and draft Ryan Kerrigan.
> We didn't do it.

Ryan Kerrigan? He's ok but not an upgrade over what we have at DE... besides Pouncey was a better pick IMO. Not many players taken below 15 were better than Pouncey.

As far as pass rushers, Justin Houston would have made a great 3rd round pick that year but we still would have had to trade up from 79 to get him.

It seems as though ireland has the whole "trade up, trade down" thing a little skewed. There would have been nobody good available had we stayed at 79 but he could have gotten Justin Houston or Randall Cobb for the trade up.

The year he traded down for Odrick, he could have stayed and gotten JPP or Earl Thomas (the player I wanted), Maurkice Pouncey or DeMarius Thomas but instead of a superstar we got two solid players. Irelands' MO to the "t".

Instad of Odrick at 28 and Misi at 40, we could have even gotten Rob Gronkowski and Daryl Washington (my other favorite that year)...or even Carlos Dunlap (54), who has been a better DE than Odrick thus far.

He better find some stars this year! No more blue collar plodders.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Long time ago, kept screaming we needed to
> > compliment Cameron Wake and draft Ryan Kerrigan.
>
> > We didn't do it.
>
> Ryan Kerrigan? He's ok but not an upgrade over
> what we have at DE... besides Pouncey was a better
> pick IMO. Not many players taken below 15 were
> better than Pouncey.
>
> As far as pass rushers, Justin Houston would have
> made a great 3rd round pick that year but we still
> would have had to trade up from 79 to get him.
>
> It seems as though ireland has the whole "trade
> up, trade down" thing a little skewed. There would
> have been nobody good available had we stayed at
> 79 but he could have gotten Justin Houston or
> Randall Cobb for the trade up.
>
> The year he traded down for Odrick, he could have
> stayed and gotten JPP or Earl Thomas (the player I
> wanted), Maurkice Pouncey or DeMarius Thomas but
> instead of a superstar we got two solid players.
> Irelands' MO to the "t".
>
> Instad of Odrick at 28 and Misi at 40, we could
> have even gotten Rob Gronkowski and Daryl
> Washington (my other favorite that year)...or even
> Carlos Dunlap (54), who has been a better DE than
> Odrick thus far.
>
> He better find some stars this year! No more blue
> collar plodders.

This is where I think free agency will make or break Ireland. If his tendency is to draft foundation type guys and not playmakers then he needs to find guys in free agency who will provide immediate impact. Without that instant upgrade on offense he's going to be stuck relying on rookies to develop quickly. If that's the path he takes building the offense he won't be here in two years when those guys develop.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Long time ago, kept screaming we needed to
> > compliment Cameron Wake and draft Ryan Kerrigan.
>
> > We didn't do it.
>
> Ryan Kerrigan? He's ok but not an upgrade over
> what we have at DE

RESPONSE: But one cannot ignore THE COMBINATION OF HAVING BOTH Wake, who was one of the league leaders in Sacks (Number 4 with 13 sacks) WITH Ryan Kerrigan who was about 11th with 8.5 sacks (The guy at no. 10 had 9 sacks).

That was why, as I said above, that we should have gotten him to make life a living hell for Brady by having TWO sackmasters.



... besides Pouncey was a better
> pick IMO. Not many players taken below 15 were
> better than Pouncey.

RESPONSE: Good point. On balance, Pouncey may have been worth passing on Ryan but I didn't see ANY OTHER EFFORTS IN THAT DRAFT OR SINCE to find another sack master to compliment Wake.



>
> As far as pass rushers, Justin Houston would have
> made a great 3rd round pick that year but we still
> would have had to trade up from 79 to get him.
>

Again, it's the COMBINATION that makes for an effective pass rush. We just got Wake and said "Case closed."

> It seems as though ireland has the whole "trade
> up, trade down" thing a little skewed. There would
> have been nobody good available had we stayed at
> 79 but he could have gotten Justin Houston or
> Randall Cobb for the trade up.
>
> The year he traded down for Odrick, he could have
> stayed and gotten JPP or Earl Thomas (the player I
> wanted), Maurkice Pouncey or DeMarius Thomas but
> instead of a superstar we got two solid players.
> Irelands' MO to the "t".
>
> Instad of Odrick at 28 and Misi at 40, we could
> have even gotten Rob Gronkowski and Daryl
> Washington (my other favorite that year)...or even
> Carlos Dunlap (54), who has been a better DE than
> Odrick thus far.
>
> He better find some stars this year! No more blue
> collar plodders.

RESPONSE: You don't seriously expect to get an argument from me when someone is pointing out the errors of Ireland.

Now THE Truth on the other hand................

gofinswin1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Manti Teo is there at #12 ( i dont think he
> will be) do we take him?

**************************************************

A few thoughts on that.

When Miami's pick at 12 comes up, is he the guy on top of the Fins' wish list? If so, he is grabbed.

Is Miami looking at the first round for a Middle Linebacker? If so, grab him (but I don't think that's their highest priority).

Is Ireland viewing Dansby and/or Burnett to be leaving soon?

