Hartline broke 1000 yards for the season for the first time in his career and I believe only the 8th Dolphin to achieve that mark.

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

I thought this was about him sportin a 70's porn-stache AND still dating a hottie

Pretty good for a WR that has not talent, can't get deep, isn't good enough... blah blah blah.

Awesome! It helps that he finally got someone to throw him the ball but that doesn't take away from the fact he is really an underated talent. This preseason I thought he was going to be a No Show. He missed the whole Pre season and came out of the gates running.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

What Hartline accomplished is great, however.....

One TD out of all that; not good!

As I said, his 1,000 yard season (with 2 more games to go) is great, but Miami needs a receiver that can get into the end zone.

His contract is up after this season -- I say resign him to a good contract. Don't get crazy on the numbers, although I believe Ireland will not sign him for the big bucks, anyway. If he had scored more than one TD, then I could see him having the upper hand, but that is not the case.

Hopefully, he stays with Miami and becomes that number 2 guy (which is saying Miami finally got that number one guy either thru FA or the draft).

Again, congrats to Brian.

Hartline playing along with a Nat Moore in his prime or a Mark Duper would be a hard combination to stop. As it is, by himself........

Hartline is going to fall into that 5 mil to 6 mil a year deal. He is not in the top of the 2013 free agent WR's but he is probably the best one in the second tier.

Some of the big name guys will be looking for 9-10 mil a year deals. I hope Ireland can resign him to something reasonable as well as sign one of those 9-10 mil a year WR's.

Brandon Marshal made 9.46 mil a year (when he was here). Antonio Brown just signed an 8.5 mil a year deal and Mike Wallace turned down a 10 mil a year deal because of the signing bonus numbers.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Really only 1 TD out of 1000 yds? That is troubling and does explain why we havn't won more games. Guess he is a great reciver in the middle, but the red Zone is where we seperate the men from the boys.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
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> Really only 1 TD out of 1000 yds? That is
> troubling and does explain why we havn't won more
> games. Guess he is a great reciver in the middle,
> but the red Zone is where we seperate the men from
> the boys.

****************************************************

Let me preface my post by saying I didn't see the game.

The lack of TDs by Brian is twofold, and I am basing this on what I have read and heard. RT has missed him on a few plays where Brian beat the D deep. I also read where in this game (vs Jax) Brian dropped one in the end zone.

This needs to be cleared up before Miami can have any success.

Hopefully, RT can work with ALL his receivers during the off season and go into next season very confident of what can happen.

With the exception of Marshall, we have not thrown TDs to WRs in the redzone for years. Even when Pennington was the starter, most of the TDs went to the TEs. Look at Bess's and Hartline's career numbers, and there are very few TDs, regardless of the QB. Why is that? Neither is particular good in the red zone. In the red zone, you either need size/strength, or the ability to separate quickly. We don't have any receivers who fit that bill. I'm a big Hartline fan, and was one of the few people here who kept saying that he could produce if given the chance. But, if you notice, on underneath routes, he gets very little separation, and usually makes catches with the defender draped all over him. In the redzone, that issue is magnified. Hartline has sneaky speed and can get behind defenders. But, getting open quickly underneath is not his strong suit.

The only problem I see in what you said, dolfanmark, "we have not thrown TDs to WRs in the endzone for years" is....

If you recall, Marshall dropped at least five of them in the endzone last year.

Where would Miami have gone if he had caught those passes?

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Where would Miami have gone if he had caught those
> passes?

I f marshall caught all those passes Its very likely we'd have endd up far enough down in the draft order that we'd have missed the playoffs and missed out on drafting Tannehill.

Ha! Ha! And we might have had to settle for Russell Wilson.

Or they could have went and signed Matt flynn or Alex Smith and we would be in the same situation we have been the last 12 yrs. You don't get elite signing back ups.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only problem I see in what you said,
> dolfanmark, "we have not thrown TDs to WRs in the
> endzone for years" is....
>
> If you recall, Marshall dropped at least five of
> them in the endzone last year.
>
> Where would Miami have gone if he had caught those
> passes?


I did precede it by saying Marshall was the exception.

