Martin and Garner are both getting abused today.

Martin just did Jake Long a favor today in a big way.. Random NfL twitter feeds were making fun of Martin today for getting bullrushed by a CB... I agree Dolfanmark our OTs looked real bad today and not like the answer for the future at those positions...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Long's value to the Dolphins went up a couple of notches today. There is no way he'll get close to what he's making now, but I bet they aren't so quick to slam the door on his return after today. That was as poor pass protection as we have seen in quite some time. And to a team not known for it's pass rush. And it was just the tackles. The interior of the line got abused today, especially Jerry.

This coaching staff wants a more mobile, athletic line. Don't be surprised to see big changes here. Outside of Pouncey and Martin, no one is safe.

BUT Mark, if Martin is safe, that presents a problem as to WHERE Martin plays. He sucked BIG TIME AT RIGHT TACKLE.

So if LONG COMES BACK, where does Martin go???????????

Martin has some work to do. He is not a sure thing from what I saw today and a few other games.

They were all getting man handled by undrafted rookies and backup players. NE defense is not that good.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BUT Mark, if Martin is safe, that presents a
> problem as to WHERE Martin plays. He sucked BIG
> TIME AT RIGHT TACKLE.
>
> So if LONG COMES BACK, where does Martin
> go???????????


Martin is safe because of his draft status, and his smarts and athleticism. He'll have a full offseason to get stronger, which is something he needs badly. He is easily bull-rushed, and that needs to get fixed.

If a team that can't protect their QB, like the Bears or Lions, wants Long, then he is going to get too much money for us to match it. But, if he would sign for $5-6M a year, you could bring him back and play him at RT. I don't think that's likely to happen at all. But, a lot of people thought Long's ultimate future was as a dominant RT, and he may be headed there sooner than anyone thought.

Well, first of all. You misinterpret me. When I said where does Martin go, I never meant he would leave the team. I meant where would we play him. So that is to the FIRST part of your answer, Mark.

As to the second part, I don't think that Long would want to play RT or that he would be as good at RT as who we are playing now.

Long is gone and that's all there is to it.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, first of all. You misinterpret me. When I
> said where does Martin go, I never meant he would
> leave the team. I meant where would we play him.
> So that is to the FIRST part of your answer,
> Mark.
>
> As to the second part, I don't think that Long
> would want to play RT or that he would be as good
> at RT as who we are playing now.
>

You don't think Long would be as good at RT as Nate Garner? Did you not see Nate Garner do his best Marc Colombo impersonation today? Long's weakness has always been speed rushers, and you see a lot less of them playing RT. Long would probably excel at RT. But, he's probably not ready to accept that yet, at this point in his career.

Yes, Martin has looked more fluid at LT than he has at RT. And it's particularly true with regard to his run blocking. But, while everyone has been caught up in this hoopla about Martin, they've ignored the fact that he has not been good at LT. Coming into the Pats game, he had allowed 15 disruption plays in 4 games. By comparison, Long had only allowed 20 in 10 games. And Martin's numbers are going to look a lot worse once yesterday's game is added in. People see what they want to see. But, Martin needs to improve dramatically to be a good LT in this league. Dramatically.

No matter what we do with Martin, it's obvious that Long will have to take a pay cut for us to keep him, I dont see that happening, like someone said, a team like the Bears will overpay for him and you cant blame Jake for taking the best deal possible.

I thought martin was better than long.....?

that goes for all the geiniuses that want jake long out of this team.

LISTEN AND LISTEN GOOD: You dont know that old saying you do not know what you got until you lose it.

"You don't know what you got till it's gone. They paved paradise and put up a parking lot." -Joni Mitchel-

Martin was a great pick. Hopefully Ireland has realized that the place to pick key O-Line is is the second round, and others in the 3rd or 4th. First round is for the skill players and key defensive positions.

Ireland should be fired by now, but he really needs to go if he picks another Offensive Lineman in the first round.

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Yes, I agree DolfanKing that Martin was a great pick. Those who point out the games in which he was getting "abused" also must note that it was against some of the best pass rushers in the conference.

No matter how good a rookie is, he is likely to be beaten by great players in his first year.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I agree DolfanKing that Martin was a great
> pick. Those who point out the games in which he
> was getting "abused" also must note that it was
> against some of the best pass rushers in the
> conference.
>
> No matter how good a rookie is, he is likely to be
> beaten by great players in his first year.

Oh yea. Martin definitely learned and grew.

And how did Jake Long do against some of the best pass rushers - that is, when he wasn't on the sideline?

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Chyren, on one of my NFL twitter feeds the reporter put Martin on blast yesterday by calling him out, saying When an OT gets bullrushed for a sack by a CB that is bad, I am talking to you Jonathan Martin #Dolphins
Last time I checked CB are not considered elite pass rushers and shouldn't be getting away with a bull rush on our LT..