Who is backing those two guys up? If there is no one special there, then it's very possible Teo is taken.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ChyrenB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Long time ago, kept screaming we needed to
> > > compliment Cameron Wake and draft Ryan
> Kerrigan.
> >
> > > We didn't do it.
> >
> > Ryan Kerrigan? He's ok but not an upgrade over
> > what we have at DE... besides Pouncey was a
> better
> > pick IMO. Not many players taken below 15 were
> > better than Pouncey.
> >
> > As far as pass rushers, Justin Houston would
> have
> > made a great 3rd round pick that year but we
> still
> > would have had to trade up from 79 to get him.
> >
> > It seems as though ireland has the whole "trade
> > up, trade down" thing a little skewed. There
> would
> > have been nobody good available had we stayed
> at
> > 79 but he could have gotten Justin Houston or
> > Randall Cobb for the trade up.
> >
> > The year he traded down for Odrick, he could
> have
> > stayed and gotten JPP or Earl Thomas (the player
> I
> > wanted), Maurkice Pouncey or DeMarius Thomas
> but
> > instead of a superstar we got two solid
> players.
> > Irelands' MO to the "t".
> >
> > Instad of Odrick at 28 and Misi at 40, we could
> > have even gotten Rob Gronkowski and Daryl
> > Washington (my other favorite that year)...or
> even
> > Carlos Dunlap (54), who has been a better DE
> than
> > Odrick thus far.
> >
> > He better find some stars this year! No more
> blue
> > collar plodders.
>
> This is where I think free agency will make or
> break Ireland. If his tendency is to draft
> foundation type guys and not playmakers then he
> needs to find guys in free agency who will provide
> immediate impact. Without that instant upgrade on
> offense he's going to be stuck relying on rookies
> to develop quickly. If that's the path he takes
> building the offense he won't be here in two years
> when those guys develop.

*******************************************************

Truth, I honestly believe that Ireland will make two MAJOR FA signings, with maybe a couple more minor ones to help with the competition.

The draft is where he is going to make his mark this year, since Miami has so much cap space and 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. I am sure Ross will be watching and also (probably) have his football expert(s) guiding him on what Ireland is or is not doing.

As I have said on numerous occasions (as have quite a few others) this is Ireland's make-or-break year!

gofinswin1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Manti Teo is there at #12 ( i dont think he will be) do we take him?

I would take him even if his position here is filled. He has too much talent to pass up on. The young man is a serious playmaker, and playmakers is what this team needs to have in order to beat legit opponents. How's this...Would I want our team to face the opponent that has him? Hell no.

I looked into my crystal ball and this is what I saw coming from Ireland...

Ireland will not draft a DE high in the first round because he thinks he has one is Olivier Vernon and wants Coyle to develop him.

Ireland will not draft a WR at 12 because he knows he will take at least one year to become a legitimate weapon. He will sign Jennings or Wallace and draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round. There are no AJ Greens or CJ's in this draft. Last years 1st round WR's did not make a huge impact on their teams. Blackmon taken at 5 had 865 yards but will make the leap next year. Nobody else even came close to that production. Kendall Wright taken at 20 had 626 yards, Michael Floyd taken at 13 had 562 yards.

Ireland will not take an ILB at 12 because it is a luxury pick and he knows the two we have are good enough for now.

He will not take a TE because 12 is too high and he can get one in the second.

He will not take a FS for the same reasons of ILB....good enough.

He will take a CB because right now we have two journeyman CB's of which one will be gone by the contract deadline.

The second option if no CB's grade out at 12 will be an OT.

The question is will he trade away 400 points (a 2nd round pick) to move up for Dee Milliner? Or will he trade down and grab an OT?

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I looked into my crystal ball and this is what I
> saw coming from Ireland...
>
> Ireland will not draft a DE high in the first
> round because he thinks he has one is Olivier
> Vernon and wants Coyle to develop him.
>
> Ireland will not draft a WR at 12 because he knows
> he will take at least one year to become a
> legitimate weapon. He will sign Jennings or
> Wallace and draft a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round.
> There are no AJ Greens or CJ's in this draft. Last
> years 1st round WR's did not make a huge impact on
> their teams. Blackmon taken at 5 had 865 yards but
> will make the leap next year. Nobody else even
> came close to that production. Kendall Wright
> taken at 20 had 626 yards, Michael Floyd taken at
> 13 had 562 yards.
>
> Ireland will not take an ILB at 12 because it is a
> luxury pick and he knows the two we have are good
> enough for now.
>
> He will not take a TE because 12 is too high and
> he can get one in the second.
>
> He will not take a FS for the same reasons of
> ILB....good enough.
>
> He will take a CB because right now we have two
> journeyman CB's of which one will be gone by the
> contract deadline.
>
> The second option if no CB's grade out at 12 will
> be an OT.
>
> The question is will he trade away 400 points (a
> 2nd round pick) to move up for Dee Milliner? Or
> will he trade down and grab an OT?


I think if we stay at 12 it will be a Pass Rusher or an O-lineman.

I think if we trade down to the mid to late 20's we go O-line or TE.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that we stay at #12 and our pick is Chance Warmack, LG from Alabama (or Eric Fisher, OT from C. Mich).

I know its not sexy but that Warmack is a PHENOMENAL LG prospect.

Having him at LG and moving Incognito to RG gives us a ridiculous interior line. It gives us 2 G's who can pull which is vital to our offensive scheme if we want to run the ball effectively.

If we trade Down I think we draft a TE: Zach Ertz from Stanford or Tyler Eiffert from ND.

And I'd be fine with either of those scenarios.