Is it just me, or is Martin playing LT way better than Long has the past 1.5 seasons? Can see the rationale on blowing our cap space on a player who isn't even as good as the guy manning the position now.
I am leaning towards letting Long walk and use his money on other players (a WR and RT? Mike Wallace? etc)

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I agree the OL has played well. John Jerry has been great.

Another reasonably priced FA WR to target that would help is Danny Amendola

Berk, it's probably because Martin is young and healthy. To me it seems that Long has been playing banged up for longer than people have realized. I'd be really surprised if Ireland re-signs him or extends his contract. I don't think he's worth the money he's being paid.

How about some love for BigNasty?

I told you dudes Martin was THE BEST RT on the team weeks ago. LOL.

The first thing that's glaringly obvious is that Martin is a vastly superior fluid athlete than Hermie ever was.

In all honesty I don't think Long can even be a "dominant" RT in the N F L at this point. It's glaringly obvious the OL is NOT missing him at all. Reality is, we're better off without him. And that's how far his "game" has eroded.

Sort of like it was all a mirage...

Humm. Makes ya wonder.

A mirage sums it up nicely BNF. Definitely makes me wonder. Must be nice to be an Atlanta Falcons fan.

and the final F you from Parcells, a broke down cap eating #1 overall O lineman

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

jlyell13 Wrote:
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> I agree the OL has played well. John Jerry has
> been great.
>
> Another reasonably priced FA WR to target that
> would help is Danny Amendola

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Keep in mind that Martin has manned that LT slot against two extremely bad teams, so it's not a true indicator if he is the guy for that spot and to allow Long to walk.

I have said it many times, if Long is willing to stay at the right price, sign him! This way, Miami can keep their OL together and draft other more pressing positions. If he wants a big pay day, then it's time for him to move on.

I don't see how Long is resigned unless he's willing to take a huge cut and compete for the RT spot. Based on the athleticism Martin has demonstrated there's no chance Jake is going to displace him @LT -- soLong is vamoose!

I have to agree with BNF. I don't see a future for Long and there are several complicated reasons.

First, Long is injury prone. That makes him a risk in and of itself.

Secondly, Martin SUCKED at RIGHT tackle and EXCELLED at left tackle.

So if Long comes back, that means either Martin goes back to RT or onto the Bench. Both of which make no sense.

Long certainly won't learn to play RT and if he does, then he won't be good.

And, the world is not coming to an end for us because of the play at Right Tackle now and there is always the free agency market.

I realize that Long was a perennial pro-bowler and if it were not for the injury question, I would be of a different opinion but given that, I don't think it makes sense to do otherwise than let him go.

And, unlike Bush, who I would resign in a heartbeat if we came to terms, I'm not so sure given my first few paragraphs, I would re-sign Jake even if he came way down on his price.

I couldn't figure out why Ireland would go so hard after Andrew Luck's left offensive tackle when we should have instead been going after his Tight End but that's an example of something I differ from BNF on, how good Ireland is.

From Pro Football Focus:

In the 4 games that Martin has played LT, his pass blocking grades are:
NE -2.0
SF -4.7
JAC -0.6
BUF -0.5

In those 4 games, he's allowed 2 sacks, 1 QB hit, and 13 QB hurries. That is 4 "pressure" plays allowed per game.

In the 11 full games that Jake Long played, he allowed 4 sacks, 7 QB hits, and 9 QB hurries. That is less than 2 "pressure" plays per game.


I agree that Martin has played well enough that it is probably a much smarter decision to develop him at LT and use the money for Long elsewhere. I am all for Martin at LT, Garner and Jerry battling at RT, Incognito moving to RG, and getting a more athletic LG. But, it's not accurate to make it seem like Martin has been that good at LT. He's done a great job run blocking over there, but his pass protection has a long way to go.

Personally I can't give much credence to those "stats" because Long was getting abused in certain games play after play, and the only thing that saved him total embarrassment was constant help by Incognito.

To my eye Martin is vastly more fluid as an athlete than Long. Martin has way better feet, agility, balance and recovery.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
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> Personally I can't give much credence to those
> "stats" because Long was getting abused in certain
> games play after play,

I am in favor of letting Long walk, but to say he was getting abused play after play is quite an exaggeration. And surely, you have noticed the additional help Martin has been getting with chip blocks on his side? Something that Long rarely got.

Well, the online looked way better against buff last week than when we played them on Thursday night earlier in the season. We dominated their d line this week. I don't know if it was the personnel or if the bills were just flat. Divisional games are crazy like that

Considering what value you get for the money - The cap hit for Martin's 1st year is only 869K, and he had a 1.9 mil bonus. Compare that to Long's 11.2 salary this year. Only thing he dominates IMO is the highest salary for a Dolphins player.