2007- 7 TD passes to WRs (none had more than 2)
2008- 5 TD passes to WRs (none had more than 2)
2009- 6 TD passes to WRs (Hartline had 3)
2010- 10 TD passes to WRs (including Marshall, and Bess had 5!)
2011- 10 TD passes to WRS (including Marshall, who had 6)
2012- 3 TD passes to WRS (none with more than 1)

That is 6 years, and if you exclude Marshall, we have 32 TD passes to other WRs. It's horrible, even including Marshall. And it's not something new.

I have to think that the issue with our WR's not getting TD's is the inability to get separation. Sure they do it on occasion but there are probably many issues that affect this...

For instance, a few of the long passes Hartline has caught have been when Tannehill was under pressure and didn't really step into the throws. Hartline didn't catch the balls in stride and had to adjust. Several were back shoulder throws where that puts the DB between the WR and the end zone. He is also usually double covered with the Safety rolling to his side.

RT can work on this in the off season....(timing) but he will need to get someone other than Hartline to work with....assuming we resign Hartline.

Fasano is the only red zone threat we have but he is no threat on the seam routes.

I don't see Clay creating the huge mismatches that have been advertised. He just doesn't have the speed to outrun safeties and CB's even if he does hold an advantage in size.

Bess isn't out-running anyone to make long TD catches and he isn't big enough in the red zone to catch the fade or quick enough to get enough separation on quick slants ala Welker.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or they could have went and signed Matt flynn or
> Alex Smith and we would be in the same situation
> we have been the last 12 yrs. You don't get elite
> signing back ups.

You're right. Given the mindset of Ireland, it was 1) Peyton 2) Flynn and 3) Tannehill.

But by the same token, Peyton and Flynn had rejected us by the time that the draft came around and I'm not sure Alex Smith would have come with us had we offered or made overtures.

But knowing us, in the final analysis, we probably would have never drafted Russell Wilson in the first place.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Or they could have went and signed Matt flynn
> or
> > Alex Smith and we would be in the same
> situation
> > we have been the last 12 yrs. You don't get
> elite
> > signing back ups.
>
> You're right. Given the mindset of Ireland, it
> was 1) Peyton 2) Flynn and 3) Tannehill.
>
> But by the same token, Peyton and Flynn had
> rejected us by the time that the draft came around
> and I'm not sure Alex Smith would have come with
> us had we offered or made overtures.
>
> But knowing us, in the final analysis, we probably
> would have never drafted Russell Wilson in the
> first place.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Or they could have went and signed Matt flynn
> > or
> > > Alex Smith and we would be in the same
> > situation
> > > we have been the last 12 yrs. You don't get
> > elite
> > > signing back ups.
> >
> > You're right. Given the mindset of Ireland, it
> > was 1) Peyton 2) Flynn and 3) Tannehill.
> >
> > But by the same token, Peyton and Flynn had
> > rejected us by the time that the draft came
> around
> > and I'm not sure Alex Smith would have come
> with
> > us had we offered or made overtures.
> >
> > But knowing us, in the final analysis, we
> probably
> > would have never drafted Russell Wilson in the
> > first place.

******************************************************

Peyton rejected us, yes, but he never really gave Miami a fair shot.

Flynn, to my understanding, didn't reject us; Miami rejected him by not offering him the amount of money he thought he deserved and thought he was in the market for. Miami had an interest in him because of the relationship he had with Philbin in Green Bay. They brought him in for a workout, and evidently weren't that impressed.

I am quite confident Ireland had his sights set on Tanney, but he was also aware there was no guarantee he could get him. I also believe Ireland publicly stated (after drafting Tanney) that he is the guy they had in mind for their first pick all along.

Wilson? I am sure you are correct in the assumption that Miami would not have taken Wilson, especially at the #8 spot. I don't think any NFL team would have done so. He has proven this year that the draft experts were wrong about him. But, so have a lot of other QBs throughout the years.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ChyrenB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Or they could have went and signed Matt
> flynn
> > > or
> > > > Alex Smith and we would be in the same
> > > situation
> > > > we have been the last 12 yrs. You don't get
> > > elite
> > > > signing back ups.
> > >
> > > You're right. Given the mindset of Ireland,
> it
> > > was 1) Peyton 2) Flynn and 3) Tannehill.
> > >
> > > But by the same token, Peyton and Flynn had
> > > rejected us by the time that the draft came
> > around
> > > and I'm not sure Alex Smith would have come
> > with
> > > us had we offered or made overtures.
> > >
> > > But knowing us, in the final analysis, we
> > probably
> > > would have never drafted Russell Wilson in
> the
> > > first place.
>
> **************************************************
> ****
>
> Peyton rejected us, yes, but he never really gave
> Miami a fair shot.
>
> Flynn, to my understanding, didn't reject us;
> Miami rejected him by not offering him the amount
> of money he thought he deserved and thought he was
> in the market for. Miami had an interest in him
> because of the relationship he had with Philbin in
> Green Bay. They brought him in for a workout, and
> evidently weren't that impressed.