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chyren, on one of my NFL twitter feeds the
> reporter put Martin on blast yesterday by calling
> him out, saying When an OT gets bullrushed for a
> sack by a CB that is bad, I am talking to you
> Jonathan Martin #Dolphins
> Last time I checked CB are not considered elite
> pass rushers and shouldn't be getting away with a
> bull rush on our LT..


This is completely a balance thing - something the Patriots excel at. The CB obviously took Martin off guard and he made a rookie mistake. I'm OK with this... At this point, I'm WAY more worried about how Martin looks against big men and how he handles movement on the D-Line. He does that quite well. He will learn how to make CBs pay for that kind of crap.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

Precisely.

Crowder, it's kinda funny when DolfanKing and I, who have so heavily criticized Ireland are defending one of his top picks.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, first of all. You misinterpret me. When
> I
> > said where does Martin go, I never meant he
> would
> > leave the team. I meant where would we play
> him.
> > So that is to the FIRST part of your answer,
> > Mark.
> >
> > As to the second part, I don't think that Long
> > would want to play RT or that he would be as
> good
> > at RT as who we are playing now.
> >
>
> You don't think Long would be as good at RT as
> Nate Garner? Did you not see Nate Garner do his
> best Marc Colombo impersonation today? Long's
> weakness has always been speed rushers, and you
> see a lot less of them playing RT. Long would
> probably excel at RT. But, he's probably not ready
> to accept that yet, at this point in his career.
>
> Yes, Martin has looked more fluid at LT than he
> has at RT. And it's particularly true with regard
> to his run blocking. But, while everyone has been
> caught up in this hoopla about Martin, they've
> ignored the fact that he has not been good at LT.
> Coming into the Pats game, he had allowed 15
> disruption plays in 4 games. By comparison, Long
> had only allowed 20 in 10 games. And Martin's
> numbers are going to look a lot worse once
> yesterday's game is added in. People see what they
> want to see. But, Martin needs to improve
> dramatically to be a good LT in this league.
> Dramatically.

*************************************************

Well guys, as far as Long not wanting to play RT....he is a smart guy. If his injuries are as serious as everyone thinks they are, and he realizes that, (i.e., continuous) then I could see Long accepting the RT position. However, if he even thinks about those injuries but other teams are willing to pay him big bucks at the LT position, then he is gone. I highly doubt he will help his career by remaining at LT, but we will just have to wait and see.

I still say if he is willing to resign with Miami at a reasonable price, then do so. If not, see ya.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought martin was better than long.....?
>
> that goes for all the geiniuses that want jake
> long out of this team.
>
> LISTEN AND LISTEN GOOD: You dont know that old
> saying you do not know what you got until you lose
> it.

********************************************************

Sam, I really don't think anyone on this board is calling for Long to get out of Dodge. We all realize because of injuries that his skills have diminished greatly and isn't close to what he was. Is he still a good LT? Yes, but no longer great and worth what he is making right now and what he may be asking for soon.

We all still wish for his return as "good" RTs are hard to come by, but again, his asking price will determine his future with Miami.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought martin was better than long.....?
> >
> > that goes for all the geiniuses that want jake
> > long out of this team.
> >
> > LISTEN AND LISTEN GOOD: You dont know that old
> > saying you do not know what you got until you
> lose
> > it.
>
> **************************************************
> ******
>
> Sam, I really don't think anyone on this board is
> calling for Long to get out of Dodge. We all
> realize because of injuries that his skills have
> diminished greatly and isn't close to what he was.
> Is he still a good LT? Yes, but no longer great
> and worth what he is making right now and what he
> may be asking for soon.
>
> We all still wish for his return as "good" RTs are
> hard to come by, but again, his asking price will
> determine his future with Miami.

Fair enough capkoi....It will all depend on the asking price.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > samsam3738 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I thought martin was better than long.....?
> > >
> > > that goes for all the geiniuses that want
> jake
> > > long out of this team.
> > >
> > > LISTEN AND LISTEN GOOD: You dont know that
> old
> > > saying you do not know what you got until you
> > lose
> > > it.
> >
> >
> **************************************************
>
> > ******
> >
> > Sam, I really don't think anyone on this board
> is
> > calling for Long to get out of Dodge. We all
> > realize because of injuries that his skills
> have
> > diminished greatly and isn't close to what he
> was.
> > Is he still a good LT? Yes, but no longer
> great
> > and worth what he is making right now and what
> he
> > may be asking for soon.
> >
> > We all still wish for his return as "good" RTs
> are
> > hard to come by, but again, his asking price
> will
> > determine his future with Miami.
>
> Fair enough capkoi....It will all depend on the
> asking price.

********************************************

I meant "LT."