Him playing with one arm the last two years = I don't think he'll be missed at all on the football field. His prime was short lived, sadly. It was a smart move by Ireland to draft Martin. I knew it was only temporary that he'd be playing right tackle.

Matin's the new LT has looked good in the last 2 games. I think he has it. Even in the SF when he got bull rushed by Smith. Smith was still the 3rd defender to get to Tanneyhill. I think they gave the sack to Smith but Tanney was already being eaten alive by 2 SF defebders by the time Smith got there.

Now we have to get a RT and maybey a new LG.

even if we let Long walk I don't think we need to spend a 1st rounder on an OL. We seem to be in decent shape with Garner at RT, and can sign someone in the offseason (I think Jerry can play there too if we get another G to replace him).

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> even if we let Long walk I don't think we need to
> spend a 1st rounder on an OL. We seem to be in
> decent shape with Garner at RT, and can sign
> someone in the offseason (I think Jerry can play
> there too if we get another G to replace him).

Jerry is probably better suited as a T than G (he has a -6.9 run blocking grade from PFF). And ideally, Richie Incognito would be a RG, not a LG. The LG is the guard that does most of the pulling, and that's not his strong suit. Get a more athletic LG, move Incognito to RG, and re-sign Garner and have him compete with Jerry at RT. I think that's the way to go. Although, Incognito would be expensive for a RG, which is supposedly the easiest position on the line to fill.

The commentators were talking about Incognito during the Buffalo game. They said he was very good at pulling and showed the replay of him doing it. I never really thought of him that way but I guess I could be wrong.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Incognito is the kind of FA I am talking about. We got him off the scrap heap and he has developed into a solid starter. No need to spend more 1st round picks on this line. I like Mark's idea. sign an athletic LG who can pull, and all of the rest of the pieces are already on the roster.
LT-Martin
LG-new player
C-Pouncy
RG-Incog
RT-Garner/Jerry/new player

Let Garner/Jerry have a full offseason at RT and leave everyone else in their spot and let the line gel. Giving Jake Long 20% of our salary cap is just dumb if you look at it this way. Martin will be more than adequate. We do need some depth, however.

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Dang, it's mighty telling how totally soLong has been written off!

Wowser.

I remember a few months ago when I was "all over this subject" and
there were a number of soLong supporters all over me. But now...

Not even a whimper. LOL.

Based on the general vibe you have to believe soLong is absolutely (like the Eagles song) already gone. Funny how quickly some fall out of love! Fans are fickle, or so they say. But I never liked the pick of soLong to begin with (the first installment of Project BIG), so Herman's departure is no biggie to me -- tho the dude seemed to play a positive role in the locker room before his "disintegration."

As far as replacement, it seems viable to solve the equation with a manipulation of our existing talent as the Mark "the stat man" is prescribing. But I also think it's entirely viable for us to grab an OT in R2 if Ireland sees some excellent value. Beyond that, if there's an outstanding athletic G to be had -- that would certainly work.

I think Jerry has been one of the most improved players on the team and perhaps he could hold down RT? Not sure. Though I like his physical size at G, and my eyes tell me his run blocking has improved significantly (once he gets on his dude he tends to smother and control and pretty much get his way). I'm not sure he has the lateral nimbleness that's ideal for RT pass pro. But a fun practice runs against Cam Wake will resolve that question nicely!

Whatever happens, the "disintegration" of soLong's fan base has been just about as catastrophically quick as the collapse of his game.

I am OK with an OL in the 2d or 3d bc we have two picks of each, but not in the first. enough of that. we need to pick players who touch the ball in the first round

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The beatings will continue until morale improves.

We could do this all day. lol. I'm ok with a 2nd round RT. We did pretty well with that last year. Like I said before, I want to see a trade down so we walk away with Tyler Eifert and Terrance Williams. Add a FA WR to the mix and we are a different offense all of the sudden.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

The intervening fact that he went out with a season ending injury might have had a little to do with it, BNF. As I remember, the question was about his performance despite the fact that he had made the pro bowl the prior year.

He is already Long gone in my opinion.

Jonathan Twilley Wrote:
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> He is already Long gone in my opinion.

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Again, only if his asking price is ridiculous.

captkoi Wrote:
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> Jonathan Twilley Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > He is already Long gone in my opinion.
>
> ***********************************************
>
> Again, only if his asking price is ridiculous.

Anything even close to what he's making now IS ridiculous.