According to what was reported at the time Cap you are exactly right.

They made an offer to Flynn of backup money (similar to what Moore is getting now) with a chance to compete for the starting job.

He took the better offer from Seattle.

So while he didn't accept our offer, it wasn't a comparable offer to what he got from the Seahawks.



>
> I am quite confident Ireland had his sights set on
> Tanney, but he was also aware there was no
> guarantee he could get him. I also believe
> Ireland publicly stated (after drafting Tanney)
> that he is the guy they had in mind for their
> first pick all along.


Right again.


>
> Wilson? I am sure you are correct in the
> assumption that Miami would not have taken Wilson,
> especially at the #8 spot. I don't think any NFL
> team would have done so. He has proven this year
> that the draft experts were wrong about him. But,
> so have a lot of other QBs throughout the years.

I'm not sure we'd have drafted Wilson either but I'm prtty certain we'd have taken him our Cousins in the 2nd round if we didn't get a QB in the first.

captkoi Wrote:

>
> Peyton rejected us, yes, but he never really gave
> Miami a fair shot.
>
> Flynn, to my understanding, didn't reject us;
> Miami rejected him by not offering him the amount
> of money he thought he deserved and thought he was
> in the market for. Miami had an interest in him
> because of the relationship he had with Philbin in
> Green Bay. They brought him in for a workout, and
> evidently weren't that impressed.
>
> I am quite confident Ireland had his sights set on
> Tanney, but he was also aware there was no
> guarantee he could get him. I also believe
> Ireland publicly stated (after drafting Tanney)
> that he is the guy they had in mind for their
> first pick all along.
>
> Wilson? I am sure you are correct in the
> assumption that Miami would not have taken Wilson,
> especially at the #8 spot. I don't think any NFL
> team would have done so. He has proven this year
> that the draft experts were wrong about him. But,
> so have a lot of other QBs throughout the years.


Manning was clearly Ross' first choice. Ross wanted to make a splash to try and get someone who could sell tickets. But, Manning never seriously considered Miami a possible destination.

We low-balled Flynn and were only willing to offer him a chance to compete for the starting job.

It was well known that Ireland was enamored with Tannehill since his junior season. People don't think this all happened by coincidence, right? The hiring of Philbin and Sherman, and drafting of Tannehill?

I doubt Wilson would have been on Miami's draft board. Ireland was groomed by Parcells, and is big on the "prototype for the position." And the one time Parcells strayed from that (Pat White), it was a disaster. Wilson's height would have kept him off our radar.

In this case it is on the QB. The WR have been open often and would have been in the endzone if not for the QB missing them.

Now you are just making shit up.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now you are just making shit up.


No no no eesti. dolphin watched the games on TV, the single WORST way to watch, study and evaluate an NFL receiving corps, so he MUST know more than the analysts who watch game film and comment on how slow our WR's are, how they struggle to get open and how small the windows Tannehill has to throw through are.


Tannehill has certainly missed his share of throws this year, but this need to pump up our OBVIOUSLY substandard/crappy receiving corps just to tear down Tannehill smacks of being a troll.

So in other words...he was just making shit up.

To further your point, you hardly ever get to see the receivers on regular TV unless the ball is thrown to them. The camera does not show why the ball was not throw to them...(they were not open)

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In this case it is on the QB. The WR have been
> open often and would have been in the endzone if
> not for the QB missing them.

hahaha....the phins wrs are slow as molases...And do not scare anybody.

Why dont you ask yourself why this is the first time hartline has hit the trip zero digit mark...1000...

Maybe the real deal tannehill had something to do with it.

and without a running game or great Oline.